what is the best, most reliable modern carbine?

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Because for hunting as a reloader I would use a 180 grain Nos Partion out of the rifle at 40,900 cups with rifle powder 1,325 fps, instead of a 158 grain bullet at 16,200 cups with pistol powder 1,059 fps.
Right tool for the right job.
Double check the data in the Hodgdon's Annual (since it appears that's where you're getting your info), there's a typo and the 158XTP is listed twice. Once with weak loads using fast pistol powder that just isn't appropriate for the cartridge and aren't magnum loads at all and once with actual magnum powders that are appropriate to the cartridge and bullet weight and significantly more pressure and velocity. I wouldn't really call H4227 a real rifle powder. Speaking from experience, published loads essentially call for a full case of slow burning pistol powder which maxes out the pressure while burning slow enough to sustain the pressure and also fast enough to not be outpaced by the high expansion ratio. Going with a slower powder will not reach max pressure and will not sustain pressure either.

The 180gn load is probably a better long range bullet, but even it is limited in range and depending on what you're hunting the 158 will do a very good job as well and shoot a little flatter. If you have a Blackhawk with a 6+" barrel the 180gn load is suitable for it as well and the Hodgdon's data shows over 1400fps from a 10" barrel and Hornady 1150 from an 8" Python.

If you're going to tout "right tool" use the right tool.
 
If you're going to tout "right tool" use the right tool.

I do a 336C in 35 Remington or a 7600 in 30-06. I gave up playing cowboys and indians at age 5, that was 63 years ago. If your out there hunting the animal, I think a 357 Mag is marginal, and if he wants a pistol and rifle in the same caliber a 44 Mag will do a better job.


That's my opinion.
Jim
 
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Nice back-pedal and I agree with everything except considering the .357 marginal.
 
some great answers, thanks to all who replied.

Someone asked about my M-1 carbine. I've been trying to get it working right, I've have a new gas cylinder put in and now its been sitting at a gunsmith for a month getting a new extractor. It just wont handle any steel case ammo and even with brass was having some problems. But when it was working right I loved it, it is short and easy to handle, and accurate. With my question, I was searching for something similar in handling, but more reliable. Are M-1 Carbines reliable if they have new parts?

I've got some rifles already, I got a nice AR15, my biggest is a Springfield M1A, then I have a .22 ruger, .17 HMR Henry and then my M1 Carbine. I'm trying to figure out what I want next. I want something light, easy to handle and fun to shoot.

Thanks again.
 
This one likely isn't best, but most reliable it could be, Hi Point carbine. Only total destruction stops a hipoint from firing.
 
There is a pistol that fires 7.62 x 39 ammo so I'm going to say an SKS is the most reliable carbine you can find. Whether it is the "best" is a whole other question. They are certainly good but "best: is in the eye of the beholder. First off "best" at what?

I've seen a lot of suggestions for what are essentially sub-guns here. And I've seen people equate carbine with semi-auto. A carbine had nothing to do with what type of action a rifle has. It's about what size the rifle is. It is a shorter rifle than a main battle rifle traditionally. So anything shorter than a M1 using smaller caliber ammo is a carbine until you get down to things like the Uzi which is in reality a sub-gun.

If you want incredible reliability get yourself a Norinco SKS that has never been unpacked. A Yugo will do but they're heavier and barely rate as a carbine as a result of the extended length from the grenade launcher.

AK's are also greatly reliable rifles but they are not as reliable as the SKS in my experience. I'm talking about an SKS that hasn't been bubba'ed up BTW. A few detachable mags will work with certain models of the SKS but 99% won't. And the stocks people put on their SKS's will often make the rifle malfunction. Stick with the original and if you want a pistol to go with it buy a Draco.

If you want a more common pistol round for a rifle I'd suggest a .44 magnum myself. They're lots more powerful than a .357 magnum. You could also get a .45 Long Colt but again the .44 magnum is more powerful and you can use .44 special rounds if you choose. Technically you can load .45 LC to be hotter than .44 magnums these days but finding off the shelf ammo that fires that hot is not going to happen AFAIK. If I wanted a more powerful round I'd go with a .454 anyway. For that you would have to buy a Rossi I believe.

BTW those saying that a lever gun is more reliable than a semi-auto should review the fact that Marlin stopped making lever guns because they were having so much trouble with them in their new factory setup. I don't know if they ever started production up again or not. But things do go wrong with lever guns. My friend bought a brand new .30-.30 and it managed to jam so tightly in the tube mag he got me to get it un-stuck for him. Now he's scared of even trying to shoot it. To be honest I don't blame him. There's something wrong with that rifle. For some reason he won't send it back to have it fixed though. I don't think he would trust it even if he did which may be why he doesn't send it back. He doesn't want to be put on the spot to try it again. You get enough pressure on a round in a tube it can give you a big surprise.
 
