1911s suck (not my article)

1911's suck so badly that Wilson is backed up to 18 months delivery on some models, Les Baer is at 20-30 weeks, and Ed Brown is at 22 weeks. Obviously, these guns suck so badly the wait for them is getting longer because more people are ordering them...and let's not even get into true custom 1911 gunsmiths...

Fact - if the 1911 has a standard guide rod, a barrel bushing, and grips retained with slotted screws - you can detail strip the gun without tools. All of the tools needed are part of the gun. If you don't know how to detail strip the gun - then you don't know what you're talking about and the rest of your "points" are suspect.

The linked article is right. The 1911 is an old design. There are many guns out on the market now that can do the same thing, with more bullets, with better reliability off the shelf, for a lot less than you can buy a 1911 for. But hey, they still work, right?

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Do you realize striker fired is just as old? Same with a trigger safety. A 1903 actually has less parts that a glock.
I'll give you polymer since its only been 53 years since it was used on a gun. So in reality nothing is "new design"

Then we must ask ourselves what is a 1911? Colt? What about Springfield? Remington Rand? Singer? Ithaca? Union Switch? Those are the originals, everything else is a knock off.

So basically we are talking about a "type" of gun. Would it be any different lumping all polymer pistols together as a type? I certainly wouldn't consider a Hipoint, ATI or other piece of junk to be in the same league as a Glock. Yet people are fine with a blanket statement about a 1911...

Cost is irrelevant to the discussion..

Oh, me oh my. Not this again...

*sigh*

I'm not about to waste time arguing with a man whose mind is made up, nor with anyone who listens to his drivel and spreads his gospel. He takes one or two examples and bases his theories on those instead of the vast majority that run just fine.

If all 1911s were unreliable junk, the pistol would have gone the way of the Chauchaut decades ago, and with the ones that do give a problem, most of the time it's a matter of a few simple adjustments to set right.

The vast majority of the time, it's the magazine. Wish I had a dollar for every Jammin' Jenny I've "fixed" by handing the owner a few of my magazines and telling him to try again. With the others, it's usually the extractor... a matter of a 15-minute tweak. I just recently broke a "junk" Springfield of its jamming habit with a minor extractor adjustment while sitting at my kitchen table with my attention divided between answering the owner's questions and drinking coffee while providing the background stories on the dozen dogs that were milling around vying for attention.

A small percentage actually require major surgery to correct the problems.

The biggest problem is with "Dremel Dan" doin' a Super-Duper Double Throwdown ramp'n'throat job on what was once either a perfectly functioning pistol, or one suffering from an improper magazine or in need of a light extractor tweak...and then pronouncing it as "Worthless Junk" when his efforts bear rotten fruit.

Unsafe for 95% if the users to carry.

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It might be time to note that the new term added to our vocabulary is "Glock Leg" and not "1911 Leg."

Incidentally, I've seen Glocks and Sigs choke, too.

Needs tools to disassemble.

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Spoken like a man who hasn't seen one stripped to bare frame and slide without tools in about 60 seconds.

Crappy magazines.

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On this one, I can find at least a few reasons to agree, but the fault lies with the aftermarket and the belief that...just because you hang a cool moniker on a magazine and charge a big price for it...it's an improvement over the original. So many people have been trying for so long to outsmart John Browning, they really believe they have.

As has been said, the root cause of these 'problems' are the manufacturers and users who have 'improved' (translation: messed with) the 1911 design over the years.

The "tools to disassemble" comment comes from some of the full-length guide rod guns and ones with strange recoil spring cap designs. Mr JMB's design needs none of these things.

Walking Dead said:

Couldn't disagree more. I may not be the biggest fan of the 1911 but if that's what they say they need to get the job done then no questions asked on my part. And don't get me wrong by my earlier comment because I do like the 1911.

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I still love the 1911 but lets be honest, they need the best platform to get the job done and that isn't the 1911. Glock 21 for example will get the job done, is less finicky about conditions (sand for example), the armorer training is so easy it is a joke, and will outlast the 1911. I want my tax dollars to be spent wisely not on the latest 1911 fad.

