7.62mm proof helmet?

Many skeptics say the requirement is pointless — even if the bullet doesn’t penetrate the helmet, the sheer force would likely break a Marine’s neck and be just as fatal as an open wound. And that may be true in some cases.

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Marines must have weak necks!

That's possibly a new equivalent to the mythical "tear a man's arm off" and movie backflips when an extra is hit by a bullet.

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I think you nailed it -- a 7.62X39mm round cannot generate enough momentum to even move a man's head, let alone break his neck.

oh it can move a mans head, it moved your shoulder on the other end right?

break a neck, unlikely.

oh it can move a mans head, it moved your shoulder on the other end right?

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No. Not siginificantly.

The impact of a bullet on a man wearing armor is always a little bit less than the recoil of the weapon. Ever shoot steel pepper popers? They just sort of tip over.

the sheer force would likely break a Marine’s neck

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Concussion? Quite possible. Broken neck? Not a chance.

Seems to me, if you took some of the plates out of the 7.62mm proof vests and formed them into some sort of polygonal shape around the soldiers head, combined with the kevlar and whatever else, it would make for a pretty stout helmet.

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And weigh about 30 lbs.

The current generation of kevlar helmets are heavy enough and cause enough upper spine problems as is.

Stopping the bullet isn't the problem, creating a helmet that is light enough not to cause problems wearing it is the challenge.

If it is meant to stop 7.62x39, I'd think a helmet made of UHMWPE/HDPE with a either ceramic or steel liner would be able to do that at a fairly modest weight and offer protection from both 7.62x39 and perhaps 5.45/5.56 as well.

I'm sure we've all seen pictures of the Brittish helmets that have defeated rifle rounds many times in the past. If they can do it, so can we.

Mobility of the head, especially to react and turn to see things in combat might be more important than having improved projectile resistance. This has probably been the limiting factor, maybe in addition to weight and the exhaustion that would result from having to wear it. A soldier can only take so much.

A soldier of mine in Afghanistan was hit by a round from a PKM(7.62x52mmR I believe). The round impacted just above his eyebrow on just the very edge of his Advanced Combat Helmet(ACH also just called kevlar). The impact knocked him over and layed him out in his guard tower, the round fragmented and ricocheted into two other soldiers also knocking them down(impacts were on their vests). the soldier shot in "face" had a concussion and he still suffers from neck pain a little over a year later. So from witnessing that, I say that the argument about force of impact is that while the force may not actually break a neck, you sure as hell know that you just got shot in the brain housing group. The helmets we have usually stop a 7.62mm round, and the ones that penetrate will usually follow the curvature on the inside of the "kevlar" skimming around the head, but not actually penetrating a skull. So tentatively, I would venture to say that we actually do have a helmet that stops 7.62mm rounds, but as is the case with almost all military equipment, doesn't work 100% of the time.

A soldier of mine in Afghanistan was hit by a round from a PKM(7.62x52mmR I believe).

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But there is a huge difference between a 7.62x39 and the 7.62x54R.
I would think the 54R would hit like hammer.....the 39 like a rock. But I'm just guessing of course.

Hell, the 82nd had a guy who was shot in the Kpot 3 times, through at least 3 wars, one of my PSG's was a medic with in him Grenada, he took a burst to the head (helmet came off and he walked away, and that helmet is in the 82nd ABN Museum) He got shot in Panama, and then again in A-Stan, walked in and the 3 dudes who knew him were spilling coffee all over the Army Times, they were laughing so hard, see, he, after a number of Purple Hearts still hadn't learned to DUCK, anywho, they do their best, and well, it's mostly about angles, straight on with little room to move, it will usually go through, at an angle...

Granted, they were pistol rounds but...

I saw something interesting down at a large military surplus store, back in 1998. It was in Canal Street, lower Manhattan, of all places.
It was an OD Green military helmet, definitely made of some sort of composite material. All over its outer surface were gouges, circled in some sort of crayon or marker - 115gr 9mm FMJ, 158 gr .38 spl, etc. Pretty neat item, and I wish to this day I had bought it.

CSC_Saint said:

A soldier of mine in Afghanistan was hit by a round from a PKM(7.62x52mmR I believe). The round impacted just above his eyebrow on just the very edge of his Advanced Combat Helmet(ACH also just called kevlar). The impact knocked him over and layed him out in his guard tower, the round fragmented and ricocheted into two other soldiers also knocking them down(impacts were on their vests). the soldier shot in "face" had a concussion and he still suffers from neck pain a little over a year later. So from witnessing that, I say that the argument about force of impact is that while the force may not actually break a neck, you sure as hell know that you just got shot in the brain housing group. The helmets we have usually stop a 7.62mm round, and the ones that penetrate will usually follow the curvature on the inside of the "kevlar" skimming around the head, but not actually penetrating a skull. So tentatively, I would venture to say that we actually do have a helmet that stops 7.62mm rounds, but as is the case with almost all military equipment, doesn't work 100% of the time.

