If the Germans have no problem with ARs then why do our Antis

hso · Jan 27, 2013

http://www.oberlandarms.com/produkt...23Rem+Selbstladebuechsen+Rifles.html#produkte

The OA-15 M5 is the slightly longer version of the M4. It comes with collapsible stock (6-position M4), midlength-handguards and A2-grip. Like with every OA-15 rifle we use a button-rifled, stress relieved Lothar Walther stainless steel heavy match barrel, 0.750 diam. The barrel is already black Teflon coated. 14/1-thread and flashhider, the big OA-charging Handle and the 45°-Selector are included as well as the detachable A3 carrying handle. Because we use midlength handguards (exclusively with this model) the rifle looks like a M4, even though the barrel is 57mm/2¼ “ longer. You can also order the M5 with the ARS already installed.

A friend of mine, and a fellow THR member, has been working in Germany for the past several years. We were having our nearly weekly Sunday morning chat and we were talking about the Sig 716. I asked if he could purchase it there in Germany and he said he didn't know, but he knew he could buy the equivalent and pointed me to the Oberland website.

We can see the Germans have no problem with modern sporting rifles or their magazines. We can see the Germans have a lower violent crime and murder rate than in the U.K. (which is touted by Antis as the "gold standard" for firearms laws).

Every time we see someone tell us that we have a violent crime problem because of these firearms and magazines we now have an example from Germany to point out that you can walk up to the gun counter and purchase in a country with a lower murder rate than the U.K. so the guns/mags can't be a problem w.r.t. violent crime rates.

JohnsXDM · Jan 27, 2013

You did notice it only comes with a 10 round magizine

TheGloriousTachikoma · Jan 27, 2013

But on their site they say they sell their 30-round pmag-copies to German and EU citizens

MilitisDeii · Jan 27, 2013

To buy any kind of firearm in Germany you have to be the member
of a shooting club for 1 year and pass a test or get your hunting license (which is rather complicated and expensive). But once you have accomplished that you can buy almost anything you like, as long as it's not full auto. This includes AR 15 style rifles. In fact there are some German AR manufacturers like Schwaben Arms or Schmeisser.

There is no limit on how many rounds a magazine can hold. Magazines are not considered gun parts and can be freely purchased without any license or proof of age.

-v- · Jan 27, 2013

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but in Germany you can own it, but you can't keep it at home and you must leave it locked up at the gun club.

hso · Jan 27, 2013

My friend has a small gun safe in his little apartment that holds his rifles.

Ryanxia · Jan 28, 2013

That's great. I didn't think Germans were allowed to own firearms (something about being part of the terms after WWII) but either those restrictions were lifted or I was mistaken.

Either way glad they have something anyways.

MilitisDeii · Jan 28, 2013

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but in Germany you can own it, but you can't keep it at home and you must leave it locked up at the gun club.

Some Politicians proposed a law which would force shooters to leave their guns at the shooting club. Fortunately this legislation never passed.

You have to keep them in a certified gun safe but they can be at your home.

denster · Jan 29, 2013

The reason for the focus on AR's and high cap magazines at the moment is because they were used in Aurora CO, Newtown CN and Upstate NY and the antis can gin up some public sentiment against them and maybe get something banned. It doesn't have to mnake any rational sense. Remembere their agenda is to dssasemble the second ammendment piecemiel.

hso · Jan 29, 2013

We're not trying to reach the Antis, we're reaching out to the people they're lying to.

If we can debunk and defuse their lies we can return close to the status quo and kill this current push.

This struggle is one we'll fight for years. Each round has to be fought individually. Each round has to be won individually.

Sam Cade · Jan 29, 2013

hso said:
Every time we see someone tell us that we have a violent crime problem because of these firearms and magazines we now have an example from Germany to point out that you can walk up to the gun counter and purchase in a country with a lower murder rate than the U.K. so the guns/mags can't be a problem w.r.t. violent crime rates.

No.

A firearms ownership license (Waffenbesitzkarte) must be obtained before a weapon can be purchased. Owners of multiple firearms need separate ownership licenses for every single firearm they own. It entitles owners to purchase firearms and handle them on their own property and any private property with property owner consent. On public premises, a licensed firearm must be transported unloaded and in a stable, fully enclosing, locked container. A weapons ownership license does not entitle the owner to shoot the weapon or carry it on public premises without the prescribed container. Owners must obtain mandatory insurance and a means to securely store the weapon on their premises (a weapons locker). Blanket ownership licenses are issued to arms dealers, firearms experts and – with limitations – to collectors. Today, there are ca. four million legal private gun owners.[11]

A number of criteria must be met before a firearms ownership license is issued:

age of majority (18 years) (§ 4 WaffG)
trustworthiness (§ 5 WaffG)
personal adequacy (§ 6 WaffG)
expert knowledge (§ 7 WaffG) and
necessity (§ 8 WaffG)

Necessity is automatically assumed present for licensed hunters and owners of a carry permit (Waffenschein). Competition shooters can demonstrate necessity by being an active member of a Schützenverein (marksmen club) for over a year. A competition shooter can lose necessity – and be required to give up owned firearms – by abandoning the shooting sport. Self-defense is not a recognized ground for necessity, outside the narrow requirements of a carry permit.

and

Firearms ownership licenses come in three color-coded varieties: Green licenses enable the holder to acquire and own all non-assault weapons. Every acquisition requires prior approval and per-firearm necessity. License holders are normally limited to two short firearms and three semi-automatic rifles. Yellow licenses enable the holder to acquire and own single-shot and repeater long firearms and single-shot short ones, without having to obtain prior approval or demonstrate individual necessity. Acquisition is limited to two firearms per half-year. Red licenses are available to collectors and experts. They allow unlimited acquisition of firearms, for collectors they are usually constrained to a specific collectible "theme".

If the Germans have no problem with ARs then why do our Antis

hso

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JohnsXDM

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TheGloriousTachikoma

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MilitisDeii

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-v-

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hso

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Ryanxia

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MilitisDeii

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denster

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hso

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Sam Cade

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