Shotguns

There is no doubt that the strategy is incremental in vision and execution, and that the early goal is to seperate the 'sporting' side of our community from the 'self-defense' side of the community. Using a O/U to show political support for guns is a time-honored tradition for those who would seek to incrementally de-fang the RKBA.

Go figure... It's always the last form of firearm left by them in past confiscations around the globe.

Divide and conquor.

Are the gun grabbers aware of lets say my Saiga 12? It is a pretty formable weapon, All tricked out with drum mag, 00 buck,etc.etc. I hope they don't get any ideas. Is it on the banned list?....Frank

Yeah, the list that I saw from Feinstein's proposed AWB had the Saiga 12 on it....

All IZHMASH Saiga 12 types, including the following: IZHMASH Saiga 12, IZHMASH Saiga 12S, IZHMASH Saiga 12S EXP-01, IZHMASH Saiga 12K, IZHMASH Saiga 12K-030, IZHMASH Saiga 12K-040 Taktika; Streetsweeper; Striker 12.

http://www.politisite.com/2013/01/24/assault-weapons-ban-see-the-list-of-feinsteins-158-banned-weapons-awb2013/#.URQYhR01m8A

As said - it is an attempt to split off a hypothetical sports/hunter culture from the SD/RKBA folks. They are betting on there being little overlap such they can add the first group to the total gun banners and thus pass gun control laws. Of course, after time, the shotties would go. Or they would be mandated to be kept at the gun club for skeet killing.

There are two gun cultures - the classic sports/hunting crowd and the SD crowd. You can belong to both. The latter is the growth area recently.

I was amused that there were no EBRs in Dicks the other day but you could buy an evil black 'hi-cap' 12 gauge for $199 on sale.

BUT - interesting - there's little 00 or buckshot to be had around town.

There was an old I Love Lucy - were Lucy and Desi are buying a country house and they end up in the wrong one. A guy in his PJs holds them at gun point with a clearly sporting shotgun. So Joe is correct - you only need a shotgun and have some 'splaing to do'. Haha.

It would seem most shotties are a higher fruit. I see the plan to keep shaving away gun rights not so much to keep getting rid of the ones most dangerous to them, but more to chip away interest. Get rid of AR's, and alot of people who shoot them leave the shooting sports. Then handguns, and alot of people who own one for defense are no longer gun owners. The less gun owners, the easier to say "you dont need for..." to things like hunting and things that alot of antis still support. After all you only need a bow to hunt.

If it's incremental, then why are many shotguns still legal in the UK?

Incremental is one way of looking at it... it's no different than eating an elephant -one bite at a time....

Yes there are shotguns in the UK (owned mostly by landowners, the upper classes...) but each and every one of them is very carefully regulated and your local constable (warrant card in hand) is required to inspect them periodically, verify that they're being kept securely.... and you'll really like the last bit....

Each year your local constable has to sign off on your weapons card and without it you lose your right to have a gun, period. This was the last word I had on the topic and it might be out of date. I'd love to hear what's current from firearms owners in the UK. My last marriage was in London and my wife still has quite a bit of family there so I've paid attention to this sort of stuff since 1980....

It's alway been a "rich mans sport" trap and skeet. Even though blue collar guys do a lot more than rich folks do.
One of my employees used to shoot at a Country Club in Conn. A client had invited him, and "because he could actually shoot, they gave him a membership for free.
But he said that these guys would pull up in their Silver Cloud Rolls, and the driver would get the guns out and bring them to the wealthy shooter, he told me they all had fifty to a hundred thousand dollar guns. He could out shoot most of them, only after a few months of shooting trap and skeet, "he was a good shot". Almost as good as me,lol. But I believe that is "off limits" because of the elitest crowd who endorse it.
I remember he bought the best he could afford at the time, an over under Kreigorf, "spelling may be wrong", but it had 2 or 3 barrells and several chokes. "this guy was the cheapest guy I ever met", but he sprung for that gun, and a Gold cup. The kind of guy who comes to your summer house for 5 years every weekend, and never bought a 6 pack.
But the boss is supposed to pay right.