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I will take a second to thank both you and your soldier for standing your watch for your country, especially in a place where this sort of thing could happen.

Quite honestly I don't care what what type of round is screaming towards my helmet, getting hit in the head can't possibly be very comforting, let alone anywhere else. However since full power 7.62X54R rounds do generate much more energy than 7.62X39 type rounds I do not wish to imagine someone having to experience that. For our soldiers in combat developing the tech. necessary to keep them alive in battle is a fantastic thing, a far cry from the Vietnam War era so called "Flak Jackets" and or helmets of that time.

A soldier of mine in Afghanistan was hit by a round from a PKM(7.62x52mmR I believe). The round impacted just above his eyebrow on just the very edge of his Advanced Combat Helmet(ACH also just called kevlar). The impact knocked him over and layed him out in his guard tower, the round fragmented and ricocheted into two other soldiers also knocking them down(impacts were on their vests). the soldier shot in "face" had a concussion and he still suffers from neck pain a little over a year later. So from witnessing that, I say that the argument about force of impact is that while the force may not actually break a neck, you sure as hell know that you just got shot in the brain housing group. The helmets we have usually stop a 7.62mm round, and the ones that penetrate will usually follow the curvature on the inside of the "kevlar" skimming around the head, but not actually penetrating a skull. So tentatively, I would venture to say that we actually do have a helmet that stops 7.62mm rounds, but as is the case with almost all military equipment, doesn't work 100% of the time.

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The Chicken plates we wore in Nam (40 pounds) would supposedly stop or deflect a .50 (or so the advertisement went). Guarantee you, besides the shrapnel from the slug, ceramic spray, broken ribs and eyes that would be bugged out for a long time afterwords it might be better than being turned inside out by the bullet but for sure you would remember the experience unless the force scrambled all you synapses?

There should be a way of making a helmet that has shapes that instead of stopping the round; it would deflect all but the most direct hit. I have seen 7.62x39 deflected by the door of a UH-1 and it don't get much flimsier than that. Instrument panels with blisters from angled shots and holes where the round took a more direct route was not all that rare. The angle of the dangle was your friend.

Any hunter knows a twig can throw a bullets trajectory off just enough to mess with a great shot.

Most of our guys who were shot who did not make it back were hit in the face or leg and bled out in the 20 or so minutes it took to get out of the area and be treated properly with blood added to their leaky reservoir. We definitely need something for our troops that does not weigh a ton and provides a reasonable amount of protection. Yea I know define reasonable.

"Robots". It's getting too dangerous to be on the battlefield. One day soon it will all be done like a video game.

To those who thank me for my service, thank you. And to Sky, now I'd like to take a second to thank you for your service. You vietnam guys are the old guard and a hell of alot ballsier than this generation.

And yes Sky, crazy how the most ridiculous things will do some crazy things to bullets. Like the dang things got a mind of their own.

A round hitting a helmet won't break a person's neck... but it will give them a heck of a concussion, which can be deadly. Helmets are not for stopping bullets, they're for stopping shrapnel.

To those who thank me for my service, thank you. And to Sky, now I'd like to take a second to thank you for your service. You vietnam guys are the old guard and a hell of alot ballsier than this generation.

And yes Sky, crazy how the most ridiculous things will do some crazy things to bullets. Like the dang things got a mind of their own.

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Salute; but as some of the guys used to say, "It don't mean nuthin". Long time ago and ya just move on.

I really feel for the guys humping all that weight under those conditions; and yes the old helmet was for shrapnel an even boiling water in the old black shoe days..hows that water thing working out with the new design??

Anyway, weight is a problem. Jeez even MREs weigh after a few meals are packed. LRP meals freeze dried were lighter if I remember right but required hot water to bring them back to life. Talk about fiber!! You had your own internal wicker factory if you ate enough of that stuff!

I went over weighing 205 and came back to the world weighing 153. Who says you can't live on c-rats of beanie weenies and the occasional pound cake!

Robots have come a long way and yes UAVs are stepping up and doing their part; war sucks especially for the losers so let us hope our troops always go forth with the best equipment some rear echelon dude can come up with. Amazing how some of the ancient armies took care of business when all is considered; but of course they were not being shot at with modern arms.

Just wondering since i've seen the Helmet at the 82nd museum..

Hell, the 82nd had a guy who was shot in the Kpot 3 times, through at least 3 wars, one of my PSG's was a medic with in him Grenada, he took a burst to the head (helmet came off and he walked away, and that helmet is in the 82nd ABN Museum) He got shot in Panama, and then again in A-Stan, walked in and the 3 dudes who knew him were spilling coffee all over the Army Times, they were laughing so hard, see, he, after a number of Purple Hearts still hadn't learned to DUCK,

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Your PSG happen to mention how many months the guy spent in rehab? in '94 the display for that torn up K-pot mentioned a severe concussion and skull fracture...