Decision point. Which state to live in? CO, UT, WA, NH

Status
Not open for further replies.

leadcounsel

member
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
5,365
Location
Tacoma, WA
Need some help from fellow THR'ers.

I've got about 12-18 months before I decide to move states, again. I have no significant strings (at the moment) so my choices are vast. This is about gun laws and gun sports and outdoorsmanship, so please keep this gun related. But like any life choices, those are not the ONLY factors. So please chime in about any other relevant things to consider, such as crime (which goes to S&T), taxes (which goes to disposbile income for gun sports), political trends (which goes to availability of things like large capacity magazines, suppressors, etc.), etc.
My plan is to set up my own criminal defense firm, ideally near an Army base because I have significant Army criminal law experience.

Colorado: My law license is from Colorado, so that would be the easiest. I can get reciprocity with varying ease/difficulty from other states. My most significant friends and contacts live in metro Denver, and I loved living in Colorado for the outdoors sports - particularly snowboarding. I left in 2006 and believe the 'gunshow loophole' has closed. How does that effect FTF transactions, which used to be very simple. Also, parts of Colorado, I think Denver and possibly Aurora, have bans in high-cap magazines and possibly other things that survived the AWB. Please advise. Denver also has "pitt bull" laws, which I disagree with. My dog is not a Pitt, but frequently gets confused as a Pitt, and that causes problems. Getting a concealed carry permit in Colorado required a class, background check, a fee and a 3 month wait. Weather/geography is dry and landlocked. Excellent mountains for recreation. Lastly, a consideration about critters - rattle snakes and poisonous spiders are a minus (a consideration for pets and future kids). Colorado has Army/Airforce bases in Colorado Springs and Airforce in Aurora.

Washington State: I have a nice house in Washington state where I currently live. However, I will likely not want to remain in this house/location for business reasons. I need to move closer to Tacoma. So I will likely be moving, even if just locally. I have some contacts now in Washington state in the legal profession. WA does allow suppressors, which is a good sign. While I don't have any, it's a good trend. There are no hi-cap restrictions here. WA is a mix between environmentally friendly folks (which I agree with) and pro-gun folks. The only gun law here that I don't like is the 5 day wait on handguns, which is waived if you have a carry permit. Getting the carry permit is cheap and easy. Background check and a fee and it's available quickly by mail. Recreation here is also plentiful - it's a much more water-friendly part of the world. So more boating/kayaking and more rain. Don't think there's really many bad critters here such as rattlers or serious spiders (a consideration for pets and future kids). WA has a large Army base near where I currently live, Ft. Lewis.

Utah: I've visited UT twice and it's breathtaking. Many national parks and the mountains are hard to beat for recreation. People seemed friendly enough. Gun laws are reportedly one of the best states in the nation. Other than that I don't know much about UT.

New Hampshire: My only consideration for moving there would be to pursue a woman in Boston. She is stuck in that region permanently. Obviously Boston and MA is about as anti-gun as anywhere. I would be spending a lot of time in Boston with her, which I cringe at the thought of. Anyone here that is Pro-gun and forced to live in an anti-gun region, and how does it effect you? Frankly, I'm just not willing to give up my gun rights for anyone. I could maybe tolerate brief periods of being disarmed, but long term - no way. I look at visiting there as an international trip to Europe, where you just have to accept 'no guns' and have fun. But I could not live there. NH would be the ultimate compromise. How are the gun laws, recreation, taxation in NH, Vermont, Maine, etc.?
 
Last edited:
Leadcouncel, I would advise a move to Colorado, there is a lot going on in the Legal world (my wife is a Paralegal) and you can be near everything but still live in a beautiful setting away from the noise and crowding. Also, we can always use more 2A friendly lawyers. I have lived in Washington near Vancouver and returned to Colorado near Loveland/Fort Collins several years ago without regret. Washingtons nice but too much rain and not enough sun.
There are a fair amount of shooting opportunities, ranges, competitions, as well as hunting. Asside from some extremely liberal enclaves, the state is mostly gun friendly.
Good luck in whatever you choose. :)
 
Out of your choices: CO.

With that said, ever consider Arizona?

Moved to Scottsdale from New York City and could not be happier - gorgeous weather and the mountains are just under 2 hours away...

Great gun laws too...
 
