most accurate 9mm under 2000

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Are you wedded to the idea of a 9mm semi auto for this sort of shooting? 9mm semis are not the sort of gun that immediately jumps into mind for shooting serious slow paced bullseye accuracy stuff.

One option that jumps to my mind is a PPC modified revolver. Many of the PPC adapted revolvers would likely shoot well within the group sizes of most semi autos. Especially if using precision reloads for greater consistency.

Next option would be a match grade 1911 in .45acp. At one point I got to shoot a very nice STI Rangemaster that produced one of the tighter free style groups that I'd ever shot. And with the second magazine I managed an even better group. A truly magical gun.

Despite the fact that rc' said that combat handguns are generally only expected to produce 4 inch groups at 25 yards it's been my observation that our average CZ's, Sigs, Glocks and others manage to do more like 3 inch groups in very skilled hands. And in some cases perhaps in the 2 to 2.5 inch range when shot with skill and feel from a rest. Shooting from a rest isn't an instant guarantee of accuracy as I found out, it's a skill as elusive as free style standing to do it well.

This sort of performance is more than enough for any speed related matches. But simply not good enough for full on bullseye matches. For proper bullseye I'd want to look at a more target style gun such as the revolvers or precision all metal guns such as that STI. Or that Sig P210 which does have some reports floating around the web to indicate that it's an above average shooter.

It's also pretty fair to say that you'll need to get into some serious reloading to truly get the most out of the tiny little 9mm loads for consistency. With so little powder and so little case volume the consistency of the powder charge weights and seating depths of the bullets will be critical. Likely more critical than what a typical progressive reloading setup can guarantee. Going with a revolver and .38Spl loads would somewhat reduce the effects in pressure from these same minor variations.
 
BCRider said:
It's also pretty fair to say that you'll need to get into some serious reloading to truly get the most out of the tiny little 9mm loads for consistency. With so little powder and so little case volume the consistency of the powder charge weights and seating depths of the bullets will be critical. Likely more critical than what a typical progressive reloading setup can guarantee.
While I'm sure Bruce is pretty careful when he reloads, I'm pretty sure he reloaded their 10k rounds of Bianchi Cup practice ammo on a Dillon progressive press.

He and Mickey Fowler were shooting ~3" handheld standing groups with the guns at 50 yards during practice with their X-5 Allarounds
 
Actually $2,000 isn't bad at all to spend for a really accurate pistol, keeping in mind that 99% of the shooters out there don't have any idea what accurate is.

The Tanfoglio Gold Match, Sig P210, Smith 952 would all fit your requirements and are all capable of winning a bullseye match right out of the box.
 
I'm learning more as the posts continue. Thank you all. I specified 9 mil as that is what I have in Glock and Beretta. I haven't shot .40 or .45. In regards to the ammo being so important, is it easier to have consistent placement with OTC ammo if it is .45? If so, possibly I will need to seek opinions regarding the accuracy of .45 handgun. Possibly I need to visit our local range and rent some .45 pistols to see how the muzzle flip and recoil are.

Plz keep the input coming. You are all being very helpful. Thank you.
 
CZ is the only manufacturer I know much about their Custom Shop. The Shadow Target Custom lists for around 1300 and the Accu Shadow is $1600. Supposedly, all the Custom Shop work is what gives their accuracy. My son shoots Sig. He loves it and says the quality if phenomenal. If not the single stack P210, does Sig do extensive custom shop work on a 226
Even though S&W gets knocked for their recent line guns they have a custom shop that's rated extremely high, their Performance Center. There are highly skilled craftsmen there and they know how to make a great gun.

S&W had a Pro Series of handguns which are a mix between regular production and Performance Center guns. The Pro Series of handguns are very accurate and at a more reasonable price than from the custom shop. Of course you can send any S&W gun to the Performance Center for work. Take a look at This Pistol and tell us what you think?
 
My Sig P226E2 is a tackdriver. I paid $625 for it. You might be able to find guns slightly more accurate, but even then it will be only a millimeter or two of difference and definitely not worth the cost difference.
 
