Interesting Article on the Birth of Ny Gun Laws

Both the "Sullivan Act" and N.Y. State's convoluted patchwork of County and City laws are a perfect haven/cash-cow for corrupt politicians and police who "administer" access to firearms permits. In one county where I lived a concealed weapon permit was easy to obtain as long as you were seen at the annual Democrat fund raising dinner ($100 per plate) In another county it required a $1000 "donation" to the judge's reelection campaign. Then there are the counties that require graduation from their gun safety course run by their off-duty (not really) sheriff's department deputies (for cash) In the class I took, the deputies also collected for their local chapter of the PBA expecting all of us to anti-up at least a $20 bill right in the beginning. (no checks, thank you)

People complain about how hard it is to get a pistol permit in New York State or even in the City, but actually it is easy if you have connections and money. I finally got fed up and moved out of the "corruptocracy" of New Yawk, leaving behind the crime, union-thugs, taxes, restrictions, permits, inspections, and regulations, not to mention totally crooked one-party politics. Come to the old South young man where people still live free!

Interesting straight forward article.

" Every state but Illinois has some form of concealed-carry permission — although some, like New York, California and New Jersey, are heavily restricted. Some sort of reciprocity is needed.

Meanwhile, savor the irony of an edict written by a corrupt politician to save his bad guys from the electric chair’s now being used against law-abiding citizens from other states."

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PLEASE get it correct

If you are stating facts then please check before you print.

I had lived in NYC for 25 years and then moved to Western NY.

NYC has its own laws [ should not be legal ] and NY State seems to also have STATE laws that are not part of the city laws.

In NY State you can get a CCW with little of no problems at all.

Have had mine for 36 years [ prior to becoming an LEO ] and it took a few months .

It is harder today due to so many requesting them,but about 5 of my close friends just got theirs and they are enjoying the freedom to CCW as a citizen should.

We do need NYS to allow reciprocity with all other CCW states.

Scaatylobo, the comments regarding NYS/NYC laws in both the article and following comments are fact-based, but are relative in relation to other states. You'll never convince anyone residing in Florida, Arizona, Vermont, etc that NYS carry laws offer the same liberties they enjoy, especially when the State cannot even reign in the City.
I don't think anyone said one cannot get a carry permit in New York (State.) It was just pointed out that it's not as easy as in the majority of other jurisdictions.
I agree with you that it's a shame that New York City and New York State have to be, for purposes of discussions of 2A rights, clarified as being different from one another. The only other similar example I can think of that's even close to that situation is the differences between California and the City of Los Angeles, though the state's firearms laws seem to be more restrictive than those of NYS, and the city's seem to be less restrictive than those of NYC.

scaatylobo said:

In NY State you can get a CCW with little of no problems at all.

Have had mine for 36 years [ prior to becoming an LEO ] and it took a few months .

It is harder today due to so many requesting them,but about 5 of my close friends just got theirs and they are enjoying the freedom to CCW as a citizen should.

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The timeframe, cost and availability of CCW in NY state outside of NYC varies widely. In many counties, you may get a license for home and range use, but not CCW. That is actually the default mode for many licensing agents (county judges mostly). For instance, Saratoga county is currently taking over a year to process applications, mainly due to the fact that the mandatory safety course is scheduled out that long. In some counties, the waiting period could be a few weeks and CCW is the default (no license restrictions).

Outside of NYC, NY is a strange and fractured place in terms of gun laws. Local laws in several cities restrict CCW, each licensing agent is free to add any obstacles to the pistol licensing process as they see fit and we are still stuck with the AWB.

OTOH, FTF transfers are legal for all long guns, ammo is not really restricted in most cases and most upstate communities outside a few cities have a fairly active gun culture (clubs, LGS nearby, etc).

One ironic thing about pistols in NY is that once you have an unrestricted permit, there are few places you can not carry, and private signs restricting carry are pretty much non-existent.

I couldn't imagine living like that. I still complain that we have to fill out paperwork for NFA items.

One ironic thing about pistols in NY is that once you have an unrestricted permit, there are few places you can not carry, and private signs restricting carry are pretty much non-existent.

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Speaking of irony.
At least here in western New York, it seems more self defense friendly here than in some other so called "gun friendly" states. I can't recall any SD shooting that the shooter was prosecuted or even had his or her gun confiscated.
It's nice to be able to have any kind of gun you want, but it's better to be able to use it when need arises.

NY is a weird multi-personality state. Some areas have draconian restrictions as tight as any in the country. In WNY and the Southern Tier you might as well be in Texas once you have your permit. The permit is a hassle but once your in the "club" it's pretty easy to deal with.

The deputy that finger printed me for my permit years ago was telling stories about his on duty shooting incident and giving me shooting tips while inking my fingers. He could not have been more Pro CCW.

It's just a weird state. The horrible laws in NYC get the press but most of us in WNY don't deal with that. Upstate NY is as Red as NYC is Blue.

I'll be moving to NY soon, I just wish I could take my handguns with me. Stupid state doesnt even allow me to have possession of them until I get a permit..

Have to leave them here and have them shipped after I HOPEFULLY get my permit.

"A right delayed is a right denied."

leftyz said:

I'll be moving to NY soon, I just wish I could take my handguns with me. Stupid state doesnt even allow me to have possession of them until I get a permit..

Have to leave them here and have them shipped after I HOPEFULLY get my permit.

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New York State Penal Law Article 35 defines under what circumstances an individual is justified in using force, especially deadly force to defend life or property. It's fairly easy to understand and not overly long. I suggest you read it.

http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article35.htm

Kenneth said:

It's nice to be able to have any kind of gun you want, but it's better to be able to use it when need arises.

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Many (most?) of the people outside of New York get both.

