Long range hunting: 7mm-08 vs. 30-06?

Hey, it's the Clint Eastwood/Dirty Harry line: "A man's gotta know his limitations." Some folks have no great difficulty in making shots at 400 or more. Others should stay inside of 300 yards. And some folks really oughta stay home.

There ain't no "One size fits all."

Why not take your 7-08 and practice at 400 yards? I would feel better with a gun that I am cofident in it's ballistics. Not all antelopes are killed at 400 yards though. Buy a quality rangefinder and practice so that you know where your bullet will hit at any range. (write your ranges and drops on the stock). BUT, if you want a new gun don't let anyone talk you out of it, I bet everyone on this forum would help you justify it. Just ask us!

OK running the math on a factory 140gr Ballistic Tip (one of the better open country bullets thanks to it's high BC) we do maintain the minimums to 400 yards, not by much but we are there, 2069fps and 1331 ft/lbs you loose your 2000fps minimum at about 430yds depending on exact temp and elevation. With a 100yd zero you have 30.2" of drop at 400yards that is 7.2 MOA adjustment if you have a target scope. Max ideal range with this load is 325 yards beyond which you are loosing considerable expansion.

The Long range shots of course, depend a whole lot on your particular skill level.
Try to find any books by the late,great, Jack O'Conner who has explained the art of game shooting at extended distance in terms that the average guy can understand.
"The Hunting Rifle" is a super start, "The Rifle Book" just as super.
Jack was the Outdoor Life Shooting Editor for a number of years, and wasn't REALLY a fan of "Super Duper, Humpty Dumpty " Magnum calibers.
His indisputable theory was of course "SHOT PLACEMENT" and a real respect for the hunted animal.
Of course, bullet selection means a lot and you have several options these days, especially if you reload.

Using the 150gr BT in the 7mm Rem Mag we see alot more effective range, factory speed is 3100fps at the muzzle giving us a max range of about 625 yards, a maximum ideal range of 500 yards and only 22" of drop at 400 yards. Pretty noticeable difference. Within 325 yards I give the edge to the 7mm-08 but outside that give me the Big 7 any day.

Using the 150gr BT in the 7mm Rem Mag we see alot more effective range, factory speed is 3100fps at the muzzle giving us a max range of about 625 yards, a maximum ideal range of 500 yards and only 22" of drop at 400 yards.

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I have a couple 06's and they are great to about 250 yards but wind drift and bullet drop are terrible past 250. Anything 250 or longer longer and I switch to 7mm rem mag, way better BC.

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Then you are using the wrong 30-06 bullets.

Not to get on another topic, but I load 150's, 165's and 180's in my 30-06. I'm getting 3050 fps from a 22" barrel and could match your 3100 fps if I had a 24" barrel. The slightly better BC of the 7mm bullet does give it an edge, but I'm still good on energy for deer past 600 yards and only have 3" more bullet drop at 400 yards.

I'll give a slight edge to the 7 mag, but either round is better than I'm capable of shooting.

Actually shooting 150 in both is working at a handicap. The 30-06 shooting 180's and the 7 mag shooting 160's is a better choice because of much better BC's in both bullet weights. Bullet drop at long range is only 2-3" more, but the energy numbers look much better for both.

With the heavier bullets both are legitimate elk guns to 500 yards. Farther than I will take a shot.

O6 would do the job. As would the 270. To many cal`s to settle on only one.

06 said:

Howdy Micheal, am a great fan of '06s but your rifle will do well. Most rifles out perform our abilities as shooters. If you decide to go to an '06 then start using 180-200 gn boolits. They will do better for you than lighter ones. Play with your powder loads to find that "sweet spot". Faster is not always more accurate.

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My thoughts exactly, could not have said it better................

If I were to be shooting at big game regularly beyond 400y I would be going to something with enough powder capacity to get those bullets out at a healthy MV.

Retained speed and energy via a high BC is one thing, and entirely necessary to ensure quick kills. But if the bullet starts out at mediocre speeds such as the 7-08 and 308 do in the first place, I would be pumping up to a more powerful round.

400 plus regular shots? I would be thinking 7mm Rem Mag or similar. If I was shooting it enough to be comfy with the rifle, I would probably think the 300 WM class of cartridges.

No, I know we are not hunting elephants, and I am not a he-man; there is not a single magnum in my safe. That is because most days 300y pulls me up and the 308/30-06 class cartridges have all the oomph I need for that. My 270 Win allows me to stretch out a little to around 400 yards with 150g bullets with a BC of over 0.5, but only on a good day with very little wind and when I have been practicing a lot.

To the OP, I implore you to keep your shots to ranges at which you have practiced to the point of consistent proficiency. If that's 500y then all well and good, but at those ranges I would be using a heavier hitter than a 7-08 and probably more than a 30-06.

I've killed a few whitetails with long shots I set up intentionally and I would strongly recommend either the 7mm 08 or the .280 remington (also called 7mm Express) if you're into the 7mm bullet. If you're open to suggestions, though, the 6.5- 08 will do anything you ever wanted out to about a thousand yards.
I have a 7mm Express and i don't feel my friend's 7mm Magnum has anything on me: a couple hundred feet per second doesn't matter in the woods IMHO

Coyote315, that's quite a big call mate. The 6.5-08 will do all he wants out to 1000 yards?

The guy is talking about shooting game. Are you for real? Who shoots game at 1000y? One hunter in probably two thousand, that's who. Maybe you might just be setting this bloke up to fail...

