Unsure and looking for answers

The second I said I wasn't sure, I felt like he had stopped listening and switched to convincing instead.

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I will admit that we men are bad about this. Myself included. I think it's the way we're wired.

The right of gun ownership comes with a lot of responsibility

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I couldn't agree more.

I also think that adding more regulations will not help reduce the amount of gang violence. Many people who use guns in gangs do not get them legally, so adding more regulations only make it harder for us to protect ourselves if we so choose.

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It sounds like you do indeed have a position on the issue. You just haven't realized it yet.

I was a bit concerned that there would be those who would bash me for being undecided, but at least I am trying to learn about the issue, unlike many others in my generation.

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We're a pretty laid back group around here and we focus more on education about guns than putting people down. We realize that everyone did not grow up with them as a part of their lives. Indeed, many of our members are newer gun owners.
I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that we are thrilled that you're not just making an emotional decision, but istead are actually trying to educate yourself on the issue.
That's what mature people do. It sounds like you're ahead of your fiance in the maturity department.

You also mentioned that others in your generation aren't open minded and trying to actually learn abou them. You couldn't be more right. I'm only 10 years your senior, but the differences are vast, at least where I grew up.

Oh yeah, welcome to the board. We hope you find the answers to your questions and stick around a bit.

My significant other had never been around firearms. Being from NY , her family is very liberal and completely against firearms. She was on the fence as well.

I told her up front that I supported the 2nd Amendment and I owned a lot of firearms. There was some debate at first, but she was very open. I took her shooting and she loved it. Especially knocking around tin cans and busting balloons with my 22 cal rifles.

Once she understood the allure of my hobby, everything else slowly fell into place. After talking to her and putting things into perspective, she supports the 2nd Amendment and understands its importance and its REAL meaning.

I am sorry about the tension between you and your fiance. I would engage him and ask him questions. Explain to him that you want to learn and that you would appreciate it if he would be patient with you. You dont have to like guns to respect the 2nd Amendment. I have a lot of friends who are not "gun people" who still respect our rights as Free Americans.

Welcome to The High Road. There are a lot of good folks on here that can assist you.

My wife went from ambivalent to a strong RKBA proponent over the course of our marriage (so far). "The deal" was that I didn't care how lukewarm about some of my hobbies, so long as she didn't try to talk me out of them. I insisted that she know how to pick, clear, and safely store several different types of gun in case she came across one when I wasn't around. I did not push her to come and shoot or to come and watch me compete.

Shortly after our son was born she became very interested in knowing how to shoot for self defense. I travelled some and our neighborhood was starting to go downhill, but mostly I think it was the responsibility for the defenseless child. Running away was no longer an option.

We've since moved to a free state, and she no longer worries about self defense (Funny that, many more people legally have guns here, but she is not nearly as concerned with our new armed, polite, society). We live out in the sticks, but the son is now old enough to dispatch a critter if needed. I did ask her (gently, for several years) to get her CCW just to give us a little bit of cover in certain situations (travelling, out of our free state but in a state we go to frequently, I leave gun in car but I am not in the car, etc). She thinks I'm too extreme when I boycott various businesses. I ask her to support me/us but don't go ballistic when she doesn't. We (kids and I) ask her to shoot with us for fun sometimes. She comes and watches, maybe runs a couple of rounds a year through a shotgun or .22. Won't write or call her congress critters (so I do it twice as often...)

Many of us in the RKBA community are a little peeved at the fence sitters right now, hopefully once you articulate a position the two of you can decide if it's a deal-breaker or not. Do not get married until you get it sorted out, and don't pretend to be somebody you're not thinking it will work out. It will not.

Mandabear3109 said:

I have shot a couple hand guns before and really liked it but haven't done it in years. I am fairly certain that I could never hunt, but that does not affect the 2nd amendment debate. So, what is the REAL meaning behind it, in your opinion?

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In my opinion, It is our defense from a tyrannical government. It guaranties us arms in the event our Government turns on us and/or becomes oppressive. I know this sounds outlandish, but if we look back in history, we have seen oppressive government in this country and others around the world (I.e. American Revolution, Nazi Germany, Russia, China etc). The framers of our constitution also stated this is the reason for our right to keep and bear arms.

I hope and pray that it never comes down to another civil war. There have been many brave Men and Women who gave their lives for our freedoms.......I pray that we won't have to fight for our freedoms again.

Admiral Yamamoto(sp?), in World War II, stated that a mainland invasion of the US would be suicide. He said that there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass. So our 2nd Amendment right also can be seen as a deterrent from invasion by another country.

forget (for the moment) the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

Do you believe that there is a basic Human right to defend one's self against an attacker?