Love the title of the article

"The strange birth of NY's gun laws"

A crooked politician disarming the citizens so that the thugs that work for him can do their jobs more effectively? Nothing strange about it. Seems like standard operating procedure to me.

Here is an idea.

Given the "fractured" nature of New York State's may issue CCW laws and of course NYC's as well, I think it is almost certain that over a long period of time people have been illegally discriminated against when it comes to the issuance of handgun permits on the basis of race, religion, etc. If so then it should be possible to challenge the constitutionally of NY's handgun laws under the various Federal Civil Right laws now in affect.

Alan Gura, are you listening?

Alan Gura, are you listening?

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Hes busy mopping the floor with Ganslers A.. right now.

Leftyz why would you do a crazy thing like move to NY it sucks lol.

I'v lived in NY my whole life minus tech school and when the guard sends me away. Myself and a buddy from school who also happens to be in my unit applied for a Pistol Permit and were held up saying everything checks out references are good but we need to pay $500 to get a psych eval because we put military on our applications which we were told to do that it would "help". I'v put mine on hold till we get back from this deployment and see if there is anyway around this "fee" I got no prob talking to a shrink to see if I'm crazy I know I will pass that but I don't feel like paying $500 to have some one say I'm not crazy from the military.

From the Article >

The dedicated lifelong “public servant” left behind an estate valued at more than $2 million.

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That is quite a lot of money for a public servant especially during this time period. Corruption. My understanding is that most of the early gun laws were used to restrict certain groups of people from legally carrying a gun. This is a social injustice! The newer laws in most states make it much easier and equatable to obtain a CCW permit.

Michael A. Walsh, "The strange birth of NY’s gun laws", New York Post, 15 Jan 2012.

A keeper of an article, but nothing new to me.

Suzanne Novak, "Why the New York State System for Obtaining a License to Carry a Concealed Weapon is Unconstitutional", Fordham Urban Law Journal (November, 1998).
www.saf.org/LawReviews/Novak1.html

That's unconstitutional in violating New York State Constitution on due process and equal justice in the manner that gun licenses and permits are handled in contrast to how non-gun laws requiring licenses or permits are handled.

H.L. Menken had a classic article about NY crusaders attempting to export the Sullivan Law to the federal level.

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rkba-25.html
H. L. Mencken, "The Uplifters Try It Again", Baltimore Sun, 30 Nov 1925.

I wasn't around then (on a bad day I feel like I was around in the 1920s) but I was aware of gun issues in the 1960s when Madison Avenue ad exec Carl Bakal started a crusade to export NYC style gun control with articles like "This Very Day a Gun May Kill You!" and his book "NO Right to Bear Arms" (reviewed negatively by Library Journal as inaccurate and biased but touted by the "unbiased" news media as the "Unsafe at Any Speed" against the gun industry).

It is like every so often folks in the rest of America have some New Yorker (now its Michael Boomberg) trying to force the Sullivan Act on us.

Actually Tennessee did have a discretionary carry permit system at the whim of county sheriffs (some counties were virtually no issue), and application for permission to purchase with a waiting period up to 15 days, but we got over it and don't want it exported to us.

The Sullivan Act was passed just in time for Prohibition so that the criminals involved in the sale of illegal alcoholic beverage would not have to worry about regular folks having a firearm on their person. Prohibition didn't work. Gun laws don't work now.

Good thread!

It reminds me of the line from "The Thin Man":

Lieutenant John Guild: You got a pistol permit?
Nick Charles: No.
Lieutenant John Guild: Ever heard of the Sullivan Act?
Nora Charles: Oh, that's all right, we're married.

^ Heh. I remember that line. Reminds me of the Sherlock Holmes scene: "Have you got your revolver, Watson?" "Always, Holmes."

A few suggestions for Curator, Post #2:

I finally got fed up and moved out of the "corruptocracy" of New Yawk, leaving behind the crime, union-thugs, taxes, restrictions, permits, inspections, and regulations, not...

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1. You mispelled New Yawk. Should be Noo Yawk, the way it's pronounced.

2. For better tongue-trippingness, maybe you should say "graftocracy" instead of "corruptocracy."

I emigrated from Noo Yawk at an early age (20-ish) and was amazed at the "free air" out here in Colorado. Why, there were handguns for sale right there in store counters where everybody could see them through the glass. Gasp!

For six months after I bought my first handgun here, I couldn't help feeling like a criminal --closing the curtains before I examined it, etc.

Former Bvooklynite (that's the correct spelling and pronunciation for it),

Terry, 230RN

Good read, thanks for posting. I can't say that I'm surprised at all by the story.

Curator said:

Both the "Sullivan Act" and N.Y. State's convoluted patchwork of County and City laws are a perfect haven/cash-cow for corrupt politicians and police who "administer" access to firearms permits. In one county where I lived a concealed weapon permit was easy to obtain as long as you were seen at the annual Democrat fund raising dinner ($100 per plate) In another county it required a $1000 "donation" to the judge's reelection campaign. Then there are the counties that require graduation from their gun safety course run by their off-duty (not really) sheriff's department deputies (for cash) In the class I took, the deputies also collected for their local chapter of the PBA expecting all of us to anti-up at least a $20 bill right in the beginning. (no checks, thank you)

People complain about how hard it is to get a pistol permit in New York State or even in the City, but actually it is easy if you have connections and money. I finally got fed up and moved out of the "corruptocracy" of New Yawk, leaving behind the crime, union-thugs, taxes, restrictions, permits, inspections, and regulations, not to mention totally crooked one-party politics. Come to the old South young man where people still live free!

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The Sullivan act was/is racist to the bone, when implemented it's sole purpose was to deny firearms to blacks and swarthy skin colored southern Eupropean immigrants etc..