Bandit at Sam's Club

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saving your boy's mother is protecting him,

he would have been fine for a few minutes in the car seat, so i think your thinking was spot on.

i think your real dilemma would have been had you heard something odd from inside or your wife would have been longer in coming out.
 
YOu did the right thing staying with your child. Going inside would have put BOTH his parents at risk.
nunomybizness, but I gotta ask... Sam's club for a soda? No c-store around?
 
Lots of good opinions here. I'm still not comfortable with how I handled it and primarily my initial reluctance to identify him as a potential threat. I knew it was odd and that he could potentially cause harm to someone, but I found myself searching for explanations trying to justify the situation. I fear that in an actual confrontation I would hesitate to use deadly force.
 
As a retired LEO, you did rght to stay with your child in the car....God forbid a shootout occured around you car with you gone and your child inside and not noticed.
#2 call the wife on the cell and tell her to tell a employee and then get her butt out of there safely.
#3 If you had had your handgun ,You are not a LEO and not having training you would have been a liability to yourself and everyone else there. Do you want your child growing up without a dad?

My KUDOs to you for being observant and willing to make a call.....

BTW ...Off duty LEO officers are trained to observe( they are the eyes of the responding officers) and call things like that in and not get involved unless things go wrong .
 
9mm - I guess I just put my wife's welfare over my own. IMHO, the likelihood that something terrible like you explained would happen to my child appears to be much lower than the likelihood of my wife being in harms way. Just because I'm sitting in the car with my son, doesn't mean that someone can't still run into us. I could be hit by a car? I guess I should simply never leave my vehicle under any circumstances. I appreciate your perspective and am still contemplating the best course of action.
 
You do have to concede that in a freak type accident your presence will decrease the likelihood of harm befalling your child.

The child is the only one incapable of helping them selves in this situation. They must be cared for.
 
Be sure to report back if you hear what actually happened at the Sam's Club that night.

Not that it should matter to you, but I think you did right at well. Too many unknown unknowns, as 9mm laid out.
 
JPG19 said:
I fear that in an actual confrontation I would hesitate to use deadly force.
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Why do you think this?

You weren't actually IN a situation that called for deadly force. Heightened awareness, yes, but you were only at the "OO" part of the loop. (Observe, Orient).

Your OODA loop caused you to decide and act to call the authorities. Then return to "OO" part.

Nothing wrong with that. You did everything right, so second guessing what MIGHT have happened will do you no good. A meteor might fall on your house. You might get struck by lightning at the shooting range. A car might drive through your house. A piece of frozen pee might fall off a leaky airliner and crush your skull.

You don't stay up all night worrying about all those things, do you?

No. You don't.

So keep a regular range schedule to keep your skills up.

Stay observant when you're out.

The rest will happen naturally, if it ever has to happen. Trust yourself.
 
coolluke - yes I absolutely concede that my presence could potentially and probably greatly reduce the amount of harm inflicted upon him.

Trent - Thanks for the words of encouragement, I certainly hope you're right.
 
The OODA loop problem is that there is seldom just one loop that covers the situation. The cycle keeps on repeating as long as anything is happening. Calling the police was the ACT at the end of the first loop, but then there had to be a decision in what to do next - follow wife into store or stay in car with child? And then, keep on staying in car, or go into store when wife still hasn't come out?

It does gnaw on a person... and the impetus to DO SOMETHING is awfully hard to resist sometimes.

It might be difficult to realize in the middle of an urge to DO SOMETHING that securing a child in the car, continuing to observe the situation, watching and waiting for a spouse, continuing to report developments to the dispatcher etc are all ACTIONS - and responsible, constructive actions as well, IMHO.

We tend to judge situations based on outcome. I can't see how this specific situation could have worked out any better, save for a few butterflies perhaps. It offers a good opportunity to learn and explore, in the event another such situation presents itself. "What if" is a valuable analytical tool to help prepare for critical situations, and involving a spouse in the learning process can help as well...
 
JPG19 said:
Something interesting happened this morning, let me lay it out for you; I pulled up to the front of a local Sam's Club while my wife ran inside to grab a coke before work. While waiting, a young male and female walked inside, with the male wearing a hat pulled down very low over his eyes, dressed in all black, and he had a bandana covering his entire face, save his eyes. I immediately called the police, but was soon confronted with a dilemma...to enter or not. I did have my concealed weapon on me (ALWAYS do). Normally, I would say no. But, my wife was inside and my 2 y.o. son was in the backseat. I knew she should be out fairly quickly since she was only getting a coke, and considering the size of the club, she could easily have gone unnoticed had this man turned violent. I considered locking my son in the car and going in to make sure my was not harmed or in any danger but have always felt that carrying a weapon doesn't give you the right or ability to become a vigilante officer. I have no military or LEO experience and my wife was unarmed. Ultimately she exited pretty soon after this couple entered and we drove off, still speaking with the police dispatcher. I'm curious to see how you guys would have reacted, and what you would have done had my wife been getting many items and expected to be inside for quite some time. I do not know what happened, aside from the building being checked out by police. Also, given that the female was not disguised gave me some level of comfort for obvious reasons. Thanks.
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I'd have called the cops and watched him carefully.

