People know Ronald Reagon supported/helped the AWB?

What's your point other than trying to smear RR?

Reagan was anti gun, pro choice, and raised the debt percentage wise more than any president in history including the current one. He also had millions of liberals vote for him in the election. So we have to ask ourselves, was he really a conservative? i say he was a RHINO republican in name only.
I must say he was a great man though and i liked many many of his principals. noone is perfect.

His point, which seems obvious to me, is that demonizing people for a different view on gun control is not justified. If people who believe in gun control are by default liberty hating, evil, vile, scum then "St. Reagan" would be such as well. The fact is that the people who support further gun control simply believe it will make us safer. That's it. No take over the world, enslave the US conspiracy.

Reply deleted, not P.C. to discuss "liberal vs Conservative" politics here on THR.

Only thing I can say, is if you own guns and voted for Obama, then perhaps you should have understood the man you just voted for in the last election a bit better. It is no surprise to many of us that he waited until his second term to tackle "gun control." We knew and understood that was going to be part of his second term. No surprise at all. If you voted for him, then my friend, you own his gun control proposals and will have to suck it up and live with them like the rest of us who did not vote for him. Perhaps that is something to consider before the next election. Sorry, but the big tent theory isn't anything I want a part of.

Alaska444 said:

Reply deleted, not P.C. to discuss "liberal vs Conservative" politics here on THR.

Only thing I can say, is if you own guns and voted for Obama, then perhaps you should have understood the man you just voted for in the last election a bit better. It is no surprise to many of us that he waited until his second term to tackle "gun control." We knew and understood that was going to be part of his second term. No surprise at all. If you voted for him, then my friend, you own his gun control proposals and will have to suck it up and live with them like the rest of us who did not vote for him. Perhaps that is something to consider before the next election. Sorry, but the big tent theory isn't anything I want a part of.

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This.

Constrictor said:

Reagan was anti gun, pro choice, and raised the debt percentage wise more than any president in history including the current one. He also had millions of liberals vote for him in the election. So we have to ask ourselves, was he really a conservative? i say he was a RHINO republican in name only.
I must say he was a great man though and i liked many many of his principals. noone is perfect.

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Not here to jam on RR, but many issues with him that I disagree. In any case, the libs and the conservatives are totally different demographic and philosophical groups than in Reagan's years.

In fact, the differences between the right and the left in those days was dramatically small compared to the polarized views of today. Comparing Obama to Reagan is foolishness, it is NOT the same nation at all any longer.

In addition, Obama's deficit is projected to be at 22 trillion total by the time he leaves office. That would likely be 12 trillion Obama, 10 trillion every president before him. Please spare me that Obama is not a deficit spending president.

wild cat mccane said:

haha if fact smears RR...? How is that a smear? it is fact.

No. I am saying look at this pages stickies. Look at the average conversation in HR and other shooting enthusiast website. "help me win this fight with an anti" comes up weekly. It is no wonder it is a constant fight.

I am saying our group could be more inclusive to the idea of small regulation while increasing support.

This zero sum game is a looser when you look at the polls. 9 in 10 favor a mag ban AND background checks. It surely moves the group further into the fringe when the NRA and shooters scream about this is the end of the world.

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I would rather go down fighting for what is right than to join what is wrong and give consent to that. Sorry, but go read history a bit and come back and then we might have a real conversation about these issues we face today.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Fraser_Tytler

We are on a path to a complete death spiral as a nation. Sorry, but in my opinion, the current "popular" desire to deplete the treasury is the natural progression of ALL democracies throughout history. It will be our death cry in the end. Once again, look up the history of democracies and dispute those facts if you wish, but my friend, you are right, you can't dispute history.

9 in 10 favor a mag ban AND background checks.

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What poll is that from? Universal background checks have wide support in about that area, but a mag capacity limit is only marginally less contentious than an AWB, with only few percentage points more in favor vs. against.

There are some instances where absolutism has its place and compromise does not. Human rights is one of those places. And look at the trend of public opinion on gun issues over time. It appears our absolutism is working pretty well.

Hmmmm.....after the assassination attempt, if he wanted to he could have lowered the hammer......he was one of the best we ever had...IMO.

