130 plus killed in four bombings in Madrid

Guys, quit it. The deaths of 192 people is not cause for a pissing contest.

Can we outline it like this:

ETA did it:
- A statement so as not to be forgotten
- Arguably the same type of explosives as before
- Been shut down hard in the past and risen up again
- Pretty much have tried things like it
- Framed Al Quaeda for it? Not too hard to steal a car and leave an Arabic tape in it. Why they would do this is anyone's guess.
- Al Quaeda seem to be more into symbolism (Embassies, WTC etc)
- As far as we know not a suicide attack

ETA didn't do it:
- Not their style so far
- Spain cooperated heavily with the US/UK over Iraq
- Suicide attacks are only a hallmark of AQ of late
- Some group affiliated as claimed it
- Madrid is arguably the easiest of three capitals (the others being Washington DC and London)
- ETA have denied it

That's pretty much all we know.

I certainly didn't start this pissing match by accusing someone else of believing that a known terrorist organization is a joke. That would be one of your own to have done that.

And I'll point out once again that that this was apparently not a suicide attack means absolutely NOTHING. Suicide attacks are not the only kind of attack carried out by Islamic fanatics. The first World Trade Center bombing, anyone?

I think we need to send some 'coincidental" missiles up their collective hindquarters and some "ironic" SecOp teams into their caves and hovels wherever they may be

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Good thinking! Of course, we don't know where "their collective hindquarters" may be, nor are there any "caves and hovels" we aren't already trying to insert our "SecOp teams." Maybe we should identify the country that's harboring them, whoever they are, and invade and install a puppet regime that won't be safe outside of a US-guarded compound. Oops, we tried that already. Well, we could invade some other country just because we don't like the leader, that would surely send a clear message to anyone planning any kind of terrorist attack.

And as far as who did it, I don't think anyone will know the answer for a while. But I don't see how anyone can be arguing one way or the other based on what a group did or didn't do in the past. Maybe ETA has been paying at least as much attention as some of the "experts" here. They may have learned a thing or 2 from all of the publicity around Al Qaeda's MO.

I do take your point over suicide attacks Mike, and I did point it out.

When we hear more concrete news we should post it on this thread.

'That would be one of your own that did that'. No-one needs that Mike, nor do they need the constant accusations that are made around here of all Euro's being pathetic wienies who deserve no respect.

I do note that were it not for me, Khornet, 7.62, a few others and Mike and Ag and their fight this thread would be about 20 posts or so. I bet if this had happened in the States this thread would be 1,000's of posts by now. That doesn't make me a happy person. Tomorrow I am going to try and see if there is a Spanish consulate in the nearest city to me and leave some form of condolence, these people deserve at least that.

Malone got it right. We don't know where their hindquarters are.

Howsomeever, ALL terror organizations have state sponsorship in some form or fashion. Terror will cease when states cease sponsoring terror organizations. That is why it is so important to ensure a high cost of participation to states that do sponsor terror. Higher the price of participation, less inclination to participate.

Terrorists, terror organization and terror sponsors are like criminals. They are all fantastically qualified economists.

I bet if this had happened in the States this thread would be 1,000's of posts by now. That doesn't make me a happy person.

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Less than 200 foreigners killed by an attack loses its shock value once you've already had 3,000 of your own people killed in one shot.

The attacks were front-page coverage in the papers here and top story in broadcast and internet news over here, by the way.

Maybe we should identify the country that's harboring them, whoever they are, and invade

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I agree in spirit, but that is not a strategy the present administration favors. We have known for years that Saudi Arabia is funding Al Qaeda. Not only has the GWB contingent NOT invaded or used any military or diplomatic persuasion against the Saudis, they have been complicit in the cover up of it as when the intel report specifying the Saudi's involvement was censored. Bush only holds countries accountable for doing bad things if they are countries he doesn't like or countries who don't have something he needs (like a large supply of oil).

What seems highly likely from the events is that Al Qaeda has aligned with the local terrorist group in Spain to pursue the common objectives. This is to be expected becuse it is exactly what they have done in Iraq as well. AQ wants to make good on it's threat to punish the countries who backed the US invasion (and they named Spain specifically) and the local thugs there just want to terrorize the government until they grant them an autonomous state. Politics make strange bedfellows.

"I bet if this had happened in the States this thread would be 1,000's of posts by now."

I doubt it.

I don't think the threads in the aftermath of 9-11 on TFL added up to 1,000 posts.

And I think at the time, TFL and THR had roughly the same number of members, about 9,500.

I take the comment back then. I'm just annoyed, excuse me if you will.