Yes there are shotguns in the UK (owned mostly by landowners, the upper classes...) but each and every one of them is very carefully regulated

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That's what puzzles me. It's commonly claimed that anti-gun people will eventually ban all guns, but there is a certain class of guns that are legal, albeit highly controlled.

Is it possible for there to be further restrictions, or outright banning of shotguns in the UK?

Yes there are shotguns in the UK (owned mostly by landowners, the upper classes...) but each and every one of them is very carefully regulated

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Where did this come from? Shotguns are owned by folks from ALL walks of life in the UK. Are there some regs to abide by? yes, there is.....but to insinuate that only the rich have them is completely false

monotonous_iterancy said:

If it's incremental, then why are many shotguns still legal in the UK?

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Among the last things left... today!

The reason they don't fear shotguns (as much) is because of the reduced effective range for most loads. Yes, I know slugs are good to 100+ yards (see previous qualifier of "most" loads). Shotguns are also limited in number of rounds (except Saigas with drums) and rate of fire. So long as they get to keep their full and semi auto high cap rifles they can reach out and touch YOU from a safe distance. Like the saying goes: peace through superior firepower.

Sort of reminds me of Martin Niemollers statement when he was a pastor in Nazi Germany:

"First they came for the Communists and I didn't speak out because I was not a Communist..."

The Nazis came for the socialists, the trade unionists, the Jews, and the Catholics until:

"Then they came for me and there was no left to speak for me."

Substitute ownership of semi-automatic rifles and pistols, high capacity magazines, and ammunition for those groups of people and you have the method by which others would divide and polarize gunowners until there is nothing left of these things that you can legally own.

And then they will come for the shotguns.

Matthew Temkin said:

Has anyone noticed the trend for the Obama administration to speak kindly of shotguns?
From Biden stating that a shotgun is the ultimate weapon to survive a riot, to Obama suddenly coming out of the closet as a skeet shooter, I see a trend:
Demonize semi automatic rifles and pistols, demonize high capacity magazines while pretending to support the "rights" of hunters and sportsmen.
I assume their goal is to ban nothing but shotguns--at first--and then, one day, pointing out that one pull of trigger from a 12 gauge loaded with #4 Buck will unleash 27 rounds of devastating firepower.
Which is why it is time to draw a line in the stand and not give up any type of legal firearm--or let some gun owners be demonized--in the name of appeasement.

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The frog in the water method. It increases one degree at a time until the frog is dead before he realizes he is being boiled.

monotonous_iterancy said:

That's what puzzles me. It's commonly claimed that anti-gun people will eventually ban all guns, but there is a certain class of guns that are legal, albeit highly controlled.

Is it possible for there to be further restrictions, or outright banning of shotguns in the UK?

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Ya. As soon as somebody goes on a rampage with one.

Incremental is one way of looking at it... it's no different than eating an elephant -one bite at a time....

Yes there are shotguns in the UK (owned mostly by landowners, the upper classes...) but each and every one of them is very carefully regulated and your local constable (warrant card in hand) is required to inspect them periodically, verify that they're being kept securely.... and you'll really like the last bit....

Each year your local constable has to sign off on your weapons card and without it you lose your right to have a gun, period. This was the last word I had on the topic and it might be out of date. I'd love to hear what's current from firearms owners in the UK. My last marriage was in London and my wife still has quite a bit of family there so I've paid attention to this sort of stuff since 1980....

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Sorry mate but that is mostly nonsense. I know many many shotgun shooters, dont think many of them are landed gentry, just regular blokes like me. We have a shotgun certificate that is renewed every 5 years, and each time with a visit from the firearms officer, last time I renewed mine he didnt look at any of my guns. Every shotgun I own has it's serial number on my licence, and if I sell one, or buy another, I have to inform the police in writing so that my licence is updated. But that's all.

I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's not like you say either

When you couple this with the bomb and doomsday shelters being built by the federal government and others near Washington you have to ask...WHY? all the preparation?

What do they know and are not telling us?

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The Mayan Apocalypse is actually set for July 31st, 2013.