THe "experts" being interviewed

Trent · Jul 22, 2012

There is a line from an old song that my dearly departed uncle used to like to quote; "the hypnotized never lie"..

Remember to understand the other side before raising yourself to a frenzy over "statistics and facts."

If you spend the time to understand their position (and I mean REALLY understand it, not just pay lip service to the fact), you gain a deeper understanding and can carry the day in an argument.

Example; they are talking about people who have died, and are very emotional over it. They don't *understand* why this sort of thing happens. They will blame everything. If it were a bus crash, they'd be looking at the tire construction. When the brakes were last serviced. Whether the driver was under the influence. And so on, and on.

In this case, there is NO GOOD REASON why someone would shoot up a crowd of innocents. In lack of rational explanation (there is none; ever), people will REACH for answers to their questions, even if the lines of conclusion they draw are not clearly connected!

Stand strong to the convictions you held last week. Those are still 100% valid, and more well thought out than you may realize. Don't get down in the mud and start slinging.

GEM · Jul 22, 2012

Well, listening to some of the behavioral/legal experts can be disheartening. If someone is a repeat media expert - they usually are PR clowns.

I heard a big deal profiler totally screw up the insanity defense. Reporters and cops and legislators totally not understanding the AWB for what it actually was and what it did.

I did a good psych. expert on CNN. The person was a relative of a staffer and not one of the usual. I think that if they find someone who isn't media clown, they might know something. But ask the police chief or some psychiatrist who looks like a movie star with the right hair - and you usually get an idiot.

italy4nra · Jul 22, 2012

BK said:
The news reports are starting to really make me sick. Here is a web poll from one Denver station. Note how they try and sell you on the answer you should submit.

73% say NO, it should not be illegal.

je je.

Mt Shooter · Jul 22, 2012

Paging Massad Ayoob, please get on Internet, TV, & Radio to get some facts, truth, and sanity into this issue. Thank you.

P.M. him he is a member here or would you rather send him an email? Send pm and will provide.

Coop45 · Jul 22, 2012

Fear=Ratings=Money

B!ngo · Jul 22, 2012

Time to start sending pics of AR's with wooden stocks and forearms to these kinds of folks. I suspect it would really twist their view of what is good and bad.
B

Gtimothy · Jul 22, 2012

This is just another tragedy that the Anti's can't let go to waste! The thing that gets me is the media is so quick to put the blame on the gun and not the COMPLETELY INSANE EVIL CRIMINAL NUTCASE who did the deed!

I'm tired of the continual coverage on this and think it's about time we got back to important things like making sure that our country survives the next few months to the election!

allaroundhunter · Jul 22, 2012

COMPLETELY INSANE EVIL CRIMINAL NUTCASE

The sad thing is, it is becoming clear that he was not clinically insane. The level of premeditation and organization shows the exact opposite. Evil? Without a doubt. Lost? Yep. Insane? I don't think so.

HOOfan_1 · Jul 22, 2012

Liberation said:
The biggest mistake is the AR-15 has no civilian purpose and is purely a military weapon.

The AR-15 was designed first as sporting rifle, problem was it was so good it became a good military rifle.

What does it matter? This "you don't need that for hunting" campaign by the antis is the absolute dumbest argument they have come up with.

The Second Amendment says NOTHING about hunting. It says

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The biggest contributor to the Bill of Rights had this to say

James Madison Federalist Paper #46 said:
Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops.

So it is pretty evident that the people are meant to be able to protect themselves against their own government.

Of course the antis counter that protecting oneself from their government is an outdated concept in the United States. Their ignorance and shortsightedness is astounding. To them Gun owners are all nut jobs and the NRA is an evil lobby. But those who want to completely abolish the Second Amendment are perfectly rational and anti-gun lobbies like the Brady Campaign are angelic organizations. The utter hypocrisy makes me SICK.

stanmo · Jul 22, 2012

There is a line from an old song that my dearly departed uncle used to like to quote; "the hypnotized never lie"..

Remember to understand the other side before raising yourself to a frenzy over "statistics and facts."

If you spend the time to understand their position (and I mean REALLY understand it, not just pay lip service to the fact), you gain a deeper understanding and can carry the day in an argument.

Example; they are talking about people who have died, and are very emotional over it. They don't *understand* why this sort of thing happens. They will blame everything. If it were a bus crash, they'd be looking at the tire construction. When the brakes were last serviced. Whether the driver was under the influence. And so on, and on.

In this case, there is NO GOOD REASON why someone would shoot up a crowd of innocents. In lack of rational explanation (there is none; ever), people will REACH for answers to their questions, even if the lines of conclusion they draw are not clearly connected!

