Learned a new lesson about Handguns Tonight!

I am all for the teaching opp, but..I had a similiar experience. A friend of my father's who is in his 60s asked about my carry weapon which is a Glock 23 and I told him about it. He asked if he could hold it and I went through all the 4 standard safety rules. I cleared the gun, showed him how to check the gun, told him it was now his responsiblity to make sure the weapon was safe and handed it to him. He promptly aimed it at me and pulled the trigger! I almost broke his wrist. Sorry, just reflex. Some folks do not take instruction very well. I haven't spoken to him since.

I have a brother in law like that. The only problem is that you can't tell or teach him anything because he was in the Army. He got his ccw and at a restraint one day started flaunting it and stuck it in a kids face as a joke. I wanted to beat him to a pulp. My wife was very proud of me that day. I calmly scolded him.

You're a better man than I. I'd just bopped him on the head, called him a DA and been done with it. I feel your pain though. I had the wife's cousin over and I guess since he knew I was a gun guy he felt the need to OC his S&W. No biggie really but when he decided to unholster a loaded gun to "show it off" without my premission in my house with my young daughter 3 ft away I then had a HUGE problem. I don't see him much these days. I actually have a sign at the front door now stating "All sidearms are to remain holstered at all times"

AA, I hope you didn't read my post as casting stones and I can certainly appreciate the necessary action to regain control of the situation. Guy creed says never embarrass another guy, never admitt to ignorance and always be the coolest cat in the room. It is maturity that separates men from guys and I still feel you have the wherewithal to hand him his man card.

I don't ask that you grovel and beg his forgiveness, merely express the importance of protecting your family- all of your family. That is one of several specific reasons you had for becoming informed and choosing a firearm and unsafe handling, as much as anything, is proven counter productive to that end.

I wish you well with your decision and I understand it will be difficult no matter the path going forward.

When I first heard the term "gun grabber" this is exactly what I envisioned: Some knucklehead friend who would grab at my gun and start playing with it without so much as one safety concern.

In all fairness, though, you probably should have handed him the gun butt first, pointing down, and with the wheel open to display that it was empty. Then you could have admonished him for treating a tool like a toy when he started to spin it.

I will take that comment as a dis

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If you are referring to my comment; I mentioned that I meant no disrespect, but it is your prerogative to take my comment any way you please. Personally, I don't make a habit of harboring personal vendettas against strangers on internet forums and I hope you'll afford the same to the other members of THR. I apologize if anything I said came off as disrespectful.

That said, please understand that those who have criticized you realize as you do that when it comes to firearms there can be no room for mistakes, and when mistakes are made they must be dealt with sternly. As such, those who have criticized you are simply trying to hold you to the same high standard that you are holding your relative to. However, we also realize the need for grace afterwards because we are all fallibly human and make stupid mistakes and decisions. We all react reflexively, we all stick our feet in our mouths, we all misdirect our anger and frustration at those who do not deserve it, and yes, we're all guilty of instinctively making excuses for our mistakes as your relative did. Admitting your mistake as you have honorably done is only the first step. Just as he should humble himself, admit that he screwed up and accept your criticism for his mistake, you also should humble yourself and accept criticism for your own and, instead of taking it personally, use it to make wiser and more informed decisions for yourself in the future as we all should (which I feel is likely the reason you posted this thread to begin with).

"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Opponents must be gently instructed..." 2 Timothy 2:24-25

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This fellow, uninformed and (at this point) seemingly unrepentant, is a part of your family. I don't believe you owe him any sort of apology. But I do think it would be wise for you to consider attempting to educate and inform him in the future instead of alienating him for this one act of stupidity. Who knows? Someday he may use what you teach him to save the life of your wife's sister. If after some basic instruction and cautious prodding he chooses to be unrepentant and obstinate then by all means kick the dust from your feet and move on.

I, too, hope I did not come across the wrong way, Airbrush Artist.

One of the things I really like about this site is that, while there are some pretty blunt members here, most of them are pretty sincere about their well meaning...and a large number of members likewise demonstrate their ability to swallow their pride in the face of facts, experience, and sound advice. This is because "The High Road" is an important philosophy on this site.

I haven't been here long myself, but this is an important quality to me. I wouldn't waste my valuable time on a site which only offered me endless sniping and bickering.

You've never come across as anything but an intelligent, responsible person in the postings I've seen you post. That's important to me...and it makes me not only want to treat you with respect, but to give you what I feel is honest and sound advice/opinions as a result. I don't go for the low-brow approach, at any rate.

What you do with your Brother-in-Law in the future is, indeed, up to you based on your first-hand knowledge and experience with him. I won't second guess you on that. But I will continue to offer up my own views and opinions based on the information you post because you obviously think it's important enough to post them in the first place.

I would expect no less from you in return, should our roles be reversed.

Fishslayer, I have to second your opinion on the slamming the cylinder closed, like "everyone on TV does." I had a brand new Ruger Security Six I showed to a guy I worked with, first thing he did was flip the cylinder closed on it, thats when I immediately took it from him. "Whats the matter with you, ain't that gun strong enough to handle that?" I didn't bother to answer him, my looks were enough, as he got up and left 5 minutes later. Mentally deficient folks shouldn't even have the chance to handle a firearm, stupid on my part, I figured at his age he'd know better, my fault !

so I went to the lock up in the bedroom brought it backed Unloaded it and cleared it twice,then Handed it to Him upon which He stuck his Finger in the trigger guard and Spun it like a Hula Hoop

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Okay, clarify something for me...
You brought the gun back with you and cleared it twice right in front of him, with him watching you, and then immediately handed it to him, yes?