Colorado hands down IMO. Ive been here a few years and i absolutly love it. Beautiful scenery, Decent weather year round. I dont think i want to live anywhere else again.

I grew up in South Dakota which was quite uneventful. Really the only thing i had to do that was really fun was shooting and hunting. Here in CO i can shoot and hunt all i want but i also have much more options for stuff to do. Hiking, Rockclimbing, Parkour, Kayaking, tubing, snowboarding, Offroading in the mountains. There is just to many fun things to name!

Simply put ill probably breathe my last breath in this wonderful state.
 
Re Utah, there's one signficant Army base, Tooele Army Depot, about 40 miles southwest of SLC. No idea if it's currently big enough to generate much income. Downsized a bit since the 90s.
A sizable Air Force base about 50 miles north of SLC. Could be lots of business there, if you can transition from Army to Air Force.

Liberal on guns, no mag restrictions, no waiting periods. Suppressors & Class III fine.
Carry permit easy to get & wide reciprocity in other states.

Wide range of rugged terrain & "civilized" amenities, open carry OK (but use your head), huge areas of public land to explore & shoot on if that interests you.

Liquor laws are a bit odd, but you can get your wine with dinner if you want.
Harder stuff, too.
Denis
 
Colorado would be a good choice in my opinion although Denver is extremely gun unfriendly. The rest of the state is very nice although you may want to leave out Boulder, they seem to idolize Berkley Ca.

In Washington you may own a suppressor but you can not attach it to a firearm. :mad: Washington also does not allow full auto unless they have changed that recently.

Utah can be an extremely closed place outside of SLC unless you are LDS. Great gun laws though. Great skiing also.

I grew up in the Dakotas, went to school and worked in Utah for a number of years and now live in Oregon. My inlaws are all Utahans. My gunclub does a couple of machine gun shoots each year and we get a number of Washington folks that show up.

I would recommend Colorado given your trade and choices.

allan
 
Living in Loveland I have to also throw a pitch for Colorado. I would advise staying out of the metro area just because of the leftist tilt, which is also a good reason to stay out of Ft Collins and Boulder. We lived in Ft Collins for 20 years but moved to Loveland 5 years ago. There are still some good deals on nice homes to be had....
 
My vote is for CO.

Colorado is a great state, and Denver is a very cool city, within easy striking distance to many outdoor things. The only notable exception would be the beach.

Within a 1 hour drive from Denver, you have the plains, mountains, grasslands, with more skiing, mountain biking, fishing, hiking, whatever.

You mentioned outdoorsports, and if hunting is inlcuded, we have lots of big game.

Colorado is also a relativelly "healthy" state, one of the lowest obesity rates.

Denver does have an "assault weapon" ban, as well as no open carry.

RMGO is a good resource for some of you gun related questions.

http://www.rmgo.org/gun-law-faqs/assault-weapons

That being said, what most people don't understand is "Metro Denver" is a pocket within the "Denver" area, and that ban does not hold true for the area in general.

I have a house in "metro Denver", and I can drive 15 blocks west, and am now no longer in the Metro Area . Actually in a different municipality altogether.

CCW permits are issues by the city/county, and lead times vary. I took my class, applied, and I think 3 weeks later my card showed up. I think it all depends on where you are in line when you apply. If you are millitary, I believe you can waive the class.

Considering your law lic is in CO, I would think it would be easier to apply for a new CCW permit in CO, than a new law lic. I could be wrong.

My vote is for CO. I moved here with the intention of of staying 1 winter, and now it's 15 years later.
 
If you come to Utah, I can walk you into the state guard HQ and introduce you to the JAG staff. I have no idea what their current staffing situation is, but I know that in the past there have been open slots for AGR full time JAG officers.

And I'll teach you the Utah CCW class for free. If you're coming to town, let me know.
 
Regarding Utah....

Tooele Army Depot is probably too small to generate a living. Tooele is a nice enough town, and actually pretty close to SLC airport, which is on the west side of SLC. Access to SLC isn't bad, but it's not the most convenient place to access a big downtown.

Hill Air Force Base is in Layton, north of SLC and just south of Ogden. IIRC, about 30,000 people work there. It is a major repair depot for the F16 and C130.