Stand strong to the convictions you held last week. Those are still 100% valid, and more well thought out than you may realize. Don't get down in the mud and start slinging.

Trent, the voice of reason. Well stated.

Birch Knoll · Jul 22, 2012

allaroundhunter said:
The sad thing is, it is becoming clear that he was not clinically insane. The level of premeditation and organization shows the exact opposite.

Um, what? Are you under the impression that there is some definition of the term "clinically insane", and that definition excludes the ability to plan and organize? Because that impression would be wrong.

thefish · Jul 23, 2012

M&PVolk said:
Because words mean things, and the right words can shape and mold perspectives. Calling an AR-15 an "assault rifle" is not only completely inaccurate (false reporting), but it defines the gun's primary purpose as being used to "assault". With two small words, they have completely changed the gun from the number one selling long gun in the market most commonly used for hunting and shooting competitions, to a tool used solely for killing people. Make no mistake, how a gun is labeled makes all the difference in public perception and to politicians.

Furthermore, using terms like "clip" and Glock .40 is specifically designed to create a "gangsta" impression. At its best, it is ignorance and bad reporting, at its worst, it is full blown propaganda.

I actually heard a reporter interviewing one of the victims and he actually told the guy "Not to put words in your mouth, but would you say the shooter was robotic?". George Stephanopolis actually said that the shooter may have been a member of the Tea Party, only to have to apologize shortly thereafter. I have never seen so much blatant anti-gun opportunism and agenda pushing so openly on display.

Tragically, the media couldn't even wait a day out of respect for the victims and their families in what is clearly a horrific and tragic event before turning this into a political firestorm. My prayers go out to the families of the victims.

I agree words mean things. And words do define purpose in some situations. But I fail to see how saying "clip" instead of mag, and "Glock .40" somehow give a 'gangsta' feel to this mass shooting/murder. If he had a Glock (which I believe he did, and it was 40 cal, I may be wrong), how is reporting that as a "Glock .40" inaccurate? And if it was not a .40 and a 9mm, does that "false reporting" really make that much of a difference to the facts of the situation.
I REALLY find it hard to believe that while all these news networks are scrambling to report on the news (and that is their job), they have a pow wow with the network execs to come up with a plan and use wrong terminology all in in the intrest of political alignment. Do you seriously think the mass media news outlets are all in a conspericy to fight 2A rights?

And while I HATE to site Wikipedia, it has become the defacto standard for information by the general public The second paragraph on the AR-15 wiki page reads "The AR-15 was first built by ArmaLite as a selective fire assault rifle for the United States armed forces. " Regardless of terminology, The AR-15's primary purpose in this case was exactally that, to assault.

That all being said, there is using incorrect terminology because they just don't know better (most newscasters, in my opinion).

And intentional stupidity.
Huckabee on Fox news tonight said in the same sentence" We don't have a gun control issue, we have a sin issue. should we really be that suprised that as soon as we took god out of our schools and public areas, something like this would happen?"

So this idiot in the same breath sounds pro 2A , but sounding like a crackpot and basically saying this was gods plan.

I think saying that is far worse than clip of glock .40.

357autoloader · Jul 23, 2012

The expert quote that I saw that was most laughable was that "he was packing 6,000 rounds of ammunition". :what:

Coop45 · Jul 23, 2012

A guy that strong doesn't need weapons.

357autoloader · Jul 23, 2012

And intentional stupidity.
Huckabee on Fox news tonight said in the same sentence" We don't have a gun control issue, we have a sin issue. should we really be that suprised that as soon as we took god out of our schools and public areas, something like this would happen?"

So this idiot in the same breath sounds pro 2A , but sounding like a crackpot and basically saying this was gods plan.

That you could watch Huckabee and garner this conclusion from what he said, tells me all I need to know about you.

Shadow 7D · Jul 23, 2012

One of the local shops
isn't much of a shop, they are BARE compared to most, have a few guns, lots of high end parts,

most of their business is TRAINING - as in the owner is a well know national trainer

they have some guns, and lots of gun smith custom parts
the local TV news interviewed him ONCE,
first they had NO clue who he was
second they edited him to say 'something other than what was said'
and finally, they REFUSED to correct it.

and they wonder why NO ONE will comment on anything any more
closest you get is a talk radio host commenting on what one of them told him

AND
I was present when a reporter called a different shop
love the guys there
One is a crusty older guy, a font of knowledge, and by that I mean I have yet to catch him being off on basic facts, I've called him on some, and was I schooled.
more than willing to call the pot black and point out EXACTLY how stupid you are.

Reporter called him
he started on the LONG litanty of complaints against that news outlet
going through the misquotes, the outright lies, the twists, the slants...
I guess they guy hung on, cause it was getting a little wearing

He ended with 'and what the *explicative* makes you think I'm going to talk to you?'

