.308 Brass - What's Wrong with this Picture?

I suspect the shoulders need to be pushed back a bit, and running your die down may do it. Have you actually followed the Lee directions for this die? They are good and usually provide for a SAAMI-spec case that will chamber in any rifle.

You also need to make a dummy ( no powder or primer ) round and cycle it thru both rifles before you proceed.
I also reload for 308 but only 40 rounds at a time on a single stage , It takes me while to do it and I could not afford that many rounds incorrectly done.
Good luck

Remember that the chamber length is on the shoulder and not on the end of the neck. One easy solution is to buy a RCBS case micrometer on eBay for about $58 and you can easily determine what is happening. If you set your sizer die to the "0" measurement on the micrometer it removes all guessing. The "0" reading is about .003 longer than a new case and about .002 shorter than a fired case. Shooter

May want to use a case gauge aas well...I reload a LOT of 30.06 and use the gauge after resizing and then again after loading. For my guns -- an M1 Garand and a Win 70 (bolt) if it fits in the gauge it always chambers.

A cheaper tool is the 20$ lyman case gage - great thing to have. Checks for diameters, headspace, and OAL.

And in case you do make a batch that is not sized correctly (I have never done that ) the redding body die will easily get you back on track.

Sounds like a bulge from over crimping. No crimp needed.

Progressive Press Problems ???

djwalker60 ......

I am not familiar with the Hornady progressive press. However, some progressive presses have VERY unusual symptoms when ALL of the starions are not adjusted correctly.


This case was resized with a Dillon progressive press. The powder measure "height" incorrectly set when switching from handgun calibers to a rifle caliber.
Pretty fancy handload aye?

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.308 Brass

You didn't mention that you trimmed the cases. After firing they do elongate.

Innovative: Isn't that just a case designed for the new accordian-chambered FAL?

Dave P said:

A cheaper tool is the 20$ lyman case gage - great thing to have. Checks for diameters, headspace, and OAL.

Click to expand...

Shoulder position and overall length, yes. Diameters, no. Rifle case gauges are generally cut generously in the diameter of the body.

Check the manufacturer's description and specifications.

Progressive presses can be tricky ...

243winxb .... +1 .... there's no need to crimp a .308 Win.

Most dies are designed to be used with a common shellholder, and most progressive presses use shell plates. That could position your sizing die low enough to crimp your cases by surprise.

It's also important to know how far your shoulder is being pushed back. Excessive shoulder clearance can cause case head separation. This is a good thing for all handloaders to measure - and minimize.

djwalker60 ......

Your die height is important, and a progressive press requires extra attention in setting die height correctly. You already mentioned that you have experience reloading, and that led me think about all of the problems that even experienced reloaders run into with progressive presses.

Verify the height setting on ALL of your dies.

When you super the to images over each other, the shoulder on the case with the red line looks too aggressive.

But, if they aren't lined up 100%, that's not the precision tool it could be.... but I would still suggest checking the shoulders.

A note on case mouths- thats a LOT of chamfer ! I mean, A LOT. I have serious doubts that could be causing the problem, but thats very heavy !

Necks do thicken after a number of firings, especially right at the junction between the neck and the shoulder. This is caused by the body brass tending to flow forward under the pressure and heat of firing, as well as by the brass being drawn forward in successive sizing operations.

So it sounds possible that it's time for a little neck reaming. The last neck-sizing operation before charging and seating is the neck expansion, which would make the outside diameter of the neck oversized if the neck brass is too thick. Then you seat a bullet and the OD of the neck gets even greater.

" I measured a known good brass and the "bad" brass and measurements are same, well almost."

Once again the brass "accumulates," especially at that junction between the neck and the shoulder, which is difficult to measure and makes the brass difficult to chamber.

I had to inside-neck ream some .243 Win brass with a Letter "C" drill bit in my lathe to do this to eliminate that inside bump at that point. There doesn't seem to be a drill bit size corresponding to exactly .308, --Letter "N" and 5/16" bits fall on both sides of .308".

