Crime Stats: UK versus USA

Status
Not open for further replies.

abajaj11

Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
189
Piers Morgan keep throwing out the "gun murders" number as being higher in the USA than the UK. This is true.
However, apparently Morgan only cares if people are killed by guns...he has no problem with more "benign killings" such as with clubs, or beating the victim to death, or hammers, or throwing the victim off a building.

Here are some facts re: crime statistics in the USA versus UK and some other countries, that may come handy the next time we meet our favourite low-information guy or gal.

Consider this link:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...73/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html

Below is an excerpt from the article above:
" A breakdown of the statistics, which were compiled into league tables by the Conservatives, revealed that violent crime in the UK had increased from 652,974 offences in 1998 to more than 1.15 million crimes in 2007.

It means there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the UK, making it the most violent place in Europe.

Austria is second, with a rate of 1,677 per 100,000 people, followed by Sweden, Belgium, Finland and Holland.

By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per 100,000 population.

France recorded 324,765 violent crimes in 2007 – a 67 per cent increase in the past decade – at a rate of 504 per 100,000 population.

"

Another useful link is here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ry-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

The table in the article, shown here (http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/07/02/article-1196941-05900DF7000005DC-677_468x636.jpg) indicates the US has lower violent crime rates than all the countries in the table.

In terms of HOMICIDES per capita, there are many factors that affect the rate. These factors include the percentage of youth in the population, the overall cultural heterogeneity (diversity) of the population, what is defined as a homicide, how accurate the government numbers are, etc. This is why, for example, Japan, with an ageing population and very homogeneous culture has very low homicide rates. Switzerland, with an older population and homogeneous culture also has a very low murder rate.
Japan has draconian gun laws, Switzerland has a heavily armed civilian populace with a select fire rifle in many households.

For example check out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

By my estimate, USA murder rate is about 4.5 per 100,000 and UK is about 2. If we cater for all other factors that may influence the murder rate and take them out of the estimation, we end up with very similar homicide rates in the USA and other developed countries. The USA has a very diverse culture and population, which is relatively youthful.

It is true, that GUN murders are more in the USA, but that is only because guns are available. If guns were removed from the USA, the overall murder rate would not go down...rather it would go up...though the GUN MURDER rate would go down.

I don't think the victims care HOW they were killed.
Though some folks may say they'd rather be shot to death than beaten to death.
Bottom line:
UK is 5 times more violent than USA (where violent means crimes like rapes and beatings that can put you in hospital and change your life).
Gun murder rate in USA is much higher than UK.
Murder rate in USA is about the same as UK, once other factors have been accounted for.

Hope this helps.
:)
 
Last edited:
I don't know for sure but some folks think the U.K. may be suppressing the numbers of reported firearm killings. I know it's kinda conspiracy theory-ish. I work with a Mexican born man who is now a legal U.S. citizen. He tells me how strict the Mexican gun laws are and also says how Ole Mexico is one of the most dangerous places in the world. "The police are corrupt and only the bad guys have guns". I'm sure lots of crimes in Mexico go unreported due to payoffs and the police just not doing their job.
 
....

does not take into account, that violent crimes without resulting death
will incorporate many shootings as well in the US.


It´s about society. And both the UK and the US have
an underclass-poor problem that is selfmade and contrasts
starkly with the elite.



Switzerland is extremely rich and has a lot of guns ( the ammo for the amry rifles is not stored at home anymore, due to too many killing sprees).

A poor african or south american country with the same amount of guns
will and does have an extremely high murder rate.




i would not use any of this for an argument pro RKBA.
would look simplified bordering on the silly. IMHO.
 
Having lived in the UK all my life except the last three years, I can easily believe it.
I feel a lot safer living in NY than I did in Birmingham, UK.
 
There's a problem with comparing "violent crime" rates between countries that have different criteria for what a violent crime may be. In the UK a argument with pushing and shoving is a violent crime. Here, it would be a disturbing the peace misdemeanor if it was even changed.

The narrower definition of murder is a better category of violent crime to compare rates between groups. Unfortunately the murder rate in the US is higher than the UK and most of Europe. Murder rates can be influenced by many economic, social and homogeneity factors, but the rate at which people kill each other is at least narrow enough to have meaning.

If we look at the rates for Europe provided by the UK Home Office (http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/public...e-research/hosb0212/hosb0212-tabs?view=Binary) in their table 1a we see that the UK (England & Wales) is in the middle of the rankings for Europe with 13.5 homicides per million population. That's compared with countries with more liberal firearms laws in Europe with lower rates. Since we can see that the conservative restrictions on firearms in the UK doesn't produce anywhere close to the lowest rate for violent deaths the assertion that the UK system of restrictions is absurd when they're tied with France and far worse than Sweden, Spain and other countries that permit ownership of firearms to a greater extent.

BTW, if we adjust our rates to match the basis (per million population) used in the UK Home Office report our murder rate is still sadly higher and our homicide rate would be higher still than that of any European country.
 

Attachments

  • UKEU Homicide Rates.pdf
    10 KB · Views: 9
Last edited:
In the US, the antis include suicides in the category of gun deaths. hso is right, it is all in how you do the numbers.
 
Last edited:
Gun ownership is not the only variable.

Consider Brazil, Mexico, and South Africa. Very strict gun laws, and high rates of violent crime. But then, Japanese people commit very few crimes here.

And about the only thing that Stratford-on-Avon has in common with Chicago is that a river runs through it.
 
HSO, one thing that I heard is that while murder rates are higher in the US, it's because we have more highly-concentrated population centers than the UK. These are where the majority of the murders occur. Look at what we say about ourselves - the high crime areas are Chicago, Detroit, NYC, Washington DC...not places like rural Alabama.
 
This topic reminds me of something I read today, an article by Dr. Thomas Sowell. In case you don't know who he is, he's an economist. Here's something he mentioned:

When it was legal to buy a shotgun in London in the middle of the 20th century, there were very few armed robberies there. But, after British gun control zealots managed over the years to disarm virtually the entire law-abiding population, armed robberies became literally a hundred times more common. And murder rates rose.

If you're interested in reading the full article, here's the link:

"Do Gun Control Laws Control Guns?" by Thomas Sowell
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top