Which had more revolutionary impact: Glock or Colt 1911?

MachIVshooter said:

And not to play grammar cop, but one of my pet peeves is the misuse of the word "myriad"; It means 10,000, and shouldn't have "a" before or "of" after. I know it's common today (even recognized), but that doesn't make it right

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Not to play grammar cop, but I learned in third grade not to start sentences with "and" or "but". I know it's common today (even recognized), but that doesn't make it right.

The two have been differently influential since their inception, and taken together are probably the two most influential semi-auto handguns still.

After all, the OP didn't ask us to choose between a 3rd generation S&W and SA XD.

It depends on what one needs a gun to do. For me, it's last resort SD/HD first, range plinking second, barbecue oohs and ahs a distant third.

Give a great shooter the best classic 1911 (i.e., a single stack) that money can buy. Give a box-stock Glock 21 (or just about any other polymer double-stack .45) to another great shooter.

Run a timed drill, 10 targets at 25 yards and closing, simulating incoming assailants. First guy to hit all targets wins.

This doesn't prove a winner for the poll, but it tells me which of the two firearms I want to carry.

fatcat4620 said:

I was pointing out that a luger in .45ACP competed against the 1911 for service pistol contract. If luger had won then today the 1911 would be a relic of the past like his previous designs.

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Isn't that particular pistol one of two made, the other being destroyed? If memory serves me, it's also one of the most valuable handguns in the world.

beatledog7 said:

The two have been differently influential since their inception, and taken together are probably the two most influential semi-auto handguns still.

After all, the OP didn't ask us to choose between a 3rd generation S&W and SA XD.

It depends on what one needs a gun to do. For me, it's last resort SD/HD first, range plinking second, barbecue oohs and ahs a distant third.

Give a great shooter the best classic 1911 (i.e., a single stack) that money can buy. Give a box-stock Glock 21 (or just about any other polymer double-stack .45) to another great shooter.

Run a timed drill, 10 targets at 25 yards and closing, simulating incoming assailants. First guy to hit all targets wins.

This doesn't prove a winner for the poll, but it tells me which of the two firearms I want to carry.

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Sadly, the Glock shooter would win if his opponent is using a "classic" 1911 to hit 10 targets. Think about it.

Sadly, the Glock shooter would win if his opponent is using a "classic" 1911 to hit 10 targets. Think about it.

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Yes, that was my point.

beatledog7 said:

Yes, that was my point.

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Wasn't being frank, was agreeing. As much as I hate to admit, ability to carry more ammo on itself gives the Glock an edge. But, all things being equal, give me 8 targets and I will hit them faster and more accurately with a 1911. Glock grips suck, and that "you can train yourself to like it" jazz doesn't sit well with me. The 1911 has been spawned under different names for many years since patent expiration. What's been influenced, manufacturer-wise, by a Glock? The S&W Sigma?

Another fair comparison lies with the guns ability to be maintained and repaired. Take 10 1911's from the same maker and 10 G17's, take them all apart and mix em up real good and put them back together and fire 500 rds from each gun. Which ones will have fewer functional problems?

No, I don't! Frankly the 1911 was never revolutionary, and certainly nowhere near the revolutionary status of the G-17 pistol.

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Laugh out loud at this. I am not a Glock hater at all but to say that the 1911 was not revolutionary is a ridiculous statement.

OK, I'm going to have to wade into the mire here with a question.
I've heard a few of you say that before Glock came along, there was no such thing as a reliable, out of the box, semi auto.
Nobody has questioned this, as though it were the Gospel truth. But here's the thing, there was: Sig p226 (and several other Sigs), S&W 3rd gen autos, Ruger P85, Beretta 92, CZ75, etc....
Yes, they were all metal guns, but AFAIK, they all enjoyed reputations for reliability and they all preceded Glock. In fact, several off that list even competed in the military trials to replace the 1911 as the primary sidearm of our military.

So I'm just curious if those of you who say "before Glock came along, there was no such thing as a reliable, out of the box," have taken those other pistols into account.

The Glock, which has a little 1911 in it, was highly revolutionary, so much so that it chased Colt out of the defensive pistol market entirely, and damn near destroyed S&W, virtually obsoleting S&W's 3rd gen autos overnight.