I totally agree with your statement that 200fps means stuff-all in the woods. But at 600y it becomes more of a factor because that 308-class bullet is running out of juice to deliver the goods on game. Unless you are dropping that pill into his brain.

Anyway, as you put it, I am open to suggestions. Maybe you can put some data or other info up to convince me that a 6.5-08 (are you talking 260 Rem?) can deliver those goodies at 1000y?

My post might sound inflammatory. It is not deliberately. But unless you are an expert shooter (and lets face it who is?) you are giving the OP unrealistic expectations, in my view.

The .30-06 will carry a little more energy at 500 yards than the 7mm-08, but with the right loads both have similar drop and are still sufficient for deer/antelope sized game at that range. IMO, the most important consideration for a 500 yard hunting rifle is the shooter. You need to be able to determine range, project trajectory and dope the wind to consistently hit at that range.

On the other hand, should I just proceed forward with the 7mm-08?

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I vote for: proceed forward with the 7mm-08

Spend the money you've got on a range finder. Then go practice for the ranges you're thinking you might need and find out what you're capable of. ...And it's probably going to be really windy.

I would just practice with the 7mm-08, unless you just want a 30-06. The 7mm-08 is plenty and antelope are easy to hunt. Just remember practice, practice, practice.

Fella's;

Oh, good grief! Followed by; Bah and Humbug!

The 7mm/08 will do just fine, practice with it.

You do not need heavy bullets to make the ought-6 effective beyond 400 yards.

Antelope are plentiful in Wyoming, lived there for decades & got mine damn near every year. Then I moved to Montana, there's a few here too. If you have to shoot more than three hundred yards to getcher goat in Wyoming you aren't hunting correctly.

The longest shot I've taken an antelope with was in Montana. The gun was a Winchester model 70, .30-06. The bullet was 150 grains and it entered the animal about 2 inches from exactly where I wanted it to. I wanted to hit the spine just in front of the shoulder. Instead it went in just under the spine & just in front of the shoulder. That made no difference, he was rolled over D-E-D when I recovered from recoil. There was a good breeze (Rocky Mountain front range winds) coming over my left shoulder when the shot was made. The laser confirmed range was 470 yards. The scope was a 10X max power with normal crosshairs. However, I did know the gun, the load, the game, and the territory.

900F

Kachok said:

Is your Savage one of the 1:11.5" twists? If so it won't stabilize the longer higher BC bullets for the 7mm.

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this^^^

jmr40 said:

For what you're going to hunt the 7-08 will do fine out to 400+ yards.

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and this ^^^

coyote315 said:

If you're open to suggestions, though, the 6.5- 08 will do anything you ever wanted out to about a thousand yards.

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I have to take issue with that. First off you know that a 6.5-08 is a .260 Remington right? Now a 260 is a fine cartridge and it is also my favorite deer rifle but a 1000 yard deer gun it is not. Most people would agree that minimum energy for deer is 1000 ft/lbs and 1500 ft/lbs for elk. Loading the hottest handload with the highest BC bullet and assuming a long barrel to get it up to speed, you still drop below 1000 ft/lbs at 800 yards and 1500 ft/lbs at 500 yards. Most of our hunting bullets like to be moving at least 2000 fps to expand properly and you drop below that at 600 yards. Now I know that there are plenty of deer out there that have been killed with less energy than 1000 ft/lbs, many poachers use 22 mags that don't come close to that much energy at the muzzle. But we are talking about taking an ethical long range shot here not a perfectly placed head shot from a few yards away using a spotlight. At 1000 yards there are way to many variables that can factor in to chance less that optimal energy. At that range an accurate 1 MOA gun will only shoot a 10 inch group and that is assuming the wind doesn't change. You could even shoot thru several different wind currents all moving at different speeds and different directions moving your bullet feet off target. Do not claim that a 260 Remington is a 1000 yard deer rifle. Sure some people can shoot it well at that range, but they are shooting paper, not deer.

Fella's;

What he said.

900F

Let's don't go wandering off into this 1,000-yard stuff, okay? That's a super-specialized, rarely done by anybody, sort of thing.

We're talking basic deer/elk hunting.

If I could ever get it to shoot right the 154gr SST has a .525BC and can be pushed to just over 2800fps with the right load, that would make it remarkably effective for ranged shooting, dare I say it ON PAR with the 140gr SSTs in 260 and 6.5x55 with 14gr more mass and burning no more powder, I would have to be pushing Berger Hunting VLDs to beat that. But that is a handload, last I checked Hornady did not offer the 154gr in a 7mm-08 factory load, they do make a Superformance 140gr at 3000fps but it shoots like crap in my rifle, then again all factory fodder does.

I would use the 7mm-08 for hunting ranges.

I prefer .284 bullets over .308 bullets for long range shooting. If you want to get a new rifle, I don't think you could go wrong with a .280 Remington or even a 7mm Rem Mag (if you like the recoil).

6.5-08?

.260 Remington, methinks.

Why worry about shooting more than 300 yards even at 300 yards if the animal is that far away you should be able to stalk closer than that. Then it doesn't matter which rifle you have. To me hunting isn't how far you shoot an animal it's how being able to hit what I'm shooting at for the one shot kill and for me that means 300 yards or closer preferable closer.

You might say I'm not a marksman if I can't make a clean kill every time from 400 yds. OK I can accept that, however IMO you aren't a hunter if you can't get within 300 yds.