The most accurate handgun I've ever owned was a Les Baer 45. Doesn't mean I think it is the best combat weapon or the best choice for 99% of those that need a self defense weapon. Yes I think that blog or whatever is over the top but he hit the mark on quite a few points also.

Mr.357Sig said:

The 1911 "is unsafe for 95% of its users to carry." Way to pull unverifiable stats out of your butt, Yankee. Ridiculous.

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Yeah, they are unsafe, just look at all the people that ND a round in their leg. Oh wait, that's called a Glock Leg.

While I didn't look at the link, what irks me are the Tactifools that say that they don't want a thumb safety on their gun then post a pic of their Glock with an AR. HELLO, the AR has a safety that one has to work as well.

For me a 1911/2011 is my platform of choice. I've just ran one of mine through a 3day/~2000rd class with no cleaning, just added a few drops of oil on the barrel hood on the second day. I had no issues, neither did the other 1911's except for a SA Loaded that had the ejector come loose. The polymers started to have issues on day 2 and those were cleaned daily. On the third day, a M&P had a slam fire. Doug at AETi took a look at it and said it was from the dirt in there. A Sig Blackwater 226 cracked its slide and a HK had a bent ejector. There were numerous polymer shooters that had to come off the line because of a malfunction.


Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

I still love the 1911 but lets be honest, they need the best platform to get the job done and that isn't the 1911.

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Do you have a reason to believe that the Marine SOC units made their choice casually?

Really?

Or is it reasonable to believe that they evaluated several platforms before settling on the .45 caliber 1911? These people are going to saddle up and go take care of business in some very ugly, deadly places. They're not going to take that fact lightly or give it a small consideration, and they're sure not gonna base it on what grandpa used on Iwo Jima.

Could it be that the upper echelon charged with overseeing those who are going in harm's way gave them some trigger time on several different platforms and cast a vote as to which one they were more comfortable with?

You may not believe that it's the best platform, but you're not the guy who's gonna go through that door or into that cave with a pistol in one hand and a flashlight in the other.

Yawn,zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I just don't find trying to dialogue with the ignorant proletariat to be productive!! The precis for this thread is so absurd as to not merit our attention. By "ignorant proletariat," I'm speaking of the writer of the referenced blog, not the OP!!

You may not believe that it's the best platform, but you're not the guy who's gonna go through that door or into that cave with a pistol in one hand and a flashlight in the other.

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Quoted for truth.

You can't buy a $500 1911 and expect it to run like a $500 Glock. 1911's have a lot of moving parts that need to be in tune with each other, as well as a more specialized manual of arms.

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I recently built a 1911 from a bag of surplus and new parts...... didnt take much tuning, and i didnt need a specialized manual either, i just used common sense and and parts diagram, and guess what 1000 rnds later and only one jam, on the other hand ive seen more than one gunsmith fight with glocks for numerous hours just trying to get them to fire every round. oh and ive had zero training on building a 1911, its a piece of cake.

1911Tuner said:

Do you have a reason to believe that the Marine SOC units made their choice casually?

Really?

Or is it reasonable to believe that they evaluated several platforms before settling on the .45 caliber 1911? These people are going to saddle up and go take care of business in some very ugly, deadly places. They're not going to take that fact lightly or give it a small consideration, and they're sure not gonna base it on what grandpa used on Iwo Jima.

Could it be that the upper echelon charged with overseeing those who are going in harm's way gave them some trigger time on several different platforms and cast a vote as to which one they were more comfortable with?

You may not believe that it's the best platform, but you're not the guy who's gonna go through that door or into that cave with a pistol in one hand and a flashlight in the other.

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Yeah I'm sure they put it to a vote and everyone got the exact weapon they wanted also. Like most decisions the decisions were made by committee and we all know how well that works most of the time. I'm sure they didn't pick what they thought was the coolest looking gun vs. the gun that would withstand the harshest use, have the easiest training curve, enable them to have the best armorer support, have the easiest maintenance in the field, and be the most durable (sarcasm in case you are missing it). I don't fight terrorist overseas. I fight the ones in this country. I would never go through a door with a pistol in one hand and a flashlight in the other since the invention of the gun mounted light.

