The time has come for compromise...

Never going to happen. The majority of people have no concept of anything pertaining to NFA, GC 68'. Match that with the fact that so many people dont truly understand what semi-auto firearms are. Hell Ill say it. On the other side of the isle people dont want semis in the hands of private citizens less let the fun switch.

Silencers would be nice and are slowly working their way to limited access but IMO the major application is not one that they can be legally applied to well-Hunting.

I have to unapologetically and emphatically argue the precise opposite. Now is the time for blunt and stubborn refusal. Now is the time to let our leaders know we expect them to dig in like cornered badgers and take the snout off any dog who sticks his head down that hole.

Brazenly threaten to kill pet legislation in committee, defund programs, obstruct budgets, every dirty trick in the book if they cross the 2A red line.

NO COMPROMISE.

Now may not be the time to GET anything. I think it's a bad time to go bartering, or be of the mindset that anything's negotiable. Now's the time to draw a line and bunch up behind it.

...is there a risk...

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Always

VA27 said:

there's no way around it. That being the case, what do we ask for, say in an exchange for immigration amnesty?

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This is making a great assumption about the political beliefs of "We".


(remember Reagan campaigned on free and open borders with Canada and Mexico and signed the Simpson-Mazzoli Act)

Texan Scott said:

I have to unapologetically and emphatically argue the precise opposite. Now is the time for blunt and stubborn refusal. Now is the time to let our leaders know we expect them to dig in like cornered badgers and take the snout off any dog who sticks his head down that hole.

Brazenly threaten to kill pet legislation in committee, defund programs, obstruct budgets, every dirty trick in the book if they cross the 2A red line.

NO COMPROMISE.

Now may not be the time to GET anything. I think it's a bad time to go bartering, or be of the mindset that anything's negotiable. Now's the time to draw a line and bunch up behind it.

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+ 1000.

The antis and the left would push compromise until all we had left were single shot .22 rifles. We as voters need to let our legislators know there will be a hell of a day of reckoning in 24 short months if they come anywhere near the 2A. We may now be a minority group, but we are stronger than any army if we stand together with one voice.

I will say that the 2A is likely doomed and will be seriously declawed over the next 4 years. There is little to get in the way. WE have a 5-4 court, which may very well change. We have a anti-gun majority in the Senate and an anti-gun President who has called for a war on guns. The next major gun violence occurs and we'll almost certainly see a bill proposed and supported by the anti-gunners on Capitol Hill.

WE put an anti-gunner up against an anti-gunner incumbent. Are WE MORONS?! It is clear that protecting the 2A is soooo far down on the list of priorties for both parties... and while it should be near the top for domestic security, it just simply isn't.

I talk to COUNTLESS pro-gun people who either didn't vote or voted for Obama because they did not see a difference in the parties with regard to the 2A.

And in the debates, when Obama called for another AWB for "military style weapons" AND handguns, where was the outrage?!?!?!?!?! And Romney could have sealed a win if he would have just said, "20 years ago, the political climate was different and I made a mistake in siding against the 2A; I was wrong and that won't happen again. I will stand against any gun control and try to repeal stupid laws on the books." He would have had nearly every gun owner in his corner. But nope. Stupidly had was very wishy washy on the 2A.

As for compromising; I say we MUST change course in general or it won't matter. We are about to fall off of a cliff, guns or not. With the projected $20 Trillion in debt, we are screwed as a nation. That is an insurmountable debt to erase. Simply put there is no ability to pay that off in my lifetime. We'd have to completely stop spending any money and tax everyone at 100% for decades.

America was taken over by outsiders, whites, in the 1400s. America is going to be taken over by hispanics in my lifetime. Hispanics will keep voting in the party that gives them more power. Like it or not, Hispanics made the difference in the election and it's a sign of times to come. We can blame the politicians from both parties over the last 30 years for not closing that darn border. Now it will never happen under either party's watch because it's political suicide. Illegals have flooded in at unchecked rates, and now are going to get amnesty from ONE party, the Democrats. Whether by ingenious design or accident, those MILLIONS of votes will continue to go toward anti-gun politicians.

The Pro-gun party controls the house. Senate is a stalemate. And there's always executive order.... very scary days ahead for gun owners and the 2A. Elections have grave consequences and sadly I think we will see drastically reduced 2A rights in the next four years, to include the appointment of anti-gun SCOTUS members.

If the Republicans simply run interference on a popular President, and are viewed as obstructionists, then in 2014, Dems will win more seats and control everything... We are in a real pickle.

leadcounsel said:

Hispanics will keep voting in the party that gives them more power.

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whut? What "power"?

USAF_Vet said:

We as voters need to let our legislators know there will be a hell of a day of reckoning in 24 short months if they come anywhere near the 2A. We may now be a minority group, but we are stronger than any army if we stand together with one voice.

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That already happened in 1996, and they learned their lessons the hard way.

Texan Scott said:

Brazenly threaten to kill pet legislation in committee, defund programs, obstruct budgets, every dirty trick in the book if they cross the 2A red line.

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This isn't about compromising on the 2nd Amendment. This thread is about what kind of 2nd Amendment improvements could accompany the impending immigration reform.

I'm with Texan all the way.

"It is the unquestionable natural right of all free people to own and carry weapons to protect and provide for themselves, their families, and others, to defend the safety of people and property, and preserve common law and order. This right shall not be abridged, denied, or infringed by any act of government, to include regulation, record keeping or registration, narrow definition, taxation, or any other act which has the intent or effect of limiting or impeding this right of free people."

