Forward Assist? What?

Silent chambering without a forward assist: with loaded mag, pull charging handle rearward and ease forward. Use thumb on recess on the side of bolt to push bolt forward into battery.

Silent chambering without a forward assist: with loaded mag, pull charging handle rearward and ease forward. Use thumb on recess on the side of bolt to push bolt forward into battery.

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Can you do that with gloves on?

meanmrmustard said:

Rice paddies? LZs? Rifles of ole didn't always have such crap, and they won wars.

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Just an FYI. The guy you quoted there is a Vietnam vet who, if I remember correctly, commanded an infantry unit while there. So if he talks about the rifles needing one in LZs and rice paddies, I would believe him.

On "rifles of ole" the back of the op-rod handle served as the forward assist. I can tell you that both the M1 and M14 did and do need the capability to wack the back of the op-rod handle from time to time.

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You bet they did.

I was among the last to train on the M1 -- at Fort Polk, La in 1962. On my first tour in Viet Nam, I was an Adviser. My issue M2 Carbine got wrapped around a tree, and I borrowed an M1 Garand from the ARVN and carried that for the rest of my tour. I may be one of the very last American soldiers to use the Garand in combat.

My second tour I was a Rifle Company commander and got my battalion commander to get me two M14 sniper rilfles (pre-M21.) I had one kid who had been through the 3rd MarDiv sniper school, and I carried the other.

The standard manual of arms for both the M1 and the M14 is to whack the operating rod handle when loading -- to be sure the bolt is fully forward and locked.

C-grunt said:

Just an FYI. The guy you quoted there is a Vietnam vet who, if I remember correctly, commanded an infantry unit while there. So if he talks about the rifles needing one in LZs and rice paddies, I would believe him.

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Which was nearly a half century ago. Glad it proved useful there. Doesn't so much mean I need one on my rifle. That was my point, no rice paddies or Vietcong here.

Yes, you can push bolt into battery with gloved hands. Glommits, prolly not.

Exactly. When I coyote hunt, this is how I load my gun. Quiet is good.

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This!

Which was nearly a half century ago. Glad it proved useful there. Doesn't so much mean I need one on my rifle. That was my point, no rice paddies or Vietcong here.

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Viet Cong and rice paddies not withstanding, the forward assist is one of those things that ain't eatin' anything, and it ain't in the way. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

1911Tuner said:

Viet Cong and rice paddies not withstanding, the forward assist is one of those things that ain't eatin' anything, and it ain't in the way. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

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Another thing to break. Here's an anecdote for ya: "all things that can happen usually do".
I've never had one break, but ask yourself, what happens if it does?

1. The scallop on the AR bolt is there to allow the dust cover to function. I have oft heard folks speak of its use to close the bolt, and I have also seen a few sliced thumbs cut on the edges of the ejection port. I also want to watch as you put your thumb over those vent holes in the bolt carrier in that scollop when the fifth magazine to be loaded after rapidly firing four results in a failure to close.....smell that bacon!

2. I have had to use the forward assist on more than one M-16A-1 rifle or cycle out a round and thus loose it for use right then

3. I have seen many other folks to use the forward assist on M-16A-1 rifles

4. I have been in a situation that would have had a much lower pucker factor if someone had used a forward assit rather than panicing.

5. You betcha I have punched the op rod handle of an M-1 rifle and/or carbine a few times with the heel of my right hand

6. Seems to me that if it were not useful that at somepoint in the last 45 years some cost cutting bean counter in the pentagon or the Government Accounting Office would have had new purchases with out them

7. I promised myself not to get into AR bashing any more (Hi, Vern!) so I am out of here before I get started.

-kBob

I'm loaded before heading into the field, don't chamber in the tree or blind but usually outside the truck, but that's me and my preference. I hunt mostly evenings, so I'm not trouncing around before sun up a whole lot with a loaded rifle. Other than that, never need it. If a round didn't want to chamber to begin with, why force it. Drop it like a bad habit, let the next one hit home and keep rockin and rollin.

FWIW I have never used the forward assist, as a civilian or while in the military. But it doesn't hurt to have it, is mostly unobtrusive, and doesn't add much weight. So better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it right?

Another +1 for forward assist- equals quiet, equals better.
Most "so called AR Guys", yep, even here, wouldn't know that, cuz they've never used one in a situation where noise was an issue.

My bcm ar using magul mags and cheapo wolf ammo wont chamber the first rund out of the magnfully about 50% of the time. A few taps on the forward assist and it chambers and functions fine.

Gun works perfect with brass cases but without forward assist i wouldnt be able to use cheapo steel ammo (it probably would work if i only loaded 25-29 runds in mag instead of 30)

I think the FA is useful for combat but its use in everyday life ,other than easing the
Bolt closed,is not needed and in some cases dangerous. I watched a video of some people firing an AR at a range and the guy was having misfires and kept banging on the FA. After about the third time of doing this the gun went kaboom. Now
I don't know if it was a squib or a out of spec round but the problem was he forced a round into the chamber to cause the explosion. Without a FA I don't think this would have happened. If under normal operation a round fails to chamber I would think a proper fail to feed drill would be better than banging on the FA.

If this is the case, I think you're putting a lot of thought into a non issue. The uses of a FA have been discussed above, so I won't rehash all of that; however, the question that pops into my head is why would you want to build a rifle without a forward assist.

The FA and dust cover were left off of the S&W Sport as a cost cutting measure. The Sport is not, nor was it intended to be any sort of "duty" weapon. Even S&W recognizes this and this is evidenced by their higher end models, which do include a forward assist and dust cover.

Besides, you're kind of going to have to go looking for an upper that doesn't include the FA or dust cover, because most of the uppers out there include these two things. If you don't want the FA or dust cover, then seek out one of these slab side receivers. If you don't mind having these, then you can have your pick of the litter.