1911Tuner said:

Oh, me oh my. Not this again...

*sigh*

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+100

1911Tuner said:

Yawn,zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

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+100

This is really getting lame.

I currently primarily shoot a Glock 22, but for my own very specific reasons. Still love my Series 70 though and it is VERY realiable.

The author of the article states he will only listen to people who have been there and done that. Unless I am mistaken Ayoob has his name on a signature edition Ed Brown 1911.

A whole lot of opinion.

A whole lot of opinion indeed.


i´d have given the marines a friggin glock as well.
It´s not like the US has any money in the bank,
and giving contracts to Colt, won´t reverse the economy either.


After all ... H&K is not building any. It must be bad right??

I like 1911's quite a bit, but I also happen to like a lot of other old obsolete guns. I felt the article might have gone a little overboard, but was generally pretty accurate.

I'm really disappointed in he Marines decision. It seems they are now more interested on looking like Mall Ninjas than using the best available.

Like most decisions the decisions were made by committee and we all know how well that works most of the time.

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Uh...no. This time I do believe that they gave the bleeding/dying grunts some input, and a lot of the decision was based on the experiences that the first MEU-SOC personnel had with the pistol. Remember that this wasn't to be a general issue sidearm. It was to be a life taker and a widow maker issued to an elite group. They were involved in the process.

I'm really disappointed in he Marines decision. It seems they are now more interested on looking like Mall Ninjas than using the best available.

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No. That statement is patently absurd. They're far more interested in staying alive, and successfully completing their mission...and units such as this one...like the SEALs...aren't in it for the glory or recognition or image. They go do it and they don't talk about it. In fact, they'd much prefer that they not get any media attention at all.

Hang the cost. Give the lads what they want. Give'em the equipment that inspires confidence. I detect a little sour grape response because they didn't choose the pistol that the Glock/Sig fanboys were so hoping for.

jmr40
I'm really disappointed in he Marines decision. It seems they are now more interested on looking like Mall Ninjas than using the best available.

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Are you serious? This has to be one of the most absurd comments I've ever read here.. That's saying something!!!!!$

You can't buy a $500 1911 and expect it to run like a $500 Glock. 1911's have a lot of moving parts that need to be in tune with each other, as well as a more specialized manual of arms

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Regent R100
Retailed $500 when I bought it. Usually sells for significantly less.

2,000 rounds. I've had 2 stoppages, but they were the result of a handload with a split case (would stop many handguns) and the freak occurrence of an ejected brass flying up then falling back down into the action while it was cycling (would stop ANY handgun).

I am another that does not have any experience with the 1911 but I have read other stuff by the author of the article. The impression I get is that he is a Glock-O-Phile that isn't really that knowledgeable about other stuff. Not that there is anything wrong with liking Glocks or not being experienced with every handgun platform known to man. However if one is going to set themselves up to discuss different platforms they should really make an effort to learn enough to be able to set forth facts in an objective manner. If anyone disagrees with me that is fine but if you go back through some of his other stuff I believe you will see why I have this opinion.

I wish someone would write a decent article about why 1911's suck, or why Glock's suck for that matter. It would be nice to read something with some hard data and some verifiable facts. Every time I read one like this guys I just come away with the feeling their full of <deleted> like a Christmas tree.

Snag said:

I wish someone would write a decent article about why 1911's suck, or why Glock's suck for that matter. It would be nice to read something with some hard data and some verifiable facts.

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There are plenty of quality reviews out there.

One such example from tactical application perspective where duty pistols MUST perform reliably is done by Hilton Yam who is a LEO/armorer (browse through his articles and he tells it like it is as to why various pistols fail and how to address/work around the failures). Here's his take on "beginner's 1911" - http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2011/01/choosing-your-first-1911-some-thoughts.html