What good is a gun that will shoot 2 inch groups at 50 yards if the best the owner can shoot is 4 inch groups at 25 yards? If your capable of shooting sub 3 inch groups consistently with a standard pistol at 25 yards, it might be worth while to get a custom gun made. If you can't shoot anywhere near that, spending that much on a gun will get you very limited return.

Let me explain: a super trigger and a long sight radius will take a average joe and make him shoot much better then they could shoot a sub compact pistol. However the accuracy gained has more to do with the light trigger and long sight radius covering up bad habits then the guns "increased inheret accuracy". There is video evidence of people shooting box stock Glocks and other pistols at 150 to 250 yards and hitting targets consistently. This is with a standard sight radius and non "match" triggers. Shooting handguns 50 yards and beyond accurately is not something that just happens because you have a high end gun. It comes from having the fundamentals down 100%, and having practiced a lot. Nice triggers and supper accurate "match" parts won't cover up mistakes in form at 100 yards, like they will at 10 to 25 yards.

If you want a accurate gun, all conventional pistols on the market will likely out shoot your capabilities with good ammo. If your looking for bench rest shooting at long range you might as well pickup a long slide 1911 or a long barreled revolver, both will make quick work of 100 yard targets. I have fired all sorts of single shot pistols (some in rifle calibers) and without a doubt good pistols ment for long range can print amazing groups at 300 yards. They should be considered short barreled rifles more then anything. I personally prefer to use rifles for long range work and pistols to inside 150 yards.

You need to be honest with yourself and establish how accurate you can shoot a standard common revolver or semi auto pistol at 25 yards. If your not sub 4 inch groups all day then rather then spending 2k on a pistol spend 1,300 on ammo for a 700 gun and practice until you can. If you feel the gun your shooting needs a better trigger, have one put in. Or if you are a regular 25 yard one hole shooter, go get yourself a long slide 1911 made to your specifications.
 
I've been on steel at 100yards with a beretta 92. My 2cents would be the cz/eaa witness elite match thingy or sig. Glock 17L or 34 with match barrel and trigger time would get you there for have the $$$
 
For $2,000, you can buy an entry level 9mm in 1911 platform and have it tuned to be a certified tack driver.

If you mean a production target type then a Smith 952 is likely your best bet.

If you mean a combat weapon (standard garden variety Glock, CZ, Springfield and etc.) you're likely to find they'll all shoot pretty much the same and have acceptable "combat accuracy".
 
"What good is a gun that will shoot 2 inch groups at 50 yards if the best the owner can shoot is 4 inch groups at 25 yards?"

A lot of good; you can learn that the wild shots are all your own fault. You have to add the shooter's wobble to the mechanical ability of the gun. Look at it this way, if a gun can repeatedly shoots perfect groups of 0.00", then any variation is shooter's wobble. If a gun will repeatedly shoot 2" groups from a fixture, then you add on the shooter's wobble. If that gun only shoots 4" groups, what do you get when you add in the shooter's wobble? Even bigger groups.

My Sig X-5 TAC is very accurate (and easy to shoot and has night sights) and was only a little more than half the price of my old Swiss Army surplus P-210.
 
"What good is a gun that will shoot 2 inch groups at 50 yards if the best the owner can shoot is 4 inch groups at 25 yards?"

A lot of good; you can learn that the wild shots are all your own fault. You have to add the shooter's wobble to the mechanical ability of the gun. Look at it this way, if a gun can repeatedly shoots perfect groups of 0.00", then any variation is shooter's wobble. If a gun will repeatedly shoot 2" groups from a fixture, then you add on the shooter's wobble. If that gun only shoots 4" groups, what do you get when you add in the shooter's wobble? Even bigger groups.

My Sig X-5 TAC is very accurate (and easy to shoot and has night sights) and was only a little more than half the price of my old Swiss Army surplus P-210.
+1 A shooter being less accurate than his gun is certainly preferable to the gun being less accurate than the shooter. I can learn to shoot an accurate gun well, but if the gun lacks accuracy potential, no amount of practice will make the gun get any better.
 
If you can't shoot a 4 inch group at 25 yards with a standard production pistol, your not going to magically shoot a 1 to 2 inch group with a high end gun. A high end gun will make a bad shooter better, but spending 2,000$ to get 6 to 10 inch groups with a standard pistol at 25 yards down to 4 to 6 inches (what a excellent shot can do with a box stock gun) doesn't make sense to me.

