why handgun bullet is round nosed?
- Thread starter ns66
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P90 muzzle speed 2350 ft/s
FiveSeven muzzle speed 2050 ft/s
not too much difference, i provided the link or you can google
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I know what the muzzle velocity is.
Why don't you Google this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Winchester_Magnum_Rimfire
rc
Why don't you Google this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Winchester_Magnum_Rimfire
rc
Like I said the last time you said this, there is a difference between a bottlenecked, .224" cartridge's feeding process and a significantly shorter and wider cartridge like all the other service calibers.
With such a narrow bore, you can easily load elongated projectiles without creating excessive overall length issues.
With a 9mm or .40, in 9mm and .40 sized frames, switching from the established bullet shapes and overall lengths for the cartridge to something long and pointy is not going to work without designing all new frames and magazines for any gun that would chamber the new ammunition.
You seem to be under the impression that it's possible to just swap projectiles to a rifle spitzer-type bullet for handgun calibers, but it isn't.
Not without creating a completely different, largely incompatible, completely inefficient chambering in the process.
ClickClickD'oh
Member
You pass off getting rifle like performance out of a handgun as if it's a bad thing...
ugaarguy
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Key word is reputed, not proven. Again, you're looking at groups that need armor penetrating capability. These groups are also using the P90 for it's high rate of fire, and compact size coupled with that AP capability; and they're only using the P90 is mission specific circumstances, not as a general issue weapon. Finally, as a civilian in the US, we can't even get the AP 5.7 cartridges that are available to LE and military.
That's because the FiveSeven was designed around the 5.7x28 cartridge. It's an exception to the rule, a statistical outlier.
They have been, and tremendously improved at that. Look at the vast improvements these hundred year old cartridges have undergone in the past 25 years. The infamous 1986 FBI Miami shootout is often cited as the impetus for the evolution of handgun terminal ballistic performance.
Rimfire rifle like performance isn't the same thing as centerfire rifle like performance.
leadcounsel
member
"Pointy" is designed to penetrate body armor.
Until recently, personal body armor wasn't an issue on any battlefield, nor in any civilian setting.
"non-pointy" was (and is) frequently more desireable in a handgun round.
Until recently, personal body armor wasn't an issue on any battlefield, nor in any civilian setting.
"non-pointy" was (and is) frequently more desireable in a handgun round.
"Reputed".
Not the same word as "proven". And hydrostatic shock itself is a controversial subject, something pointed out in the wiki link you provided.
Many other conventional rounds (such as .40S&W or .357SIG) are "reputed" to cause hydrostatic shock too, so I continue to not see whats so special about 5.7mm.
1SOW
Member
RN is the most reliable feed shape while maintaining desired weight in the common magazine feed systems.
I believe the original German-designed cut-down rifle case 9mm luger used a 124gr rn FMJ.
The round nose also doesn't get damaged easily feeding from magazines to feed ramps to chamber seat "on the case mouth".
At least in my 9mms this is true: At normal SAAMI 9mm Luger bullet pressures/speeds, changing the nose shape has minimal/no affect on bullet speed or range.
I believe the original German-designed cut-down rifle case 9mm luger used a 124gr rn FMJ.
The round nose also doesn't get damaged easily feeding from magazines to feed ramps to chamber seat "on the case mouth".
At least in my 9mms this is true: At normal SAAMI 9mm Luger bullet pressures/speeds, changing the nose shape has minimal/no affect on bullet speed or range.
Yeah... And as stated several times that good reason was to beat body armor, which was becoming a lot more common on the battlefield.
Certaindeaf
member
I think the original 9x19 was the DWM 121 or so grain truncated cone.
i don't know why people think penetrating body armor as not practical for civilian, BG is not going to stand there naked let you shoot him like gelatin, he will take cover hide behind everyting he can find and wear thick cloth or even body armor, AP is a good thing, round nose is a bad thing, imo
We think it's not practical because most badguys that the average civilian will encounter probably won't have body armor. And even if they did, only Law Enforcement or the Military can buy armor piercing 5.7mm rounds.
So it wouldn't help you much to have a FiveSeven if you did encounter a badguy wearing body armor.
As for other barriers or thick clothing, those round nose bullets are proven to do just fine. In fact, barrier penetration is a key testing requirement for many modern hollowpoints.
everything equal i'd think pointed is much better than round nosed
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Well, you'd think wrong then.
I can see you think the 5.7 is the best cartridge ever invented.
It isn't, except in specific circumstances already cited.
It probably works well for certain uses in full-auto P90 PDW's with AP ammo.
Neither of which are available to the common man.
rc
I can see you think the 5.7 is the best cartridge ever invented.
It isn't, except in specific circumstances already cited.
It probably works well for certain uses in full-auto P90 PDW's with AP ammo.
Neither of which are available to the common man.
rc
Tcruse
Member
The 5.7x28 has not gotten the attention that it may deserve. When there is enough demand that Winchester and federal make both range and SD ammo in that caliber that will be the next step. Then, we will need a couple of the big name gun manufactures to chamber for it, like Glock and Ruger.
I have seen the ammo at my local Walmart.
I have seen the ammo at my local Walmart.
well don't put your words in my mouth, thank you
i just think pointy 5.7 is better than round 9
45_auto
Member
18% of Americans think that the sun revolves around the earth. 4% think that the earth is flat.
You're free to think whatever you want, nothing anyone can do about that. Up to you whether you're willing to learn or not.
A heavy jacket or a couch is not the same thing as 28 layers of woven Kevlar, and don't affect bullets in the same way.
To beat soft body armor, a projectile needs to be moving fast, and having a narrow cross section helps quite a bit.
Any bullet from a service caliber handgun or rifle is going to get through clothing just fine, there's no reason at all to sacrifice wounding (stopping) potential in order to make your ammunition better at penetrating something it already defeats without breaking a sweat.
ns66, I did consider the smaller caliber at higher velocity concept myself some years ago. Since then, I've come to the conclusion, which most are stating here, that in a handgun the larger frontal surface area of say a 45 automatic is much more affective for civilian self defense than the 22 calibers. I too like barrier penetration capabilities and that is why I prefer the 40, and 10MM in handgun protection. Don't get me wrong, I would not hesitate to use my 45 appropriately.
Is is good to consider the possibilities but don't discount what some of the guys are telling you. There is a lot of knowledge contained in their responses.
Is is good to consider the possibilities but don't discount what some of the guys are telling you. There is a lot of knowledge contained in their responses.
i 2nd that, i hope there are more companies giving us 5.7 option, more option is always a good thing
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i really don't get this, the BG breaks your door, you hear it, you grab your 9mm, he sees you, life and death, he hides behind door/table/shelf/fridge/... and starts firing, you shoot back, but, the round 9mm can't penetrate as well as 5.7, may skid off all kinds of angled surface, don't you wish your bullet has pointy nose and penetrate better?If the BG is hiding, I'm leaving my job is done
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