The firearms laws here are about as good as you can ask for. Permits are "shall issue". A CCW permit holder can literally walk into a school with a concealed weapon. If someone breaks into your home, hotel room, or camp, you are justified in using deadly force if you fear serious bodily harm.

The raccoons have pretty badly hurt the pheasant population. But they've brought in wild turkeys, which are doing extremely well. Deer aren't as plentiful as they once were, but apparently the elk population is doing very well. You can get once in a lifetime tags for moose, bison, and bighorn sheep. The draw for pronghorn (my favorite hunt) is very iffy, but you can get a nonresident Wyoming tag at a reasonable price.

Cost of housing is lower than the national average. The weather is milder than where I grew up in Idaho. We grow cherries and peaches here, if that gives you an indication of climate.

The state firearms law guru is Mitch Vilos.

Our official state firearm is the 1911.

You can forget the rubbish about being excluded if you are non-LDS. If you express an interest in the socials, you can pretty much depend on invitations to church dinners and social events, and there is plenty of social life apart from the LDS Church.

Within an easy drive of my house there are a couple of big reservoirs for boating, water skiing, and fishing. I'm about 3 hours from Yellowstone/Teton, and reasonable driving distance from Capitol Reef, Zion, and Bryce Parks.

Best shooting range in the state is probably the one in Price. Built with coal royalties, it offers 1,000 yard and 600 yard shooting lanes with an ATV to take you out to your target, automatic retrieving pistol lanes, and a faux western town for cowboy action shooting. There are plenty of other ranges in the state, including the one in Kaysville where I shoot.
 
I'll put in a plug for Arizona for your consideration. So far as gun control laws are concerned, we don't have any, except for what the Fed's impose. Several large and medium sized military posts and stations. Any kind of weather you want depending on where you locate.

You could do worse...
 
New Hampshire: My only consideration for moving there would be to pursue a woman in Boston. She is stuck in that region permanently. Obviously Boston and MA is about as anti-gun as anywhere. I would be spending a lot of time in Boston with her, which I cringe at the thought of. Anyone here that is Pro-gun and forced to live in an anti-gun region, and how does it effect you? Frankly, I'm just not willing to give up my gun rights for anyone. I could maybe tolerate brief periods of being disarmed, but long term - no way. I look at visiting there as an international trip to Europe, where you just have to accept 'no guns' and have fun. But I could not live there. NH would be the ultimate compromise. How are the gun laws, recreation, taxation in NH, Vermont, Maine, etc.?

i will tell you that if you do end up moving to NH, you can apply for( and most likely receive) a Mass non-resident LTC A, which would allow you to conceal carry anywhere in Mass, including Boston.

just something to think about.
 
Non-native in Utah where I've lived for the last 20+ years and have no complaints. Plenty of outdoor opportunities and a gun friendly state. If the state legislature names the official firearm as the 1911, it cannot be bad. Sure, there may be some culture shock but peopole make a big deal out of nothing. You can get culture shock anywhere. I would sure hate to leave the mountains. Utah's economy is doing better than many states and the state is financially on good ground.
 
Last edited:
I've been dreaming of Utah for a while now. If I didn't have family where I am now, I would probably be in the sticks of Utah. Like said before, lots of public land to do hikes, camping and shooting. Awesome scenery as well with the mountains.
 
I wouldn't make my #1 priority on considering a place to move gun laws (or women). But respect that they are part of the equation.

Mt Rainer in Washington state is amazing so just stay put. Or move near the military bases in Colorado. Or move to UT. Nice thing is you've got options.
 
I think of moving "west". Kind of like cleaning up and fixing up your old car when you get new car fever...explore, use and appreciate what you've got where you currently live. Then if an opportunity presents itself elsewhere, looking back you'll know you fully appreciated and enjoyed where you lived previously.
 
This would hopefully be my last move. For additional consideration, the state has to be relatively "red" and relatively immune from stupid future legislation. Sadly, UT is the only one of the states I've picked that are currently "red," the others are "blue."

@mljdeckard - if I end up in UT, I will look you up for certain.

I have lived in TN and still have a really nice house there. Great state and definately in my top 10, but not top 5 to settle.

Also, I love Arizona, but need to live someplace with a real winter and snowboarding nearby.
 
Logan, UT has always looked like a nice place to be to me.

I would not live in a state Obama carried, so CO is out. Too many transplanted Californians there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top