Three Day inspection period Starts ???

It says right in the auction:

Three Days from the date the item is received

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Assuming the gun was sent to an FFL, you would have three days from the day the FFL received the gun. If the FFL received the gun on Friday, I would say you would have until the close of business on Monday - Saturday first day, Sunday second day, Monday third day.

Now, if the FFL received the gun on Wednesday, then the three days would be Thursday, Friday and until the end of the day on Saturday.

This seems to be a dodge that some sellers use to try to avoid paying refunds. If it hasn't been three days, he should give a refund, no discussion. I haven't had a single gun that wasn't at least as good as I had expected, but a friend went through this with an S&W 686 he bought that was in pretty bad shape in person, but looked great in the pics the seller put up. My friend asked for his money back less than two hours after it arrived at the post office, and the seller didn't respond for two days, then claimed it was past the three day return limit. It got ugly. His cousin lived in the town the seller's store was in, and paid him a visit to discuss it. The seller took one look at the cousin and caved in. A deputy sheriff isn't someone you want as an enemy for $500. Good luck, I hope the guy ends up doing the right thing.

Sorry Mike, your inspection period was three days after the rifle was received. I understand you work long hours and it's a long way away, but you needed to be more proactive when "time is of the essence" in cases like this. Either you do what you have to do to get the rifle or else you accept that it's a done deal. I hear that you are frustrated and angry. That sort of emotion does not translate well on the internet.

Leave the seller truthful, accurate feedback in a reasonable and businesslike fashion. Don't exaggerate, don't talk about your schedule or how far the gunstore is, don't make accusations- just describe the faults with the rifle that the seller failed to properly disclose. Don't leave the seller any way to wiggle out of the bad feedback by gunbroker arbitration because of accusations, swearing etc, and don't make yourself look like a whiner by talking about your scheduling problems in the feedback. Just talk about the rifle.

Your post here on THR (respectfully, not trying to be a jerk to you) if it were posted as the feedback on gunbroker would make me feel that you are suffering buyer's remorse rather than a real problem and wouldn't really affect my opinion of the seller much. Think writing a police report rather than a forum post when you leave feedback. EVERYTHING looks better in pictures than in person- the lighting, the backgrounds, showing the best side...perhaps a bit fuzzy focus...photographic gold.

Good luck, and I am honestly sympathetic, having been there myself. I bought a shotgun, the seller had only shown one side of the gun in all his photos, and I never asked for more pix. Looked great, price was good, so I bought it. When I got it, I could clearly see a large pitted rust bloom bigger than a quarter that had been wire-brushed off the left barrel right at the chamber, which was (coincidence?) the side the seller never showed a picture of.

It says right in the auction:

Quote:
Three Days from the date the item is received

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I'm sorry, but Mike didn't receive the gun until Friday, and I think it is unreasonable to start the inspection period from the time the FFL receives an item. What happens when your FFL doesn't call you for a day or two? It's not the FFL who bought the gun, he's just handling the paper work, and the Buyer didn't receive the gun until Friday.

I would go to Gunbroker with this dispute.

Sam

I'm sorry, but Mike didn't receive the gun until Friday, and I think it is unreasonable to start the inspection period from the time the FFL receives an item.

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So you think it would be fine to leave the gun sitting at the FFL for a month or six months or a year, then expect the seller to take it back once you feel like taking a look at it? What do you think is reasonable for both sides? 3 days is the generally accepted time frame, and it seems reasonable to me. If you felt kindly enough to allow a week or a month on a gun you were selling, possibly more people would buy from you. Feel free to find out.

I feel 3 days is more than sufficient. If there's some legitimate reason you can't get to the FFL and inspect the gun within the 3 day period, you can aways contact the seller and explain your situation. Every one I know would extend the time. But if you agree to 3 days and don't contact anyone about an extension, don't start whining after 4 days.

What happens when your FFL doesn't call you for a day or two?

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I've bought a lot of guns online, through Gunbroker, Guns America, forums, etc. EVERY single one of them has sent me a tracking number when the gun was shipped that showed when the gun was going to be delivered to my FFL. I know exactly when it's going to get there. I can't imagine anyone in the US being unaware of this feature.