Which is why I am saying accuracy of a handgun is not a issue unless you are either A) shooting from a vise or a rest, and B) are capable of shooting sub 4 inch groups with a standard gun. I know more people that can shoot sub 4 inch groups at 25 yards with box stock guns then guys who have guns that shoot sub 2 inch groups at 25 yards, that can shoot anywhere near that.

My main accurate pistol is a czsp01 with recent 400$ of custom work to it. I have trained 30 people to shoot pistols with it since it was finished, and most will shoot 3 to 3.5 inch groups at 21 feet with it (first time shooters). When I let the people shoot their own pistol they will often shoot 3.5 to 4 inch groups, without significant difference (other then flyers caused by a flinch). Even experienced shooters will shoot my gun better then many box stock guns they might have, but we are not talking going from 3 inch groups at 21 feet down to 3/4 inch one hole groups. This gun has the best SAO trigger short of a full custom 1911, and it's not turning good shots into bullseye shooters. A 20% decrease in group size when you shoot big groups isn't as good as a 1% decrease in group size when you shoot tight groups already.

What you guys are overlooking is that virtually all guns made now are capable of shooting more accurately then the person holding them. And how a particular gun fits a persons hand, trigger reach, sight setup, etc will do by far more to affect accuracy then the differences between pistols "claimed accuracy". The OP could print better groups at 25 to 50 yards with a box stock XDM pistol then a 2000$ custom 1911 because the pistol works better for their hand. I know I personally can shoot certain guns better then others simply because I have large hands and short trigger reaches makes it difficult to press the trigger smoothly. Yet another person that's a good shot might not shoot the big frame pistols I typically shoot, as well as I do.

Which is why I don't buy into inherent accuracy claims of pistols, and spending money on something because of accuracy claims has no meaning unless your already a dead on shooter. Then again I am the guy at the range that outshoots your average person with iron sights on a rifle at 50 yards, with my 44mag revolver or 22 converted CZ. Had I spent 2k on a 1911 back in the day instead of on a 400$ gun, 1400 on ammo, and 200 on training, I would be a average shot with a 2,000 dollar gun, instead of a very good shot. I get the whole "I want the gun to be way more accurate then me so I have myself to blame". The problem is the limiting factor on handgun shooting is the shooter themselves. And until the individual progresses with their skills, they will never be as accurate as they could be.

One of the problems with the whole "buy a high end gun and work with it" mentality is that until you have shot a lot, and tried out a lot of different pistol platforms, your taking a shot in the dark on buying a pistol that will work for you. If you can shoot well enough to claim you need the ability of a high end gun, you have a good idea of what platforms work for you already. You wouldn't be on here asking a question like "what's the most accurate handgun", that suggests a individual who doesn't have enough experiance with shooting handguns to know what platform works for THEM. What platform works for a individual is more important then what any particular gun can shoot when put in a vise. I shoot my 44 mag revolver with 8 3/8ths barrel better with cheap ammo, then any custom 1911 I have ever shot (and I have played with a lot of them). Yet without a doubt the high end 1911s I have shot will print better vise rested groups. Moral of this story is don't be the guy with bragging about how accurate a gun is, and buying one for that reason, unless you have the skills to back it up.
 
A lot of good; you can learn that the wild shots are all your own fault. You have to add the shooter's wobble to the mechanical ability of the gun. Look at it this way, if a gun can repeatedly shoots perfect groups of 0.00", then any variation is shooter's wobble. If a gun will repeatedly shoot 2" groups from a fixture, then you add on the shooter's wobble. If that gun only shoots 4" groups, what do you get when you add in the shooter's wobble? Even bigger groups.

Most handguns will fire sub 3 inch groups at 25 yards. A high end handgun might shoot sub 1 inch from a vise. In theory you would think this would automatically mean if you shoot 5 inch groups at 25 yards with say a xdm, that going to a custom gun that shoots 1 inch will give you 3 inch groups. Yet this never happens as many people think. There is more to shooting accurate then how accurate the gun is. I have had shots land straight through a 1/2 bullseye at 150 yards with my 44. This is a rare exception and I couldn't do it consistently with any stretch of the imagination. Consistency is all that matters for accuracy. You can shoot low left, and still shoot a one hole group if you do it consistently.