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I think this puts it pretty plainly.

If you are building one, then definitely get an upper receiver with FA/DC; they almost always come with it anyway.

If you were on a budget and looking to buy a complete AR like the S&W Sport or DPMS, then the FA is no big deal. Then again, I don't think you would take those rifles into duty purposes either...

It's interesting to note that back when the army demanded the addition of the forward assist for the M16-A1, both the marine corps and the air force objected that it wasn't necessary, and would simply increase the per-unit cost of the rifle. Gene Stoner also said exactly the same thing.

I've heard some people (and read comments on this forum) proclaim they'd never trust a rifle without some ability to force the bolt closed, and to hear them talk you'd think this was a catastrophic deficiency. But there have been a number of other rifles and machine guns, such as the British L1A1 variant of the FAL, the West German G3, the venerable BAR of WWII, the MG-42, FN-MAG, etc. that featured a non-reciprocating charging handle that could not be used to force the bolt forward either, and it worked just fine on all those weapons. It really is something of a non-problem. If the bolt fails to go fully forward, just work the charging handle again to clear the offending round from the chamber.

When I was in the infantry, we were taught to "pull SPORTS" in the event of a malfunction. I'm sure many veterans here will remember this. Slap (the magazine to fully seat it), Pull (the charging handle), Observe (the chamber to see that the round was cleared), Release (the charging handle), Tap (the forward assist), Squeeze (the trigger).

However, more recently, I have qualified with the police department with the patrol rifle (an M4-style, natch), and the training for this weapon is conducted by my department's SWAT team. They are basing it on the CQB training the military is currently giving out, and interestingly, they are advising one to more or less completely ignore the forward assist. In the event of a jam, in order to get the weapon back into action as fast as possible, you simply reach up with the support hand and work the charging handle. If that doesn't work, you either go to the next immediate action drill to clear a more serious jam, or you transition to your pistol if the threat is immediate enough that you don't have time for that.

We were taught SPORTS as well. We were also taught to hit the FA after we loaded a mag. Cheap insurance as they say. It does come in handy for press checks and quiet loading. Used it many times while in the sand box.

I would rather have one on my AR. All my ARs have a FA.

Everyone of these forward assist threads invariably has the comment "use the recess on the bolt carrier" or "that's why the bolt carrier has a recess, so you can push on it with your thumb"

The only reason the bolt has a recess is to provide a space for the dust cover detent. I really want to see anyone who is making these claims post a video of themselves dumping a couple 30 round mags rapid fire and then pushing on the bolt carrier with their bare thumb. I hope you didn't like having thumbprints.

mgregg85 said:

Everyone of these forward assist threads invariably has the comment "use the recess on the bolt carrier" or "that's why the bolt carrier has a recess, so you can push on it with your thumb"

The only reason the bolt has a recess is to provide a space for the dust cover detent. I really want to see anyone who is making these claims post a video of themselves dumping a couple 30 round mags rapid fire and then pushing on the bolt carrier with their bare thumb. I hope you didn't like having thumbprints.

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If it were a problem, gloves.

I've only 'needed' the forward assist once. I was using a different soldiers rifle during a live fire exercise in basic training and never pushed the forward assist when loading. Heard a 'click' and then chambered a new round, pushed the forward assist this time and I saw/felt the bolt fully go into battery after that. That was the last time that I didn't push the forward assist.

I personally wouldn't get an AR-15 without a forward assist after that experience, however I have tried to get the bolt on my AR-15 to not close on purpose a number of times in order to try and duplicate that malfunction. Apparently the buffer spring is strong enough to always close the bolt fully. Who knows how many rounds that basic training rifle had through it... I suspect that buffer spring was a bit weak.

Springfield did you check the ejected round to see if it had a projectile still. If not then you are looking for a kaboom. If you pull the trigger and it goes click then when you eject that round you had best look and see that it has a projectile still in the end. Squibs can happen and without verifing that it was not one you are putting yourself and others in danger. Just think if the first round you tried to fire was a squib and you just ejected it racking a new round in and pushed the FA to close the bolt you could now have a potential kaboom waiting.

I've had a few cases out of two rifles where releasing the bolt to chamber a round from a full mag has resulted in the bolt not fully locking closed, with clean/lube rifles. This makes me want to check, and have a FA available. I do not shoot these rifles often, and have replaced the main action springs as a result, and hope to spend some more time shooting them soon. Personally I've only ever encountered this when chambering the first round... it has not happened during the firing cycle. Not sure if that is significant.

There is nothing really to "break" on the FA. It consists of one spring, and one solid spike that floats in the channel in the upper. To me it seems like one of those things with no possible downside; maybe you will use it one day; maybe not, but there doesn't seem to be any good reason ever stated to NOT have one, other than personal preference such as aesthetics.

meanmrmustard said:

If it were a problem, gloves.

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I don't know about you but I prefer not to always wear gloves, especially gloves that are thick enough to provide any kind of insulation from heat. And I assure you that it would be a problem after firing a magazine or two, unless you wanted to be branded by your rifle. The forward assist is a cheap, easy way to make sure your bolt is locked after brass checks or chamfering a round with a dirty chamber. It's one of those 'why not?' things like the dust cover, why bother going out of your way to not have one?

The only reason the bolt has a recess is to provide a space for the dust cover detent.

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Curious. The Sport has no dust cover but it does have the recess in the bolt.

Seriously, I'm happy with my assistless/coverless Sport, but I would not object if it had the missing parts. When I bought it, the other ARs in the store were at least $200 more and those missing features were not worth $200 to me. I'll offer my opinion on them to a newbie considering a Sport, but if they are important to you, who am I to argue that they should not be?