That that right is the right to meet force with equal force?

Do you believe any law will stop a criminal from using the deadliest weapon they can acquire in commission of a crime?

The 2A doesn't really address this- one does not defend one's self as the member of a Militia. I suspect that the Founding Fathers considered it to be *so* self evident that the didn't even think to mention it.

They had just fought a rebellion against a legal government- because they won, we call it a Revolution- had they lost, they'd have been hanged. The Second Amendment clearly signals that Sauce for the Goose is Sauce for the Gander, that if their Noble experiment in Democracy should go awry, the people retained a right to overthrow it by force.

Strong, brave men we had in those days.

Glad to have you here. This is my favorite forum. It's The High Road for a reason. Needless disrespect and insults are not tolerated here.

Being undecided and wanting to learn more is what we need more of in this country. Too often we find that the undecideds are too quick to walk lock-step with the anti-gunners. I've found that after I have educated a person, they seem to follow my way of thinking some, not completely, but they get where I stand.

You SO is a part of a class of people that just got slammed by anti-gunners. Tempers are going to be high unfortunately as your SO was just told he couldn't be trusted not to be a mass murdering whack job and that his rights had to be severely restricted to serve the efforts and interests of the anti-gun crowd. That's very insulting and demeaning. So give him a second chance and approach him about his position and interests.

For you two being in a relationship, he needs to take you shooting in a safe and educational environment. I couldn't imagine my fiancee not shooting with me at least once a month. We always have a good time then get Philly Cheese steak sandwhiches.

2. However, I do think that certain safety regulations should be put into place, such as gun training and safety classes so that those who own guns know how to handle them properly. With this right comes responsibility and if someone is going to take on the responsibility of owning a gun, they also need to know how to handle it responsibly.

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I agree that someone who has a gun (and especially carries it) should have some sort of basic training and knowledge, but look at the "requirement to get training" in the same light as literacy tests for voting, or poll taxes if you are required to pay for the class. Yes, it's a good idea to make sure that people know how to safely handle their guns, that they can actually read the ballot they're voting on, or that the polls are adequately funded, but when a requirement like this starts, it can easily lend itself to abuse by those so inclined.

Who's to say that a basic gun safety class shouldn't be 8 hours a day for 5 consecutive days just to exercise the right of owning a gun? Or that the class should cost $5,000. Yes, a very extreme example, but we know that this has happened in the past in order to prevent certain "undesirables" from voting in the south. It's great in theory, but can fail miserably in practice.

2. However, I do think that certain safety regulations should be put into place, such as gun training and safety classes so that those who own guns know how to handle them properly. With this right comes responsibility and if someone is going to take on the responsibility of owning a gun, they also need to know how to handle it responsibly.

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When the government starts mandating things, its no longer a right. Its a privilege.
Personal responsibility is severely lacking in this generation and the last one. Its painfully obvious just by looking at current suits in the court system. I'm only 21 and I can painfully see this.

3. Those who own guns who ensure that their guns are safely locked away to prevent accidental shootings, such as when a child inadvertently comes across a gun.

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Given the number of gun in the US, and the amount of times a child has simply 'come across' a gun, its rarer than the media drum beats says it is. This is for a different conversation though, but I will say that when you make things taboo to children ("Dont touch the cookie jar", etc) they tend to go for it even even more ferocity. Thats the last thing you wand around children and firearms.

The best way isn't to kid-proof your guns, its to gun-proof your kids. Watch tha NRA's Eddie Eagle program on Youtube. Its a bit dated based on the animation style, but its geared toward very young kids and what to do IF they come across a firearm.

Mandabear3109-

For what it's worth, I've been married for 45 years. My wife has never been a shooter or a fan of guns in general. She's a registered nurse and has spent her whole working life seeing the devastating results of the misuse of guns. I respect her opinions and her reasons for them, and she accepts the fact that my sons and I love guns and use them safely. In return, we don't flaunt them around the house.

There are many possibilities for disagreement in a long marriage, and we both work hard to minimize them, and keep the discussions calm. Not always easy.

I apologize for saying your fiancee was acting like a jackass, that was probably out of line. But as others have said, you are not ruining the country by asking questions. You sound very open-minded.

Oh, and last year I finally got my wife to go shooting with me and she had a blast and was very good at it.



Tinpig

My wife used to be vehemently anti-gun. She's come around for the most part, but still thinks certain things based on what the media barks at her. She's entitled to her opinion, and I wouldn't dream of trying to force her to think differently. With a rational person, showing them proof is usually good enough. Proof has changed her mind on many aspects of gun ownership over the years. Proof like the police taking 27 minutes to show up after calling 911.