It's not the FFL who bought the gun, he's just handling the paper work, and the Buyer didn't receive the gun until Friday.

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Again, whose fault was that? If the buyer doesn't care enough to be able to make it to the FFL within 3 days of the gun arriving there, he shouldn't be buying guns online. I would expect to be able to tell if I was going to return a gun when I inspected it at my FFL. If it needed to go back, I would notify the seller from there and there would be no need to do the transfer.

Contact GunBroker.

As a FFL dealer I can see both points of view. The buyer should have three days to inspect the gun but there is always the chance that he may be unable to pick up the piece due travel, work or maybe the receiving dealer is closed for a few days.(We hunt too, you know?)

If my customer called me a week or two after the gun shipped I would take it back provided that it was in the same condition as shipped.

I have shipped over 100 guns this year and NONE have come back.

I can see both points of view

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So can I. This is why I have started using a LGS and paying $15 more for the transfer. They are open 7 days a week.....my old FFL that I have done business with for years started getting to the point where he acted like it was a real chore, sometimes taking several days for him to be able to have me over.

IMHO, the buyer doesn't have a leg to stand on. 3 days from the time the carrier drops off to FFL.

I am not familiar with gunbroker...is the inspection period chosen from a drop down list, or written in by the seller? If it is written in by the seller, then the seller should have been more clear about what "received" means.

"received" is when it is no longer in transit and at its destination - the FFL

Sorry-- have to agree with the others. The clock starts ticking as soon as the item is at your FFL. It's not the sellers problem that you have work and FFL issues-- that's your problem.

Frankly, the best way to handle the transaction is to do your examination while at the gunshop-- don't even fill out a 4473. If the gun is unsatisfactory, simply refuse the shipment, and pay your FFL to ship it back.



Enjoy your new gun.

Followup--- I just looked at the link. Excellent quality pictures, and lots of them (54!!). The scars, marks, and flaws are shown, with no effort to hide them.

Someone used the term "buyers remorse" above- I have to agree with them.

Seller is a weasel.....

NavyLCDR It says right in the auction:

Quote:
Three Days from the date the item is received

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Assuming the gun was sent to an FFL, you would have three days from the day the FFL received the gun...

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It doesn't say three days from when the dealer receives the firearm.
It also doesn't say three days from when the buyer actually receives the firearm.

The seller's inspection policy is clear as mud.


The seller is a weasel......counting the inspection time from the day the dealer received the firearm is ethically & morally deficient. While no buyer should expect to get six weeks of inspection time, its a little difficult to do an inspection while the firearm is not even in your possession. Shame on that seller.

evan price Sorry Mike, your inspection period was three days after the rifle was received.

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Sorry evan, but the policy doesn't say "three days after the rifle was received by the DEALER".

Buyer has a legitimate complaint.

SHOOT1SAM I'm sorry, but Mike didn't receive the gun until Friday, and I think it is unreasonable to start the inspection period from the time the FFL receives an item.

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Somebody gets it.

45_auto

Quote:
I'm sorry, but Mike didn't receive the gun until Friday, and I think it is unreasonable to start the inspection period from the time the FFL receives an item.

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So you think it would be fine to leave the gun sitting at the FFL for a month or six months or a year, then expect the seller to take it back once you feel like taking a look at it? What do you think is reasonable for both sides? 3 days is the generally accepted time frame, and it seems reasonable to me. If you felt kindly enough to allow a week or a month on a gun you were selling, possibly more people would buy from you. Feel free to find out.

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The SELLERS terms are lacking in clarity at no fault of the buyer.
Failing to pick up the firearm in a timely manner from your dealer is a different issue entirely. The buyer has NO CONTROL over the time frame in which his dealer completes the transfer.

Don't want a buyer reniging on the deal a month later? Then be clear on your inspection AND return policies. Something like "three day inspection once you take possession, no returns for any reason fourteen days after delivery to your dealer".

I've bought a lot of guns online, through Gunbroker, Guns America, forums, etc. EVERY single one of them has sent me a tracking number when the gun was shipped that showed when the gun was going to be delivered to my FFL. I know exactly when it's going to get there. I can't imagine anyone in the US being unaware of this feature.