If this is true then I don't see what the big deal is.

While I don't think it's a smart thing to do, him twirling the empty gun is not going to harm anyone and it's not going to harm the weapon either.

I don't see what the big deal is.

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Would you be willing to advise which of the 4 rules for gun safety can be ignored? :banghead:

Umm...twirling it absolutely could harm the weapon. As I said earlier, unsafe guhandling was only a tiny part of this event. Ignorance of safe gun handling is excusable, and if Airbrush had acted like he did if his BIL had simply swept someone with the muzzle, I would say he was rude and over the top. What his BIL did was showing no respect for thhe property of another.

Would you do donuts in a borrowed car without permision?
Would you take a borrowed knife and saw on a piece of aluminum?
Would you dog ear the pages of a borrowed book?
Would you pick up a Garand at a gun store and try to do drill team moves with it?

A revolver is a heavy piece of metal...a gun is obviously a fine tuned machine..any person with sense would know that. Spinning it like that could have easily ended in dropping it.

Yeah if Airbrush had gone on like he did just for simple unsafe handling of a weapon, I would say he was a jerk for treating a gun ignorant person like that. Instead Airbrush saw that his BIL can't respect another persons property. You don't have to be a gun knowledgable person to see that is wrong...you just have to be mature...

Gun safety isn't about absolutes. It's about safe HANDLING and safe PRACTICES.

Yes, a gun with no ammunition in it cannot shoot. But gun safety isn't predicated on "empty guns". It's predicated on safe practices as a whole.

As btg3 said...the four rules for gun safety aren't there to be ignored.

What Walkalong said in post no. 25.

We feel for you AA, believe me! I just picked up (today) the Colt King Cobra my BIL absconded with from the wife's grandmother's house (her grandfather passed away). It was missing a side plate screw, spring and latch. I also found the box for the Anaconda and Luger which he does not admit to having. I'll be removing rust from the KC (thankfully SS) and buying this one from her directly.

I'm upset that he took it and upset that it's been mistreated and molested but I know from his background that guns have never been part of the equation. He's a "kid" who wanted to play but picked the wrong hobby to put it mildly. I'll fix it and shoot it and, if he straightens up and flies right I'll gift it to him, if not, my children will have another heirloom revolver to hand down one day. That is the nature of stuff.

I was not there. But, seems to me a pro-gun opportunity to educate and inform becoming a moment of alienation and insult possibly forging another anti-gun camper. Every vote counts. Sometimes we're our own worse enemy.

Yeah, not real bright. That's what happens when you have a culture whose only knowledge of firearms is what they've seen on television.

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This is very true. I'd be pissed too. I'd probably try and teach though.

me myself and I

We are the only 3 that handle my guns. Period. My wife doesn't even know how many guns are in my in the floor oversized 4ft x 6ft floor safe. I never talk guns other than here.

Yes, you were rude. Nothing that an apology shouldn't fix though, he is your brother in law after all.

I'm curious, what did you signature say before you deleted it?

Sometimes a little embarrassment is necessary to make a point on gun safety. After a point, I no longer really care about butt-hurt feelings.

Case in point:

Scenario A: I take my friend to the range. He's new to handling weapons, and has openly admitted his desire to learn about firearms. After explaining proper handling procedures, he sweeps me with an unloaded weapon. I will politely, but forcefully, redirect the barrel of the weapon so it's not pointed at me, and explain how a firearm is always treated as loaded, regardless of its actual state.

Scenario B: Dad comes to the range with his two children (ages 7 and 9), and fails to properly supervise them. While up at the shooting line, and distracted, yelling at his kids, he sweeps me with his weapon. I unload both barrels verbally, and remind him none to kindly of his dual responsibilities to handle his weapon safely, and maintain control of his children. I then tell him that if he is not able to achieve this state, he needs to remove himself from the range. We did not become friends at that point.

Both of the above scenarios happened to me. Some people I care enough to give them a patient lesson in proper gun safety. Others not so much.

Any body that 'twirls' a gun that belongs to someone else, after asking to look at it, is showing no respect to me or safe handling. Try to educate him all you want. This dodo is just the kinda of guy I don't want in my sport/hobbie. He'll never respect guns, until he shoots himself or some else. This is the guy that the news reports " the gun just went off". Type of fellow that has an accidental discharge of weapon and laughs if off.
I would have asked him if he knew guns and the rules, and probably wouldn't have been eager to show my gun in the first place.

twirling it absolutely could harm the weapon.

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How so?


Twirling AND dropping said empty handgun, maybe.

But merely twirling said empty handgun....NO, this would NOT harm the handgun in any manner whatsoever.

TreeDoc said:

Any body that 'twirls' a gun that belongs to someone else, after asking to look at it, is showing no respect to me or safe handling. Try to educate him all you want. This dodo is just the kinda of guy I don't want in my sport/hobbie. He'll never respect guns, until he shoots himself or some else. This is the guy that the news reports " the gun just went off". Type of fellow that has an accidental discharge of weapon and laughs if off.
I would have asked him if he knew guns and the rules, and probably wouldn't have been eager to show my gun in the first place.

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This brings up a good point. Often the type of person to do such things is the same type that will have an accident with a firearm of some sort due to complete negligence, and then turn to extreme protest that there is no way to safely handle a gun, and they are just all dangerous. Yes it could become a teachable moment, but if he does not acknowledge what he did as an ignorant action, and in turn only responds to your action as inappropriate, then I would not take the time to introduce this guy to shooting. All too often you'll find people who no matter what, always have other places to put blame other than on themselves for there own behavior. So maybe repair the relations with him but carefully gauge rather to have shooting part of that relationship.