How the LAPD Lost my Trust

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Dean Weingarten

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I am a certified firearms instructor who has taught CCW classes in Arizona since the beginning of the CCW program there in 1994. As we are on the border with California, I watch the developments there with some interest. Unfortunately, nearly everything that I have read and heard about the LAPD and guns has lead me to distrust them.

I had numerous students who had dealings with the LAPD. I started hearing stories about how guns were seized, even if there were no crime involved. If an officer came across a gun, it was seized, and it would not be returned until the LAPD received a court order demanding that it be returned. As hiring a lawyer to obtain a court order could easily cost thousands of dollars, very few people even tried, as the cost was far more than the firearms were worth. This is legalized theft.

The practice has finally been challenged in court, and the Ninth Circuit has ruled that the under the fourth amendment, LAPD cannot simply steal firearms that are lawfully owned. The government is appealing the decision in Messerschmidt v. Millender.

I have also heard of California police who stop someone that has a firearm in their vehicle, who may have violated one of the many arcane firearms laws of the State. If the officer is being charitable, he may allow the individual to simply give the gun to him, rather than face felony charges.

The crowning moment came for me when I was describing the practice to a class of students, and one of them said "My brother is an LAPD police officer, and he has an amazing collection of firearms. Citizens just gave them to him to dispose of."

This is the stuff of third world dictatorships.

The other practice that made me distrust the LAPD has been their scofflaw attitude toward court orders to administer the California CCW program as the law requires. They have failed to do this for 17 years, even though ordered to do so by the court. The Court order was originally obtained by a legal action won by the Second Amendment Foundation. In the intervening years two more amended judgements of declaratory relief were signed. A current appeal to enforce the court order is in the works from the National Rifle Association and the California Rifle and Pistol Association.

When the LAPD engages in systematic legalized theft, and refuses to follow court orders to uphold the law, when they routinely fail to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, even though they have taken an oath to do so, they have lost my trust.

Dean Weingarten

Link to NRA update: Messerschmidt v. Millender

Link to NRA update, CCW process enforcement appeal

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/02/how-lapd-lost-my-trust.html
 
The police follow the examples for theft that have proven successful for that (and many other) state's "public servants."

Mike
 
How about when they attempt to murder two Hispanic women who are not a 270 lb bald 33 Y/O black male??

Then 25 minutes later shoot up another truck?

Violating peoples Constitutional Right to LIVE is sure a good reason to not trust them!

They can't even correctly a truck before they shoot it up.
 
This stuff can be said of a lot of agencies; not just the LAPD. It is a symptom of a municipalities' or State's political culture.
 
When I worked security for a Casino, I worked with an ex-Sacremento P.D Officer, who told me that any knife that anyone could open one handed was a switchblade and that he used to ''confiscate'' them routinely. I told him I could open my Buck knife one handed, and he answered that he would have confiscated it. I'm generally pretty pro-law enforcement, but that just left me with my mind blown.
 
My brother retired with 25 years in blue, The last seven of It as Chief. He has a house full of nice firearms. It's amazing how many people want to dispose of there firearms. He actually told me that same thing when I ask him about a nice rifle he had.
 
The crowning moment came for me when I was describing the practice to a class of students, and one of them said "My brother is an LAPD police officer, and he has an amazing collection of firearms. Citizens just gave them to him to dispose of."
Click to expand...
My brother retired with 25 years in blue, The last seven of It as Chief. He has a house full of nice firearms. It's amazing how many people want to dispose of there firearms. He actually told me that same thing when I ask him about a nice rifle he had.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't it be a shame if citizens also gave these fine upstanding officers some ammo to dispose of . . . ammo which included at least one handloaded round which had a case full of Bullseye?
 
Every citizen a suspect.
Total rudidity and brash arrogance. Surly, with an authoritative disdain. Too bad the good ones get lumped in with the bad; Just hope you don't have contact while transporting your legally (for the moment) owned firearms.
 
Power begets more power. I’ve seen it happen to many people with whom I was once friends. When police believe that they are above the law or are granted impunity for gross negligence, bad things will happen. I believe the draconian guns laws in CA may have helped to feed their sense of supremacy.

I do not wish to paint all police agencies with a broad brush. However, I feel safer having my own arms to protect myself rather than depending on a 911 call.
 
when my twins graduate from basic training in San diego CA. I plain driveing out there for there graduation. thanks for scareing me :cuss: I guess I bring a throw-away , and leave the Smith's at home :cuss:
I drive long haul truck, my boss asked me if I wanted a load going out there , I said NO THANKS ! there trucking laws are as bad as there gun laws .so I'm takeing the wifes car :)
 
steveo452 said:
My brother retired with 25 years in blue, The last seven of It as Chief. He has a house full of nice firearms. It's amazing how many people want to dispose of there firearms. He actually told me that same thing when I ask him about a nice rifle he had.
Click to expand...
I'm guessing he always got to keep his black-and-white at home?
 
Had stolen Smith model 60 recovered by Atlanta P.D. They informed me of recovery, tried two years to get back with no luck. A few years later was contacted as owner of record when it was used in a crime. I faxed investigators original stolen forms and recovery notices. They seemed to not want to talk to me after that. I again tried to get it returned with no luck. Once the cops get your gun, better to write it off.
 