The arc of movement (shooters wobble) is not as big of a issue as many make it out to be. Pistol to pistol this will only account for a very minuet difference. Sure depending on how well the pistol fits your hand could help minimize it, but this is a issue all good shooters have to work with. If you have your sights aligned properly and you pull the trigger when they are at the same point of movement you can eliminate its effect drastically. Again this is stuff that matters more then "inherent accuracy".
 
Indeed, the displacement of shot due to natural shooters' wobble is miniscule compared to the effects of disrupted sight alignment. I was always taught not to shoot at a point but at an area. Accept that the sights will move slightly, and concentrate on getting that good trigger squeeze.
 
Greggry,

I feel you are downplaying the biggest part of the issue. Target shooting is really a mental sport in my experience. Yes physical toning is important but I feel from my competition days it was more in the head and eyes not body. Most shooters I see at the range can get better if they shoot better equipment and know it is capable of better. Many shooters plateau early because they just assume it is the gun and not them. High end guns eliminate this problem.

If you accept that premise, then you can see the reason for wanting 210's or Baer 1.5" guns like I buy. I want to know that if I miss, it is either my crappy reloads or me. So I tend to take my time, build careful reloads so when I miss I don't blame it on the gun. I found myself doing that on some guns. I would just say to myself "well the 40 is known to be less accurate" when it may have been me.

With my 210's or my 1.5" Baer's, when I pull a 9 or 8 or heaven forbid a 5, then I know it was me. Not the gun, not the ammo, not the wind, but me. I can't use that mental crutch of saying it was just the cheap 9mm.

This is why I shoot 50 shot groups, not 5. Put a box on target at 50 ft or 50 yrds and you will really see what a gun and you can do. I have seen guys buckle down and shoot some really good 5 shot pistol groups. Bragging groups. Now how often do they go to pot after the first mag change? It takes a lot of concentration to put 50 shots on target and not have issues with the mental games. This is where a 210 or Baer 1.5" gun comes into play. It forces you to buckle down, realize the 5 was you and focus harder.

So to the original poster, I would advocate that you buy the best possible equipment you can afford and then a bit more. You need to have unwavering confidence in your hardware and then focus you the mental aspects of the game.
 
In not particular order: HK USP Elite, Tanfoglio (EAA Witness) Match, Glock 17L, SIG-Sauer P226SL Sport, STI Rangemaster II, STI Trojian, CZ SP-01 Custom, S&W M&P Pro Series.
 
"disrupted sight alignment"

Sounds like the shooter is letting the gun wobble around, doesn't it?



"verb: wabble - waver - sway - shake - vacillate - stagger"
 
So what do all of you "dont shoot 9 for accuracy" shoot for accuracy? just curious
 
Korth_Semi-Auto_Pistol_2.jpg


Maybe you could find a used one ;)
 
People keep suggesting the P210, but they are very hard to find under $2K these days, unless they are really rough. Most the Swiss models are $2500 and up (some way up, depending on configuration) The base new German model is about $2000 or slightly more.

Here are mine. I've got three Swiss models and a new German Target model. If you can find a used model under $2K, that's the one to go for. :)


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As for the Korth auto above, there's a used example on Gunbroker for nearly $10,000. ;)
 
Here are some of my most accurate 9mms, though most of these are over $2000, some well over.

Sig X-Five L1, Sig P210 Legend Target, Smith & Wesson 952-1, Sphinx Competitor, HK P9s Sport, Korth Autopistol, Pardini GT9, Wolf SV Ultramatic


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Like I said before, if you can find a nice used P210 under that price, go for it. Other than that, my vote would be to get a Sig X-Five Competition model. They are the same as the one pictured above, but lack the Nill grips and adjustable trigger. It doesn't need an adjustable trigger. I've had been for years and haven't touched the adjustments. The factory setting is outstanding.

The Competition model can be had brand new for under $2K. :cool:





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