What do you think the most reliable/rugged .22lr is

None. I also haven't rammed a Kia head-on into a tractor trailer but I can certainly tell you which will be more likely to drive away. The OP didn't ask if most any .22 rifle would outlast he and his grandchildren. He asked which would survive the head-on.

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Fact is, tubular magazines are as old as cartridges themselves. It is truly a rare thing for one to become damaged. I've been shooting them for 30yrs and have never had an issue, nor even heard of one. The question was what rifles are rugged and reliable. Tubular magazines have long proven themselves. The question was not which rifle would survive being run over by a truck or dropped off a mountain. Even if it were, unless you're dropped them all off mountains or run all of them over with a truck, it is an impossible question to answer with any certainty. Bottom line is that NO design is proofed against such abuse.

Fella's;

I had a Savage MKII bolt gun. Now I have a CZ452, and don't regret the change in the least little bit. But, without gross stupidity being involved, I think a vintage Marlin model 39 is right in there too.

900F

Craig C wrote

There's a lot of argument here and most of it seems to be based in opinion. How many .22 rifles have the folks here had that were NOT "rugged and reliable", whatever that means??? I can say that I have worn out a Marlin 60 but that's about it. I can also say that I have never had an issue with boltguns, pumps, leverguns or Ruger 10/22's. Although I must temper that with the fact that I have never abused my guns, intentionally or otherwise. I have never run over one with a truck, dropped one in the river for a few weeks or dropped one off a mountain. Bottom line is that a firearm is a mechanical device and any mechanical device can malfunction or become damaged to the point of being inoperable. Virtually any good quality .22 rifle, with sensible maintenance and care, will last at least lifetime of use. If not several.

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Craig now you have made me curious. How many rounds did it take to wear out a model 60? did you keep track?

As for the OP I have no idea what the most reliable & rugged design is. I've got a couple of old Marlin 60's & they shoot well. They are an excellent value in my opinion. I did have to replace the nylon buffer in the one my Dad had when he died. I replaced it in 2010 IIRC. The rifle was manufactured in 1985. He got it used from his landlord at the time in the late 80's or early 90's. So after 25 years & I have no idea how many rounds I had to replace a five dollar part. That was okay in my opinion. I was annoyed about being charged ten dollars for shipping & handling on that little piece of nylon though.

What do you think the most reliable/rugged .22lr is

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The question was not which rifle would survive being run over by a truck or dropped off a mountain. Even if it were, unless you're dropped them all off mountains or run all of them over with a truck, it is an impossible question to answer with any certainty.

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I didn't spin the question, I used an analogy. It is not impossible to logically deduce whether a simple system will tend to be more robust than a more complicated, high part count one. It may not always be so as there are always variables but, given good examples of both it is my deduction that simpler will have fewer potential faults.

Once the extractor was replaced and upgraded, my Remington 597 got a lot more reliable. The stock ones are iffy, Volks-something makes a great replacement.

The magazine tube on my brothers early 70's Marlin-Glenfield rifle was damaged and had to be replaced. The inner tube on the rifle was made of a seamless brass tube, but the outer brass tube had a seam that wasn't even joined together. It was more like a flat piece of brass rolled into a long tube with the seam placed under the barrel. As long as the inner tube was inserted into the outer tube the thing was fairly stout and unlikely to be damaged.

Unfortunately, one time when he was reloading, the rifle slipped out of his hands and the tube hit against a rock, taking a pretty substantial ding that prevented the inner tube from being fully inserted. He took the rifle to a Gunsmith and was told that this was a fairly common problem with that particular model of rifle.

I'm not trying to bash tube type magazines here, just pointing out that like anything else, they can break, and it doesn't take being run over by a truck or falling off a mountain to do it.

As I said in my first post, if ruggedness and reliability are the ONLY factors that you're basing your decision on, a single shot of some sort is almost certain to be more reliable since there's no magazine or feeding mechanism to break other than your fingers, and they're not a gun part.

I've seen .22 tube magazines damaged to the point that they didn't work. In fact, when I'm fondling a used .22 with a tube magazine, that's usually the reason I don't buy it - the seller usually doesn't want to reduce the price enough to make it worth me messing around with fixing it.

That said, I like 'em. Makes me think of my childhood, dumping rounds through the little .22 cartridge-shaped window until the nose of the last one sticks up into the opening, sliding the inner tube back down into it, and then plinking away.

I've got a neat little single shot bolt action .22, a Marlin. My kid's rifle, but sometimes I kidnap it to go hunt rabbits with a handful of HV hollowpoints. Something in the bolt broke, had to take it to a gunsmith to get it fixed. $35.00. Annoyed me, since it was supposed to be under warranty, but Marlin and Remington were having trouble with all that by then.

My FIL has an old Remington single shot bolt .22 every kid in their family learned to shoot on. Neat old rifle. MIL loves to take it to the range.