As a person who spent most of my life (50+ years) living under LAPD jurisdiction, I find your statement "Lost my trust" to be a complement compared to my experiences with LAPD. I have personally had them steel from me (Two S&W J fames) while investigating a burglary at my house, create false traffic citations, lie in court, impound my sons car and receive cash from the tow truck driver (And never report the impound or issue a citation) and commit a murder right in front of my house.

As for their not issuing CCW permits in the last 17 years, that has been the standing policy of LAPD and LA Sheriffs since at least the early 1960's that I'm aware of. Unless, of course, you are a politician, celebrity, or millionaire.

For your information, if your not already aware, LAPD has (or had) a formal written policy to never return a firearm to the rightful owner without a successful law suit by that owner. It is their policy directive 14 or 44 or ?

Their attitude and arrogance is appropriately displayed on the license plate frames for their personal vehicles: "KMA ###" (kiss my ass).

End of rant by an escapee to Arizona
 
Trust needs to be earned before it can be lost.

As a general rule, I don't have a lot of trust for big city PD's. Prove to me that my tax dollars are going to good use first.

This is a reason I live in the sticks. County cops and/ or State Police respond... Usually after the fact.
 
I was once friends with a pasco county sheriff (haven't talked to him in over 10 years tho) here In Florida. I had seen him on several occasions watch his own girlfriend do cocaine and smoke marijuana. he also used to attend parties where under age drinking was rampant. he used to brag about how he could could the speed limit while driving when he was off duty and if he got pulled over they would just let him go since he was a fellow officer.

He was cool if you knew him personally, but if you didn't and he met you on The job you might be In for a full on Roid rage.

As I've gotten older the whole experience with him has left me with a moderate level of distrust toward law enforcement.
 
and one of them said "My brother is an LAPD police officer, and he has an amazing collection of firearms. Citizens just gave them to him to dispose of."
Click to expand...

My problem with that statement is how many times has that 'gave me' happened in the face of supposed felonies or other scare tactics?
 
As a Police Officer and a combat veteran I can tell you from first hand experience that the type of behavior you're describing can be attributed to three things, the first being the way Police Officers are trained, the second being popular culture and the third being the quality of those being recruited.

Almost every major department that I am aware of uses Marine Corps boot camp or Army basic training as its model. The degree to which training is militarized varies from agency to agency but that flavor, so to speak, is always there. Police Officers aren't being trained to keep the peace - they're being trained to be "warriors", "Soldiers of the law" etc. Recruits are taught from day one that Police Officers are engaged in a so-called war on crime, that anyone who isn't a Police Officer isn't to be trusted, that Police Officers are universally hated, that anyone who has the opportunity to kill a Police Officer will do so and, most importantly, that Police Officers are superior to those they serve. When I went through my academy I was shocked and dismayed to see the extent to which the training was meant to replicate Paris Island. If you train a Police Officer to be a Soldier or Marine you can't be surprised when he treats his post like it was occupied territory. While in the academy we never once read the U.S. Constitution or the State Constitution. It's hard to support and defend something when you don't even know what it is or what it says. Of course we spent plenty of time reading the law in reference to what weapons you can arrest people for possessing in public. Priorities.

Another issue is the fact that if you turn on a fictional cop show today being a corrupt and brutal Police Officer is glorified. Young people who wanted to be Police Officers used to watch Dragnet or Adam 12 and model themselves after Sgt. Friday or Reed and Malloy, now they aspire to imitate Vic Mackey on the Shield or Sipowicz on NYPD Blue. The message being sent by popular culture is that if you aren't a brutal and/or corrupt Police Officer you aren't trying hard enough. Honest Officers are portrayed as weak or naive while corrupt Officers are portrayed as skilled, effective and irresistible to women. Folks may laugh at what I'm saying but believe me, years of watching this garbage has an effect and it isn't good. I've met Cops who revere Vic Mackey, who want to be Vic Mackey. Why? Because that's what they grew up on.

Finally we're getting an ever increasing number of recruits coming into Policing who've never previously held a full time job and have no family responsibilities. Young men and women with minimal life experience are more susceptible to being brainwashed and dehumanized than those who've been around the block. They just don't have the experience that someone with a stable work history and a family to support has. When you don't have your own power base it's harder to pass judgement on your co-workers and to take a stand for what you know is right. Less mature Police Officers are more easily taught to fear the public and far easier to bully once they leave the academy.

What does this mean for the Second Amendment? Well, it means that the Officer you see on the street is more likely than ever to have been taught to regard you as their inferior by default, to have been taught that civilian ownership of firearms is dangerous and to believe that the Constitution is an antiquated relic (assuming that they've ever read the document at any point in their lives - many have not). If you want the Police in your area to respect your right to keep and bear arms I would suggest you inform yourself as to how your local Police are trained and that you demand that training be changed if it isn't producing the type of Officer you need in your community. Many agencies teach that guns in the possession of non-Police are as dangerous as nuclear waste and require an equally extreme response. Police Officers, both good and bad, are the way they are for a reason. Find out what that reason is and act accordingly.
 
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