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Whether you got a tracking number is immaterial. What DOES matter in this case is when the dealer is able and willing to complete the transfer.

I do 150-200 transfers every month.......zero, nada, zilch have ever been marked "this gun has a three day inspection period from the day YOU THe DEALER receive it". Sorry, the shipper/seller does not dictate my business hours.

Again, whose fault was that? If the buyer doesn't care enough to be able to make it to the FFL within 3 days of the gun arriving there, he shouldn't be buying guns online.

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You make a lot of assumptions......who said it was the buyer who was unable to complete the transfer? Take a few minutes and read the threads on this very forum about dealers who routinely delay transfers because their retail business is "too busy".

wow6599 .....IMHO, the buyer doesn't have a leg to stand on. 3 days from the time the carrier drops off to FFL.

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A small claims court would disagree.....the terms of the inspection period are unclear as to when the three days begins.

I would go with what the BATFE uses. It is when the 4473 is signed and executed. Only THEN has the buyer 'received' the firearm.

He can "threaten you with legal action" because he doesn't like the way you part your hair ... doesn't mean it's going anywhere.

That said ... 3100+ positive feedbacks to 14 negative (counting yours) since 2003. Lots and lots and lots of detailed photos.

What was "wrong" with the rifle?

wow6599 .....IMHO, the buyer doesn't have a leg to stand on. 3 days from the time the carrier drops off to FFL.

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dogtown tom .....A small claims court would disagree.....the terms of the inspection period are unclear as to when the three days begins.

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First off, I said IMHO. That means "in my humble opinion". Second, I'm not sure how you can say "a small claims court would disagree", and then say "the terms of the inspection are unclear as to when the three days begins".

How do you know a court would disagree if the terms are unclear?
IMHO, they are subject to interpretation. My opinion (interpretation) is that you have 3 days from the time the carrier drops it off to inspect and make up your mind.

FMJMIKE said:

Seller has now threatened me with legal action for just questioning his 3 day inspection policy. I guess it is illegal to have a difference of opinion.

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That's a little misleading.

There was no threat of legal action whatsoever.

What I told the buyer is that should he continue to publicly post accusations of fraud in a public forum such as the lively AR15.com thread with the clear intent of harming my business reputation, I will have no alternative but to forward all communications and internet postings to my attorney for legal recourse.


See this thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_2/379876_3_Day_Inspection_starts____.html&page=1

I am the seller of the rifle and the simple fact is that the buyer contacted me 34 hours after the 3-day inspection period had expired and requested a refund. I politely advised him that the 3-day inspection period had expired and the sale was final and that I would not be able to accept a return on the rifle.

I normally would not reply to a thread like this, but being that it directly involves a transaction that I was part of, it strikes me that posting ALL the facts would be a good thing to share before it gets completely out of hand.

Seller has now threatened me with legal action for just questioning his 3 day inspection policy

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ok, this would really get my dander up if it happened. Can we ask what was wrong with the gun that wasn't shown in the dozens of fairly good quality pictures?

Well, there are three sides to every story: plaintiff's, defendant's and the truth which is somewhere in between. I am very interested in hearing FMJMIKE's response....

and I notice RCArms.com felt the need to edit his original post too.....

Like two little kids poking at each other on the playground.

RCArms.com said:

There was no threat of legal action whatsoever.

What I told the buyer is that should he continue to publicly post accusations of fraud in a public forum such as the lively AR15.com thread with the clear intent of harming my business reputation, I will have no alternative but to forward all communications and internet postings to my attorney for legal recourse.

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Not that I'm taking sides here (see post 18), but, um, that sure sounds like "legal action" to me.

(PS ... I'm an on-line seller too. Have a fellow right now returning a Remington SpeedMaster 'cause he says the "barrel is bulged". Really, a semi-auto 22 with a bulged barrel? Really?

I just looked at the acution- what was WRONG with the rifle?? The seller had pictures of every nick and scratch and the parts seem to be all legit and operational. Garands are old enough for social security and Winchester Garands are not common at all. I'd call that one "Correct" grade, and if everything is at it seems in the photos your price paid is not out of line.