It's started in NY - Refusing to Register Guns

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Nothing would secure leftist votes better than a series of raids on homes, seizing 'illegal assault weapons' from 'dangerous criminals'...
 
Beatledog7 said:
Imagine a holiday weekend when the state police are out in force to give speeding tickets, since that's what they do on holiday weekends. Imagine that a huge Internet-driven wave of drivers deciding to all hit the freeway and drive 80mph for a designated five minutes on a Saturday afternoon. Now imagine the state police falling all over themselves trying to ticket everyone. I have a lot of respect for LEOs generally, but this would simply be outside their capacity.
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From experience- because they do this every few weekends right out front of my house on the busy state route- what they would do is each officer would pull over one or more of the drivers as they felt comfortable.

Out here they have 5-6 cars waiting on the shoulder, a plane in the air (who is also usually running stopwatches on the traffic a mile back from the speed trap, and radioing in which cars in which lanes to check speed with the laser) and one or two motorcycle cops who have laser guns standing on the shoulder. In Ohio the officer needs to make an eduma-cated idea that a car is speeding in order to be able to check speed with the laser- you can't just sit there and flash every car as it goes by...well, in theory anyway.

The motorcycle cop checks speeds with the laser gun, then walks out into traffic and physically points to the car he wants to pull over and gestures for them to do so. When they do, one of the units in a car rolls up to write the citation. If they fail to stop, one of the cars chases them, backed up by the air unit.

If all the units are writing cites, they make the speeders pull over and wait their turn. Some days there are quite a line of people waiting for their chance to pay the state a speed fee.

If no officers are available, they ignore the speeders until one of the officers has a chance to deal with them again. Usually some of the ticketing cars have gotten too far away, and they have to pull a U-turn across the median and backtrack to where the action is.

Assembly line shakedowns.
 
You can refuse to register, fine, but that gun can never be seen in public again.
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Exactly how many times have you been at the range and somebody walked up and asked to see your gun's registration? For that matter, how many times have you been carrying a gun and had someone come up and ask to see your permit?
 
Apple a Day said:
Exactly how many times have you been at the range and somebody walked up and asked to see your gun's registration? For that matter, how many times have you been carrying a gun and had someone come up and ask to see your permit?
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Not apples to apples... Ask it this way... "How many times have you been at ther range with a Full Auto (Or other NFA device) and been asked to show your paperwork?

Big difference. until right now in NY there was no registry and there were no banned (Just restricted) devices. In NY though today, I could see club/range owners asking the question to cover their own butts. New work down there in New York.
 
4v50 Gary said:
Where laws are immoral, civil disobedience is a moral duty.
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Henry David Thoreau.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison.… where the State places those who are not with her, but against her,– the only house in a slave State in which a free man can abide with honor.… Cast your whole vote, not a strip of paper merely, but your whole influence. A minority is powerless while it conforms to the majority; it is not even a minority then; but it is irresistible when it clogs by its whole weight. If the alternative is to keep all just men in prison, or give up war and slavery, the State will not hesitate which to choose. If a thousand men were not to pay their tax bills this year, that would not be a violent and bloody measure, as it would be to pay them, and enable the State to commit violence and shed innocent blood. This is, in fact, the definition of a peaceable revolution, if any such is possible.
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So if they claim 40% of gun sales are done without a background check, and those sales do not currently require any form of documentation to change hands, how do you suppose they're going to find 150ish million firearms. They can't take you down for something that was legal at the time you did it. "Sorry officer I sold my firearms when I saw this legislation coming.". No sorry I didn't keep a paper trail because law didn't require it at the time of sale. Do you have a warrant to enter my home? No? Guess you'd better be on your way then.". The logisitcs for trying to find firearms that way are impossible. They've passed laws they can't enforce.
 
There's really only one logical "line-in-the-sand" moment, and contrary to popular opinion and oft-repeated slogans, it isn't "when they come for your guns" because that's never going to happen.
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Okay, I'll bite, JohnSka what is the logical "line-in-the-sand" moment? I'm being dense today.