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Reality does not reflect this claim at all. The 3rd gens weren't even around when the Glock was introduced, and when they were brough to market in 1988 (4506) and 1990 (5906, 4006), they sold a ton of them to LEAs, despite being significantly more expensive than the Glock. They remained in a very large number of police officer's holsters until very recently, being replaced by the M&P just as often as by a Glock.

As for Colt, they never really had much of a foothold in the defensive handgun market to begin with.

".... where to start. Do you even know how a1911 works?"

Sure, you put the bullets in the clip and pull the thingy and they shoot out the end. Right?



John

Locked breach delay blowback was a JMB invention without which most of the centerfire autoloading handguns today would not exist, save for low pressure rounds like 9x18. Even though I'm not a huge fan of the 1911 in today's world, I think the answer to this poll is sort of obvious to all, but the most ardent Glock fanboys.

Glocks and JMB's tilting barrel.

http://books.google.com/books?id=CV...EwBw#v=onepage&q=glock tilting barrel&f=false

From the link, on Page 17 of The Gun Digest Book of the Glock By Patrick Sweeney:

"Gaston Glock knew he had to use one of the variations of the Browning tilt-barrel locking system..."

The 1911 IMHO...Glock should thank it for keeping the American soil intact so they could start a factory here in the first place.

I wonder how many glock lovers have ever read the Book written by Paul M Barrett. I think his (G. Glock's) comments and feelings about American gun owners will surprise you.

Without a doubt 1911. Time tested. True. HISTORY IS THE HARSHEST OF JUDGES

The 1911 can be described as evolutionary and even legendary, but I don't see how its revolutionary.

The 1911 is another way to shoot multiple self contained metallic cartridges in a handgun. It wasn't the first handgun to do so.

An example of a revolutionary change in firearms was the transition from cap and ball to self contained metallic cartridges.

There have been very few revolutionary changes in firearms.

If the 1911 shot caseless ammo or laser beams, that would be revolutionary.

The 1911 and Glock were not the first of their kind, but they both were revolutionary in ushering in new respective eras in their time and successfully engineered pioneering concepts that have made them both timeless.

Locked breach delay blowback was a JMB invention without which most of the centerfire autoloading handguns today would not exist, save for low pressure rounds like 9x18.

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He invented the tilt action for pistols. But there were many other locked or delayed blowback actions used in both pistols and rifles before JMB came along. Ironically, the 1911 never became very popular in foreign countries or LE. The US military was one of the biggest users. And now they rely on the Beretta which doesn't use the Browning tilt mechanism.

Most cite the 1911's tilting barrel delayed blowback operation as their reason for choosing it as being most revolutionary.

Can someone more up on the matter chime in and answer the question "was it the first"?

I'm thinking it's not, that that distinction goes to one of the earlier colt models.

John Wayne would never use a Glock!

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John Wayne was an actor who never fired a shot in combat. Far more 1911's have been used to shoot people in movies than in real life. Real people, who depend on real guns to protect themselves from real bad guys choose Glock by a very wide margin.

Guys who like to go to the range and shoot at targets and pretend they are John Wayne choose the 1911.

jmr40 said:

John Wayne was an actor who never fired a shot in combat. Far more 1911's have been used to shoot people in movies than in real life. Real people, who depend on real guns to protect themselves from real bad guys choose Glock by a very wide margin.

Guys who like to go to the range and shoot at targets and pretend they are John Wayne choose the 1911.

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Minus the John Wayne talk, how is any of this statement substantiated? How wide a margin, and where are you pulling these numbers from, because as far as this thread is concerned, there is no margin.
Folks who like to throw bullets around like a John Woo movie choose Glocks. There, now we're being subjective.

how is any of this statement substantiated? How wide a margin, and where are you pulling these numbers from, because as far as this thread is concerned, there is no margin.

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I think if you look at most of what jmr40 says you will quickly see most of his statements are ridiculous.

Agree /\/\/\/\/\/\

"Guys who like to go to the range and shoot at targets and pretend they are John Wayne choose the 1911."

When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

357 Terms said:

I think if you look at most of what jmr40 says you will quickly see most of his statements are ridiculous.

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Well, I apologize if I come across as abrasive, but I do not appreciate unsubstantiated data from my peers. I do not agree that there is a margin at all between the two arms listed. They both have pros and cons, neither being massive enough to establish a "margin". Sales are both high, ergos are opinion based, cost is also up to the buyer as both can be had for as cheap or as high as you'd like. It's a fanboy's theatre here.