Most of the time, any .22 I'm shooting just shoots 'n shoots. It's not a terribly high pressured round, and most quality .22 rifles will last longer than their owners. What more do you want from them?

How many rounds did it take to wear out a model 60? did you keep track?

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No idea. It was a lot but not as many as you would expect. My oldest 10/22 has most assuredly surpassed its round count by now and is still going strong. With the distinct advantage of being much easier to clean, which doesn't happen very often anyway.

The Marlin model 60 is simplicity itself to take apart and clean.

Putting the !&#*/@% thing back together after you clean it on the other hand....:banghead:

It's been decades since the last time I took one apart, so they may not be as bad as I recall, but in my mind, they're still a major pain.

Great, accurate little rifles, just a bear to reassemble after cleaning.

I think my brothers used to take them to school and clean them in the parts washer at the Vo Ag shop. Probably not an option these days...

S and W ss revolver.

Do you guys really think a complicated finely tuned and balanced piece of machinery that is a semiautomatic 22 is going to be as robust as THIS?



This thread isn't about wich 22 will last awhile if cared for. This thread is about which 22 can you beat a rabid groundhog to death with and expect it to still work afterwards.




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I got a model 60 when I was about 12-13. My "allowance" was a Remington bucket of bullets, once a week, with good behavior. Sometimes 2 a week if I was really good. I shot every one of them. I can tell you it took several YEARS before the first problem to develop. It would bend shells into the number 7. Being a farm kid I tried to weld up the shell lifter instead of buying new. After a few times apart and back together, a new lifter and spring was ordered. I still have the gun, and it runs fine. I'm 36. Btw, for those that don't remember, the bucket of bullets was 425 truncated cone lead solids. 425x52=22,100

Hey, R.W. ! I bet myCZ452 would still work just fine after beating a rabid ground hog to death. I'll take it up the mountain some time and see if I can sneek up on a rock chuck and try it. I can't guarantee it'll be a rabid one, but if I get the chance I'll let you know.

When I think rimfire reliability, I think ignition reliability first, and that means a good striker fired bolt action.
IME when it comes to rimfires, hammer fired guns are less reliable in the ignition department, especially in very cold weather.

And I don't think a break action gun is going to make a better club than a bolt action.

The bolt gun's one piece stock that attaches at multiple points is more rugged than that an auto or break action's two piece stocks. Plus the action is essentially one piece, no hinge, no barrel screws to holding it to an aluminum receiver.

All steel sights and steel trigger guard are a must on our theoretical club/gun as well as a scope mounting option.

I'm going with my CZ 452 Scout and a box of Velocitors here. All steel, compact, dual extractors, good open sights, same quality and accuracy as the full size CZ's, takes 5 or 10 round mags or the single shot adapter. The price was nice too.

As several posts above have noted, using your logic, a break action single shot is more reliable.

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I think I already addressed bread down rifles. No there isn't a bolt but there is a hinge where the rifle breaks down and I've seen quite a few rifles of that design that wouldn't work because the hinge was worn out. There's a lot of weight on that hinge compared to anything in a bolt gun and they do get worn out. I grew up at a time when almost everyone used a bread down shotgun and break down rifles were also common. I've been around a lot of them. It says a lot that those old bolt action, single shot rifles are still around working fine and all those old break down rifles are long gone.

Like I said, it can't be argued or at least it can't be argued successfully. By far the most durable and reliable design is a single shot, bolt action. BTW if a bolt got bent I'd just bend it back with a hammer. Try that on a pump gun or a break down rifle or anything else.

They might try to teach kids that you can always argue a point but that doesn't help kids learn the facts very well. It's a mental exercise for people in the Philosopher's Union. Most of them work at universities. Cogito Ergo Sum and all that. Hog wash. Give me good old fashioned hillbilly style horse sense any day.

I'll tell you what. You see how many ads on auction sites where someone is selling a break down rifle from the 1950's (and I know they made them in those days - I was there) and I'll see how many single shot, bolt action rifles I can find on the same sites. That should prove something. That's how us hillbilly's think.

I found 2 on Gunbroker.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=323209385
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=323068784

I'm telling you that I see rifles like these all the time from Winchester and Savage / Stevens and other companies. But I haven't seen a break action .22 for decades even though I saw quite a few of them as a kid. I think that makes it pretty clear cut. Now we can split hairs about whether something "can be" argued or we can talk about the obvious facts here and they are obvious. Surely you remember the Handi Rifle's etc.. They were fairly popular back in my youth in .22 form. I haven't seen one of those for sale in the used rack of a LGS or on an auction site in a very, very long time. And I'm here to tell you that those rifles got loose big time the more you used them because the weight of the barrel dropped when you hit the release and it would eventually create play in the break down action. You can call that reliable all you want but I know better.