When you fill out a Form 4473 it is kept forever by the FFL untill he goes out of business.
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Not correct. They are required to keep it for 20 years, but can destroy it then. If they go out of business, yes, they must turn the records over to the ATF.
 
Not apples to apples... Ask it this way... "How many times have you been at ther range with a Full Auto (Or other NFA device) and been asked to show your paperwork?

Big difference.
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Apples to orchards... the number of full auto guns is a drop in the bucket compared to the ocean of semi-auto guns.
 
Apple a Day said:
Apples to orchards... the number of full auto guns is a drop in the bucket compared to the ocean of semi-auto guns.
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Right, but my point is the same. No one would ask this today because there is no registration except for NFA regulated items.

But, were on the same side. I have a rising tode of my own.

Have a good one.
 
bds said:
I could just picture waves of gun owners filing police reports ...

"Officer, after our range trip we stopped to have lunch/dinner and I must have forgotten to lock the car/truck door. When we came out, all the guns were gone!" ;):D

If/when the Feds try to confiscate, they will simply show the police reports for stolen guns ... what will Cuomo/Obama do then?
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Hopefully you said that in jest. It could lead to charges for filing a false report. In some jurisdictions the penalty is equivalent to the penalty of the reported crime.
 
guntech59 said:
So, we should just roll over and comply with illegal laws? I think not.

Most of us "will not comply" folks are capable of reading and comprehending the new law and have made a conscious decision not to obey.
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But perhaps not capable of reasoning out that making statements on the Internet have no expectation of privacy? And if the gov't is competent enough to hunt you down for owning the gun, they'd be competent enough to read your post and figure out who you are?

If you're going to break a law, whether or not that law is actually constitutional, you might wanna thing twice about announcing your intention to do so on the Internet where anybody can read it.
 
Ridiculous.

They're not coming for your guns.

At least not in the way people like to think they will.

It's already happened elsewhere, we don't have to guess how it will happen here.

All they have to do is make them illegal and wait. Over time, they'll chip away at the folks who don't turn them in or register their guns. A little at a time, one here, one there, so there's no obvious point at which those who are non-compliant feel like their collective backs are up against the wall and might be spurred to organized resistance.

Someone turns in an enemy, a wife spills the beans during a divorce, someone's kid says the wrong thing at school or at the doctor's office or to a buddy. Somewhere there's a paper trail that turns up a gun that should have been surrendered. Someone has a house fire and the authorities find illegal guns in the ashes. Someone gets careless and gets caught at the range with something he shouldn't own.

They have all the time in the world. Why bother risking lives and resistance by doing a door-to-door? Waiting works just as well if you're not impatient.

They will eventually get them all and with very minor effort.

In the meantime, those non-compliant folks who wouldn't give them up won't be able to rationalize any advantage in keeping their guns. What's the point of having a gun you can't use in self-defense or to hunt, or even to shoot? The only option would be to hide it away and never use it again on penalty of getting caught committing a felony. For all their non-compliance gained them, they might as well have turned them in before the grace period expired and taken the pittance offered.

There's really only one logical "line-in-the-sand" moment, and contrary to popular opinion and oft-repeated slogans, it isn't "when they come for your guns" because that's never going to happen.
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Spot on. This is exactly correct. They'll whittle away at the illegal firearms, there will be no "show of force", because they know exactly what the response will be.
 
Barry the Bear said:
Civil war 2 sure is happening pretty quickly
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there will be no war

90% will comply
9% will passivly not comply and hide / burry them (essentialy a misson kill)
1% will loudly make noise and be scooped up at which point 90% of the 9% will comply


BUT if the Do Not Comply really takes hold ... THAT will make for interesting times
 
A few hundred thousand New York gun owners marching with their AR's on Albany would end this in a day. Each one drops a bullet on the governers lawn. There's a "political statement".

Let them try to stop it...