If it robbed and ran, I'd follow while giving the cops a running commentary of his actions.

I would ONLY think of intervening if he started shooting. For you see, I will not start the ball rolling unless it really needs rolling, especially with my family near by.

I've lived a long enough time to see how many times things don't go as planned and thus locking paws is my very last resort.

Deaf
 
RedBowTies88 said:
I would of went in, A 2 year old would be perfectly fine fastened in the backseat of a car in 50* weather for some time. It would only take a second to go and ascertain the situation.
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It is not ok to leave a 2 yr old alone in a locked car. What if you went in to get your wife and both ended up shot and dead or incapacitated? What's going to happen to that child? What happens if someone sees the child, breaks a window and takes him/her? In that situation the best thing to do is call your wife on the cell phone and alert her of the potential danger. At that point, your job is to alert the police of a suspicious person and protect your child.
 
The guy was driving a motorcycle.

I am 100 percent certain that the guy was driving a motorcycle. The 50 degree weather is much colder on a bike. I am dressed just like this guy was when I ride my Harley granted I always take off the bandanna before I walk into a store.
 
Leaving the child would have been very wrong. The child needs an caring adult present and strapped in a car seat is no good. The child is also less able to deal with the temperature variations. Also, you would have committed child endangerment.

I have military experience in hostile environments. I do not see a good outcome if I were to charge into the store. I would not do it alone. Additionally, I would not go commando as a civilian, especially when it is so easy to make police think I am the threat I and maybe some others called on.

My goal is to secure a good defensive position, get my family members to me, if possible, observe and report.

As a soldier, I went to the fight; as a civilian, the fight will have to come to me.
 
when you toss the bike into the mix it changes the whole perspective of the situation. Lots of riders wearing bandannas (the skull with lower jaw kind)

but it's still is good to be cognizant!
 
Once I walked into a gas station in full leathers and my helmet, with a 1911 on my belt. I did get a few lookers, but it went without incident.:eek::eek::eek:
 
steveracer said:
I would have followed him in BEFORE I called the cops. Might be a guy trying to avoid the wind. If he does something fishy, then respond with your phone. Otherwise, leave the poor bugger alone.
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And then something goes horribly wrong and a two year old child is left alone in the vehicle with the possiblity of both parents dead or injured inside the store.

Nothing wrong with letting the police do the investigation, that's what they get paid for. I don't care that people call the police about the presence of my gun....it's the officer's reaction that matters.
 
JPG19 (and others that agreed about kid in the car):

I get that in a tense situation a lot of half formed thoughts and possibilities are zooming through your head. I get, also, that you relayed that when posting your thread. I do not understand standing by the statement, or the statements from others, about leaving your child in a locked seat, in a locked car, while you went in to the building.

You ASSUME that kid would be fine just like you ASSUME the guy would be trouble. Neither may be true, or both, or one but not the other, that is the problem. Assumptions are evil things and ought to be avoided.

That being said, I am for you calling the police and staying with the kid. Next time call / txt wife with a duress code so that she knows to STOP what she is doing, with awareness, and exit ASAP. This should be a fantastic learning experience for the both of you. She can decide NOT to carry a gun all the wants, but once she understands that Prince Charming and the White Horse are staying with the child she will think about it differently and agree with you, hopefully.
 
as a young man, soon to be married with plans to have kids, and shopping at sams often. I find this thread to be very interesting.

As of this moment, I have a gut feeling that I would go to the aid of my wife.
I feel i would not be able to raise my children having to explain to them, when i had time to act, to save mommy, i didnt.
 
tacxted said:
as a young man, soon to be married with plans to have kids,...

I feel i would not be able to raise my children having to explain to them, when i had time to act, to save mommy, i didnt.
Click to expand...

Just two points to consider:
1. Your life changes when you have children...you'll have to trust me on this
2. Do you really think it would be easier to explain to your wife, how you abandoned your children to the whims of fate when you had another choice?
 
+10 This coming from a wise married man!
But, Honey, I saw this scary man and I thought... THAT YOU WOULD LEAVE OUR 2 YEAR OLD IN THE CAR!!!
 
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