Neverwinter · Jul 23, 2012

357autoloader said:
That you could watch Huckabee and garner this conclusion from what he said, tells me all I need to know about you.

Apparently it was central enough for Fox News to make it the tagl line of the video.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1747504896001/huckabee-we-have-a-sin-problem/

Making that kind of self-serving statement in the wake of this tragedy is just as despicable as the anti-gunners coming out for increased gun control, and excludes him in the group of "experts".

Shadow 7D · Jul 23, 2012

WAIT
WAIT

hold the presses

3 pages and NOBODY has thrown out the 'Journalist guide to gun identification' yet?

Birch Knoll · Jul 23, 2012

The expert quote that I saw that was most laughable was that "he was packing 6,000 rounds of ammunition".

Yeah, I loved that one myself so much that I went and weighed a box of .40S&W, .223 and 12ga 00 buck, and dd the math. Depending on the mix of ammo, 6,000 rounds in those cartridges would weigh between 250 and 600+ pounds. Plus the weight of the magazines to hold the ammo, of course.

Sav .250 · Jul 23, 2012

Most if not all those people are .....news readers. They don`t know about the subject matter ,they just read it.

pcf · Jul 23, 2012

I called into radio station yesterday to confront an "expert".

He was quick to blame guns for mass murders but, couldn't name the five worse mass murders in contemporary US history:
-911, 2,996 killed, airplanes were the weapon
-Oklahoma City, 168 killed, bomb
-Happy Land Dance Club, 87 killed, arson
-Bath School Bombing, 44 killed, bomb
-Virgina Tech, 32 killed, firearms

I asked the "expert" if he thought that James Holmes apartment indicated that he had the ability and means to produce chemical and/or explosive devices that could have been used in the attacks. My point was that Holmes could carry out the attack without firearms, I was told that we weren't giving ideas to copy cats and hung up on.

Skribs · Jul 23, 2012

I agree words mean things. And words do define purpose in some situations. But I fail to see how saying "clip" instead of mag, and "Glock .40" somehow give a 'gangsta' feel to this mass shooting/murder. If he had a Glock (which I believe he did, and it was 40 cal, I may be wrong), how is reporting that as a "Glock .40" inaccurate? And if it was not a .40 and a 9mm, does that "false reporting" really make that much of a difference to the facts of the situation.
I REALLY find it hard to believe that while all these news networks are scrambling to report on the news (and that is their job), they have a pow wow with the network execs to come up with a plan and use wrong terminology all in in the intrest of political alignment. Do you seriously think the mass media news outlets are all in a conspericy to fight 2A rights?

If they were just reporting the story, fine. However, they never just report the story - they go into gun control. If you don't know enough about something to know the difference between "clip" and "magazine", then how are you qualified to talk about how bad it is? If you show that you are uninformed by making simple mistakes, then its harder to take you seriously.

And while I HATE to site Wikipedia, it has become the defacto standard for information by the general public The second paragraph on the AR-15 wiki page reads "The AR-15 was first built by ArmaLite as a selective fire assault rifle for the United States armed forces. " Regardless of terminology, The AR-15's primary purpose in this case was exactally that, to assault.

The fact that it is select fire is what made it an assault rifle. If it is semi-automatic, then it is not an assault rifle.

Huckabee on Fox news tonight said in the same sentence" We don't have a gun control issue, we have a sin issue. should we really be that suprised that as soon as we took god out of our schools and public areas, something like this would happen?"

So this idiot in the same breath sounds pro 2A , but sounding like a crackpot and basically saying this was gods plan.

His problem is not knowing the difference between godless and sinful, even though most Christians would believe them to be the same thing (since being godless is a sin). Athiests and christians would agree that what this man did was wrong, and athiest and christian gun owners would agree that the problem here isn't the gun - its the shooter.

thefish · Jul 23, 2012

357autoloader said:
That you could watch Huckabee and garner this conclusion from what he said, tells me all I need to know about you.

I can only assume that was some kind of insult, but have no idea what you are trying to say.

Chevelle SS · Jul 23, 2012

thefish · Jul 23, 2012

Neverwinter said:
Apparently it was central enough for Fox News to make it the tagl line of the video.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1747504896001/huckabee-we-have-a-sin-problem/

Making that kind of self-serving statement in the wake of this tragedy is just as despicable as the anti-gunners coming out for increased gun control, and excludes him in the group of "experts".

exactly. I happened to be flipping through and stopped on that long enough to hear him say that. I'm sure it makes the victims families feel great that somehow this terrible tragedy is justified.

THe "experts" being interviewed

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