Our ancestors had the sand. Why dont we?
 
When yoy buy a gun from an ffl the info on rhe 4473 gets transferred to the ffls bound book with the serial number and description of the gun. So yes it may not be overt registration but atf can examine or copy bound books and when an ffl goes under the bound book gets sent to atf.
Any gun bought at an ffl is registered and traceable.
 
So a self-professed "Gun Wielding Maniac" wants to drop bullets on the governors lawn? Helpful, very helpful. Constructive too. We're a a lock to win hands down now that we've got this idea on the table...from "Gun Wielding Maniac"! I can see the panic buying and the ammo hoarding dying down already.
 
Let's be honest...right now you just about cannot buy a gun at retail in NYS. Retailers are sold out. Does Cuomo really think that people are buying up everything that goes "bang," and the things it takes to make them go "bang," just to turn them all in?

Fifty-two of the 58 NYS county sheriffs have voiced formal opposition to the law...they probably will not enforce it.

Finally, let's suppose the police decide to make a "contact" with every person they think may have a banned gun. This is just to drive out to your house, knock on your door, and give you a friendly reminder that you have until February 15th, 2014 to register your guns. Let's break that cost down:

Man-hours to compile a contact list.
Assume 5 minutes per contact. Driving time and gas money for two officers to contact maybe 10 households per hour.

It would work out to $300 per contact. I got this figure from a retired police officer. Let's assume 300,000 people own affected guns. That's 90 MILLION dollars.

There isn't that much money in this state to waste on that. And there will be even less without people buying guns, hunting licences, etc. Remington, Kimber, CZ/Dan Wesson, and Henry all have intentions of leaving NYS.

This gun control law is an economic non-starter. It will just go away in a year or two when they realize it will bankrupt the state.
 
evan price said:
Just remember the Waco incident started out because they were suspected of having illegal weapons and were serving a search warrant.

Coming soon to a New York channel near you- Live at Five, the New York State Police burns down another house!
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This is my greatest fear. So if I register a half dozen or so "assault weapons", how exactly do you think LE will act if they need to contact me for any legitimate reason? When SWAT teams are doing 3am no-knock entries to collect people under warrant for non-violent offenses, what treatment will my family get? Should my children have to cower in their home with the corpse of their mother with half of her head missing as Vicki Weaver's children did?

There will be fire and blood as a result of these laws, but it will be the innocents suffering the most. A registration and a bad word regarding your character will set the stage for the next Ruby Ridge, Waco or MOVE scenario, right here close to home for all of us in NY.
 
Gun registration is not a big deal! It worked out just fine for all those nice Jewish people in the 1940s. Oh wait...

Well... At least afterwards they were given a place to live in peace where nobody will bother them again.

What? You don't say....

[sarcasm off]
 
So a self-professed "Gun Wielding Maniac" wants to drop bullets on the governors lawn? Helpful, very helpful. Constructive too. We're a a lock to win hands down now that we've got this idea on the table...from "Gun Wielding Maniac"! I can see the panic buying and the ammo hoarding dying down already.
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Yeah. Why not? It clearly demonstrates:
A) Solidarity
B) Non-violent civil disobediance
C) Guts

It beats the pants off of "hiding in the closet" until you get old and die or your estranged Ex-Wife turns you into the Po-Po. There are 80 million + gun owners in this country. That's one POWERFUL minority, if only we'd feel our roots. Too many pussy-whipped people though are scared to do what our ancestors once did, in the civil rights movement, and before that, the revolution. They risked arrest...and a hell of a lot worse.

As far as my name goes, I'm about the safest, sanest guy you'll ever meet.
 
Mr Rogers said:
New York is a good test bed for OBAMA. Think they will go door to door and pick em up? They know who has them legaly.
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Well, isn't that what they did in Australia? There were a lot of people killed during that time. Otherwise law-abiding citizens immediately deemed criminals and treated as such.


Dfsixstring
SR9c
LCP
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