If you'd like to have a quiet, rational conversation about this outside of a public forum, feel free to PM or email me.

Welcome aboard!

You've received some good replies, but I'll throw in my $0.02 anyway.

What he heard was that I was not a pro-gun advocate; what I was really saying is that I am just unsure of my stance on the topic.

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We are in defense mode right now. I'm not excusing his attitude, but suggesting that you try to understand that the gun rights crowd has been under attack for a very long time, and severely so for the last 5 months. Naturally, he wants his better half to be on the same side, so it was probably very frustrating to him that you were/are ambiguous. He should take this golden opportunity to provide you with thoughtful, articulate argument from his side to counter the constant mass media bombardment of sensationalism and misinformation so that you may make an informed decision, but we all suffer from the human condition (especially at 22), and sometimes our emotions get the best of us.

As I see it, you having no interest in firearms should not be a deal-breaker in a relationship. It's always nice for us shooters when our SO partakes, but for many, that is not the case, and we're fine with it so long as our views on guns aren't diametrically opposed. That said, I can appreciate his concern; for many of us, constitutional rights, and especially the second amendment, are paramount. I've dated non-shooters, but would NEVER be with an anti-gun person. It just wouldn't, couldn't work. If this subject had not been discussed until now, your fiancée is probably very concerned that you will oppose him on this (to some of us) very salient issue.

I'd say just talk to him, remind him to be calm, and stress that you're not anti-gun. If you love him, just make him understand that his interest in firearms may not be shared by you, but will not be an issue between you on your end. He should be able to accept that, and you two can move forward with building your life together.

(Let me say thank you for stating that you understand that the Second Amentment is not affected by hunting. With this understanding, you are already ahead of most politicians.)

You bring up a good point. I guess when I said having some sort of mandatory class, I was thinking along the similar lines as driver's ed classes. I don't know about you, but I was expected to do driver's ed before getting my licence, just so that I could learn and understand the basics. I don't know if something like that would work for guns or not, but there is still the issue of who would determine how long or how expensive the class would be?

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I personally think it would be great if you got an equivalent of Driver's Ed while in school. Wouldn't it be great if our tax dollars went to fund "Shooter's Ed" as well as sex ed, driver's ed, and everything else we fund? I'm afraid though that this solution would be too logical and not serve the government's purpose.

If you have a moment, please read this: Guns & Education - Clicky

If a family has guns, they should explain this to the child

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BINGO!

Thats called personal responsibly. No government intervention is needed. So silly laws, and no random felonies.

Every household has to decide what level of safety and trust is appropriate for THAT household. If you're childless, and you never have any children in the house, you don't need to protect children from them. I keep my defensive guns available and unloaded (but quickly loadable) because the kids that are in my house most of the time are well-trained and conditioned to guns, they aren't curious, because they know what they do. I have other children and step children frim mine and my wife's previous marriages that aren't as solid, and when they do occasionally come around, I lock everything up. You have to know what the people in YOUR household can be trusted with.

I also compare it to V For Vendetta, but people on the opposite side of the aisle think it workd the OPPOSITE direction.

Welcome to the High Road Mandabear3109.

You are in very good hands here, this is a very well educated group when it comes to all things firearms.

I started out, very much in your shoes back in 2006 or so. I wasn't anti-gun, just never really had much experience with them, or had been around many folks who owned them. I got interested in firearms, and started researching them, because I was concerned about being able to protect my wife and kids. We had a vehicle stolen from our house, and it got me thinking that the bad guys were basically only 10 feet and one wooden door away from potentially harming my wife or children.

Anyways, I ended up finding the High Road, and this group has done a great deal to educate me, and now I am firmly in the Pro-gun group (in fact it can be quite addictive, and I now own several hand guns, and a couple long guns as well)

I agree, It sounds like your fiancee is probably reacting to the recent, very anti-gun legislation that was basically ramrodded through the legislature there in Colorodo. He shouldn't be taking it out on you, like he did, that's for sure. But as a man, and a husband, I can tell you that it isn't always easy for us to refrain from doing that kind of thing, especially when it is in reference to something we hold dear (like or 2nd amendment freedoms). I'd say cut him a little bit of slack, and give him another chance (that is what marriage is after all, a lifetime of learning to forgive one another, and love each other in spite of your faults)

Anyways, just wanted to welcome you to the forums, guess I got a bit long-winded. Good luck on your search for knowledge, and by all means have your fiancee take you out shooting, there's no better teacher than experience.