Liberals aren't used to thinking for themselves. They let their positions be dictated by others. They then make the mistake of thinking that the other side has the same weakness.

I've had the same conversation with some. They point out that Reagan supported the first assault weapons ban and when I tell them that it doesn't matter what Reagan supported, I don't support it, their best response is "But, but . . . REAGAN!?!?!".

This zero sum game is a looser when you look at the polls. 9 in 10 favor a mag ban AND background checks. It surely moves the group further into the fringe when the NRA and shooters scream about this is the end of the world.

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care to source that 9 in 10? Ive seen it thrown around for the last couple weeks. Ive spent several hours searching for a source. From what I found, thats just a media lie to make people think thats what eveyone else thinks, so they either give up or support. Even if there was a poll, it was terribly skewed. 44% of american households own a gun, and you know how many people wont admit to owning one for fear of being put on a list. always remember, polls show that up to 92% of statistics are made up on the spot. The 9 in 10 is one of them.

mgmorden said:

Liberals aren't used to thinking for themselves. They let their positions be dictated by others. They then make the mistake of thinking that the other side has the same weakness.

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It's a good thing the same thing could never be said of Conservatives and some on THR. How many times does the same uniformed and untrue distortion or "factoid" get thrown around among Conservatives and ProRKBA folks Regardless of how often its disproved?

If you think having an elephant for a mascot makes one immune from group think and false information about gun rights or most other things you're not reading history either.

I'm still scratching my head over that one by Reagan. I don't know what he was thinking.

gossamer said:

It's a good thing the same thing could never be said of Conservatives and some on THR. How many times does the same uniformed and untrue distortion or "factoid" get thrown around among Conservatives and ProRKBA folks Regardless of how often its disproved?

If you think having an elephant for a mascot makes one immune from group think and false information about gun rights or most other things you're not reading history either.

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Looks like we are on a countdown to close this thread. Let me respond while I can to my own post.

Conservatives understand the nature of the danger of fiscal impropriety leading to the bankruptcy of our nation. We also understand the historical context of fiscal insolvency leading to the loss of freedom ending in dictatorship.

In such, that is one of the biggest reasons why conservatives TODAY say no "compromise" and no big tent theory of politics. History tells us we are dangerously close to a complete dictatorship. The sign, raiding the treasury in a way we have never done before to the tune of 42 cents of each dollar we spend is borrowed money. Couple this with the political and economic situation throughout the world and the gun issue now suddenly is not only a right to carry issue, but much more my friend.

Hopefully I get this in before they close this thread.

Take care.

One side proposes a bad idea and the other side opposes it. Brilliant.

What we need are better ideas.

How can I put him on ignore?

Alaska444 said:

Looks like we are on a countdown to close this thread. Let me respond while I can to my own post.

Conservatives understand the nature of the danger of fiscal impropriety leading to the bankruptcy of our nation. We also understand the historical context of fiscal insolvency leading to the loss of freedom ending in dictatorship.

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First, very recent history proves that SOME Conservatives understand this. As do SOME Liberals. Likewise, some from both parties do not.

But beyond that, it's intellectually dishonest to say that Conservatives are now or ever were immune to faulty group think on issues of gun rights, fiscal sanity, and other rights granted under the Bill of Rights.

Sure one can claim it. And they can deny the facts of history all day long too.

I don't know what he was thinking.

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Maybe not thinking. More like drinking...

Look, here's the two main points:

1) As we've illustrated in many threads, including this one running currently (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=701449) there is no "compromise" with the anti-gun side. All there is is begging the bully to only steal half of your lunch money instead of all of it. That doesn't work. All you can do is fight back with every fiber of your being until the bully is afraid to bother you again.

2) Reagan was a politician. I think we all know he had a long and spotted history in the game. He wasn't god. He wasn't Thomas Jefferson. He was just a deeply flawed person who was the right combination of things to be propelled into office at one time. If he was alive and in office today and he voted for 'compromise,' or an AWB, or a mag ban, or a requirement that we all name our rifles "Sally" ... or whatever other vile nonsense, I'd work my hardest to vote him out of office the next day.

WWR.R.D? Who the heck CARES?

(Sorry Robert! Posted right over you!)