Ratify this as the next amendment to the US Constitution, and then we can discuss anything. Until then, it's still badger hole time AFAIC.

Texan Scott said:

I have to unapologetically and emphatically argue the precise opposite. Now is the time for blunt and stubborn refusal. Now is the time to let our leaders know we expect them to dig in like cornered badgers and take the snout off any dog who sticks his head down that hole.

Brazenly threaten to kill pet legislation in committee, defund programs, obstruct budgets, every dirty trick in the book if they cross the 2A red line.

NO COMPROMISE.

Now may not be the time to GET anything. I think it's a bad time to go bartering, or be of the mindset that anything's negotiable. Now's the time to draw a line and bunch up behind it.

Click to expand...

Amen

I think leadcoucel is spot on. However, I don't think the restrictions will come initially from legislation, but Executive Order and regulations on ammo. He's right though, another mass shooting, and we will here the calls for restrictions on semi-auto rifles, and handguns.

Right now, I'm not concerned about actual legislation. Reid sets the agenda in the senate, and besides whatever other issues I have with him, he is solidly pro-gun. The democratic makeup of the house is actually overwhelmingly pro-gun. It won't be a bill. The other problem this administration has, is that they are already pushing the limits of what can be done through executive order. I just can't see them even trying to enact an executive order of a law that has already been a law and that has since lapsed. What they CAN do is get creative about re-writing BATFE rules and DOJ guidelines for prosecution. I'm more worried about the U.N. arms treaty than I am about a new AWB.

FWIW, lest anyone think I'm unclear on the OP's intent- I understand that he is not talking about compromising on 2A issues... he's talking about compromising on immigration reform to achieve some specious 2A benefit.

Let me be clear. I have no intent or desire to discuss immigration or race issues in this forum. I simply do not believe that a) we should HAVE to compromise ANYTHING to secure what is already our right, and b) I do not believe for an instant that the current administration would ever consider relaxing its hold on gun control even if we did offer to barter for it.

I submit my opinion that treating a 2A issue as something the government might give or withhold betrays a hint of the mindset that we ACCEPT to some extent that they have the legitimate authority to do so. To anti-2A sharks, that's just blood in the water.

The current administration will not give us anything on that front. I simply feel it best to make it abundantly clear that we will give nothing but grief to keep what is ours.

MAKE NO CONCESSIONS - ACCEPT NO 'GRACIOUS PERMISSION'.

NO COMPROMISE.

^^ Concur.

Compromise was what they did when they drafted and debated the Constitution. Once it was ratified it became and is still the law of the land; we have compromised it far too much already.

Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
Hispanics will keep voting in the party that gives them more power.
whut? What "power"?

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The power to vote, to get licenses and "free" entitlements like another minority, to not be prosecuted for being here illegally, and on and on. Most, especially those who came from Mexico and Central America have lived with extreme gun violence for most of their lives - therefore, to them, gun control is a must and they will side with that group

This is making a great assumption about the political beliefs of "We".

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This.

I have long believed that it is a huge mistake to associate the 2ndA with unrelated issues that cater to the subset of gun owners who are social conservatives, as that term is now understood with regard to religion, immigration, etc. Many of us, and likely a majority of us, do not fit that category.

Allowing unrelated "culture war" issues to be associated with RKBA activism would be the surest way to divide the RKBA community, IMO.

Texan Scott said:

"It is the unquestionable natural right of all free people to own and carry weapons to protect and provide for themselves, their families, and others, to defend the safety of people and property, and preserve common law and order. This right shall not be abridged, denied, or infringed by any act of government, to include regulation, record keeping or registration, narrow definition, taxation, or any other act which has the intent or effect of limiting or impeding this right of free people."

Ratify this as the next amendment to the US Constitution, and then we can discuss anything.

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Huzzah!

leadcounsel said:

America is going to be taken over by hispanics in my lifetime. Hispanics will keep voting in the party that gives them more power. Like it or not, Hispanics made the difference in the election and it's a sign of times to come. We can blame the politicians from both parties over the last 30 years for not closing that darn border. Now it will never happen under either party's watch because it's political suicide. Illegals have flooded in at unchecked rates, and now are going to get amnesty from ONE party, the Democrats. Whether by ingenious design or accident, those MILLIONS of votes will continue to go toward anti-gun politicians.

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How true.

"It is the unquestionable natural right of all free people to own and carry weapons to protect and provide for themselves, their families, and others, to defend the safety of people and property, and preserve common law and order. This right shall not be abridged, denied, or infringed by any act of government, to include regulation, record keeping or registration, narrow definition, taxation, or any other act which has the intent or effect of limiting or impeding this right of free people."

Click to expand...

Gotta say, that sounds good.

And I will not agree that just because the Hispanic vote will grow, it will always remain liberal or anti-gun. Right now, the Hispanic vote swings left in hope of an immigration agreement. Once there is some closure on that issue, there will not necessarily be a reason for them to stay that way.

The time has come for compromise...

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Reminds me of the quote from "The Road Warrior." When Humungus gives his speech about wanting to compromise... "just leave your pump, your oil, that fat tanker of gas, and I'll spare your lives... just walk away, and I'll give you safe passage in the wasteland..."

No thanks.

mljdeckard said:

. Right now, the Hispanic vote swings left in hope of an immigration agreement. Once there is some closure on that issue, there will not necessarily be a reason for them to stay that way.

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Cubans and Puerto Ricans used to vote Republican. Used to.

Immigration is a non-issue for both groups.


http://www.news-press.com/article/2...istorically-low-among-Cubans?odyssey=nav|head