Forster, Wilson, and others make hand-operated inside-neck reamers/lathes. An example, from Forster:



This one will also length-trim the cases in the same operation by the setting the locking collar appropriately.

Do you know the history of that brass? It doesn't look as if it's been reloaded a number of times, but it could have been tumbled to clean it up.

I also noticed that the extraction cannelure is a little deeper and wider than the "feedable" brass, but I don't see that affecting the chambering.

Terry, 230RN

It has become the norm for reloaders, full length sizing to minimal length has become a lost art, I measure before and again after, if a case whips my press I know it, when my press wins I am not surprised.

With the minimum investment in tools and more time searching for answers that do not start with “Have I got a deal for you, let me sell you my tool... etc...” or “you gotta screw the die down more, start with 1/4” then continue until the top of the press is put into a 9 line bind (oil field talk_).

Again, I measure before and again after, I measure the length of the chamber from the bolt face to its shoulder first, I know how to adjust my die to achieve the desired length of the case from the head of the case to its should if I do not choose to use cases that have more resistance to sizing than the ability of my press to overcome the resistance.

Not all of my presses have the same ability to overcome resistance, I am not the fan of abusing a press.

Again, my favorite tool for overcoming the dies inability to overcome resistance and chamber length is the companion tool to the press, the feeler gage. Inability and chamber length, that would include chamber that are .012” shorter than a minimum length case to a +.016” longer than a minimum length/full length sized case without grinding the bottom of the die and or top of the shell holder, that includes the need for Redding Competition shell holders, expensive but not necessary, nice to have? Still not necessary.

F. Guffey

Are you lubing inside of the case mouth I have had cases on the out stroke get real sticky and have enough pull to make them to long by streching neck back out.

“I also noticed that the extraction canelure is a little deeper and wider than the "feedable" brass, but I don't see that affecting the chambering”

If you did not measure the depth and the width of the extractor grove first a difference will not have a value, The extractor grove would not get deeper and or wider? with heavy loads you would have just the opposite effect, again, Who measures? I thought there was a difference extractor groves, all my shell holders are not alike, there are some shell holders that allow me to shorten the deck height of the shell holder, lowering the deck height allows me to increase the effect of sizing overcoming case resistance to sizing, some shell holders do not offer the advantage, but offer other advantages. Lowering the deck height of the shell holder also allows me to increase the dies ability to shorten the case from the head of the case to its shoulder.

It does not take me long to look at it, I know when my press whips the case, I know when the case whips my press.

I start by knowing if my die has the ability to size a case to minimum length/full length size. I have Herters dies, Pacific dies, Weatherby dies, Hornady dies, Hollywood Gun Shop dies, Lyman dies, C&H dies, Lochmiller dies, Texan dies, I do not have to start over when I change dies, I simply adjust my sizer die to or off the shell holder every time I use them, and I do not secure the lock ring to the die, I secure the die to the press with the lock ring.

F. Guffey

Had the same thing happen years ago using Lee dies. Was an intermitant problem, Went away when I switched to RCBS dies.

rangerrick64 said:

Are you lubing inside of the case mouth I have had cases on the out stroke get real sticky and have enough pull to make them to long by streching neck back out.

Click to expand...

+1
Too much or too little lube can cause all kinds of unexpected problems. Do not lube the shoulders or outside of necks.

I read twice, but I still might have missed this: are you having trouble chambering your resized brass or your loaded cartridges? If it is loaded cartridges, you could have your bullets seated too far out. There should be tell-tale marks on the bullet itself where it has engaged the rifling if that is the problem. If you are using pulled military bullets or the bulk FMJ 145-150gr type bullets, sometimes the ogives aren't quite as uniform as they might be no a match bullet, and some bullets might engage the rifling while others might not, even if they have the same OAL.

It might be worth trying to chamber your resized brass which could also tell you if your problems have to do with some sort of problem with the neck thickness or crimp. If the resized, unloaded cases won't load, it probably has to do with the shoulder being too far forward.