BTW I have a Marlin 60 with about 175,000 rounds through it and it still works perfect.

PO2Hammer said:

When I think rimfire reliability, I think ignition reliability first, and that means a good striker fired bolt action, like my CZ Scout.
IME when it comes to rimfires, hammer fired guns are less reliable in the ignition department.
And I don't think a break action gun is going to make a better club than a bolt action.

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Are you suggesting that a gun with a hammer spring layout designed for large shotgun primers and centerfire rifles is inadequate for 22lr?

About those old single shot bolt actions. 99% of them use a cheap piece of spring steel as an extractor, of wich I've broken and replaced more than my share of.

You guys cite not seeing many break action 22's. Just how many 22 rifles were made that were built on a 12 gauge shotgun frame as is the case with the h&r sportster and the Russian gun pictured? Strangely enough if you look for used single shot break action shotguns you have no problem finding piles and piles of still functional guns from the century before last yet your contention is that these guns wear out in weeks as a 22?

I ain't buying it

Wearing out a hardened hinge pin as large in diameter as the barrel of a 22? Really? You might have seen a broken plastic guide on the rear of the forend but even without one the guns will still lockup and shoot just fine. the one on the bakial above is a lump of steel

You keep coming to that 60 I'll tell you what let me drop it on a rock from a height of four feet where ever I want to and you do the same with my Bakail then lets see who is still shooting afterwards. Hows that for ruggedness. Heck mine has a chrome lined bore for crying out loud.



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Are you suggesting that a gun with a hammer spring layout designed for large shotgun primers and centerfire rifles is inadequate for 22lr?

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No, I'm not. Just a general observation about guns I've shot. I think your Bakail is a very good survival type gun. Most of my complaints have been with hammer fired autos. I'm just a huge fan of the Scout.

CZ
I have a Brno #1 that was made in the 1940's, it's a strong accurate rifle. It's a great field gun and just plain fun to shoot. The Brno's are a little hard to find now, but the CZ's are not.

The CZ 452 model is essentially the same rifle. And the different models within the 452 designation means you can tailor the rifle to your needs.

Like this long barrel CZ452 Ultra Lux.

Now that would be a nice quiet .22.

PO2Hammer said:

Now that would be a nice quiet .22.

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I had one and while quiet they're not as quiet as you'd expect.




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complains about

Hillbilly Horse Sense? Does the thought ever cross your mind that some rifles were produced in larger quantities than others? Ever think people sell what they don't want anymore? Do you think mindset has changed over the years about preferred action? Automatic transmissions were introduced for convenience, not for increased longevity. Lots of possibilities as to why a certain action would be more readily available on Gunbroker. Look up 10/22s. If you find 200 listings, will that mean it's the most reliable .22 rifle in history?

Look I'm not going to argue about it. I have my opinion. You're welcome to yours. I've seen lots of worn out break down rifles. I've seen very few worn out, single shot rimfire rifles. That's all there is to it really. I used the example of finding lots more bolt actions because believe it or not (and I don't care if you do) there was a lot of break down rifles and shotguns from the time period I mentioned. And a lot of them are worn out. And the reason they were worn out is because the pins the barrel pivoted on were rounded out in the their holes because they were asked to do a big job and they didn't stand up to it. When those barrels dropped down they reamed out the holes those pins were in a little more every time.

I responded to a particular post from someone who said a break down rifle should be stronger using my logic. Well it isn't true. They aren't. I've seen a lot of evidence. I'm sorry I won't cave in and change my mind for you. Wait a minute. No I'm not. Have a nice day.

Hands down, Ruger 77/22

It is the toughest rimfire rifle out there as far as I know.

I used to have Guns and Ammo's complete Rimfire guide. In it, there was an article about the 77/22. It was such a strong build that Ruger built the 77/44 and eventually the 77/357 off of the same design.

I could be wrong, but I think that this is probably the best offering in the build strength, durability, and reliability department.

I've seen lots of worn out break down rifles.

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That's amazing. I've been buying and selling guns, as well as perusing every gun shop I can find for 25yrs. I shoot 20-30,000rds a year in rimfire alone and I have seen very few worn out rifles. Much less rimfires. Even less break open single shots.

I've seen quite a few loose double shotguns but they were 100yrs old or more and made of soft steels.

Fishman777 said:

It is the toughest rimfire rifle out there as far as I know.

I used to have Guns and Ammo's complete Rimfire guide. In it, there was an article about the 77/22. It was such a strong build that Ruger built the 77/44 and eventually the 77/357 off of the same design.

I could be wrong, but I think that this is probably the best offering in the build strength, durability, and reliability department.

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Using YOUR anology, then the 40X Remington is a MUCH better action than the 77/22... It's been used for all the magnums even .458's!!

The 700 action is one of the strongest actions ever designed.

SO, the Remington 40X is the tougest 22 ever built...

DM