I have an affinity for pistol caliber carbines. I have the Kel-Tec Sub2000 in 9mm, a Winchester 94 in .357 mag and an H&K USC in .45 ACP. All three are great and very reliable and fun to shoot. They all have their unique attributes and special qualities too. I would heartily endorse any of them.
 
Personally, I think the market is ready for a good pistol cartridge carbine platform that is readily adaptable to all the popular pistol cartridges like 9mm, .40S&W, 10mm, .45ACP and maybe .50GI. It should use proprietary stick mags, no goofy 33rd Glock 9mm or other pistol magazines. There should be multiple magazine capacity options but overall, it should be generous. At least 20-25rds in .45ACP. Obviously more with smaller chamberings. It should come with a threaded muzzle, iron sights and picatinny rails. It should have a collapsible and/or folding stock. Maybe make it compatible with AR butts and grips. Interchangeable uppers for caliber conversions would be nice. It would also be nice if MSRP was under $1000.

Then it can have a big brother in .357 and .44 Automags, 10mmMag, .45Win Mag, .440CorBon, .50AE etc. Also with interchangeable uppers.

I'll take one of each, please. :D
 
M1 Carbines are not overly complex. You can buy new, original USGI parts for very cheap. For instance, at Ozark Surplus, a new USGI extractor is $10. and a new extractor spring and plunger will set you back $4.

http://www.ozarksurplus.com/M1-Carbine_c3.htm?page=all


While you are rebuilding your bolt, swap out the ejector spring and plunger for $5.95.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/ejectorwithspring.aspx

I would buy the USGI original bolt tool for $40 and learn to do it yourself. Here is a great video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_T3F24nWcc

Good luck and enjoy that great rifle!
 
IT really is hard to beat an M1 Carbine when it comes to hot pistol carbines. It is as handy as a 22 with more power than a 357.
 
Not a heck of a lot to go wrong with a good levergun, certainly less prone to stoppages that semi autos.

Those are actually two different statements, and they're both untrue.

Agreed. I've had far more issues with lever guns than autos. They can be tempermental about the angle of the gun during cycling, the entire mechanism is more complicated and generally weaker than a semi-auto, and if you short-stroke the lever, you can create a real nightmare of a jam that may require disassembly.

To the OP-

I've owned many pistol caliber carbines, the only ones I still have are Marlins, an M94 .44 Mag, a Camp 9 and a Camp 45.
 
I kind of like my Hi-Point...............
+1. Reliable, accurate, fun. Cheap to buy too.

I've owned the KelTec Sub2k, 9mm Glock model. I'll never buy another, and used the funding from the one I sold for the Hi Point. Much better rifle all around.
 
Nothing wrong with the M1 carbine as long as it works. I would send it out to one of the gunsmiths that specialize in military stuff and get it fixed.

There are a number of new model pistol carbines in semiauto on the market now. Take a look on the net. I have had the Marlin Camp 9mm and it was OK. Parts are getting scarce now I heard, might be true. Had an IMI Uzi and it was great. Never jammed and was very accurate. Liked the Ruger carbine but they are very expensive now. Also had the KelTec Glock model in 9mm and it worked OK. Didnt like the sights so sold it.

Right now I would probably build up an AR if I wanted a 9mm carbine. There are some lowers that are made just for the 9mm and reportedly are GTG. The AR also has excellent sights and can have a really good trigger installed. The only problem is the cost.
 
I have two carbines that I like a lot. One is an Unberwood M1 and the other is a Rossi lever gun with a 16" barrel, .357 magnum. Both work very reliably, thank you.
It is probably worth the trouble to fix the M1 that the OP owns. Fairly certainly, the repairs will be less $ that a new carbine.
The little Rossi is a handy firearm. Accurate, reliable, cheap to feed. I recommend it without reservation.
Don't quite understand the need to criticize lever guns. I have shot my fair share of them in cartridges from .22rf up to 45-70 and haven't seen one jam yet. Semi-autos on the other hand.........
Pete
 
Is it possible it's your magazines that are providing the issues with your M1? My FIL has one and he had a couple mags that started to get weak springs and it wouldn't feed reliably with them.

If your new extractor doesn't fix the issues, you could find a good carbine/pistol match and keep your M1 as a project gun.
 
A carbine being a shortened version of a longer gun of the same type, the most reliable would be a single shot, probably with a simple manual cocking bolt action. The more features a gun has the more that can go wrong, which decreases reliability no matter how well it is made.
 
M31 Finnish Suomi

I just bought a M31 Finnish Suomi SMG converted to semi-auto.
It has proven VERY reliable with both the 36rnd stick mags and 71rnd Drum mags.
It seems to cycle any 9mm ammo I put through it, even 1978 Romainian.
It is extremely accurate for a carbine.
I wont lie, it is a heavy beast of a gun, but the weight eliminates any climb and recoil.
They are available from Centerfire systems for $430 and come with 1 36rnd mag and 1 71rnd drum.
suomiattherange.jpg

By smokingmetal at 2012-07-10
 
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