D.C Protest

Howling for war is the fool's quick impatient solution instead of the day by day slogging against the lies and manipulations of the Antis.

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Agreed. We clamor for revolution because we have the fool's belief that it is the easier path to our utopia, and because we lack the dedication and courage to WORK, and the patience to let the work we do accomplish bring about change in an orderly way.

If revolution ever comes again, what follows will be nothing like what we claim to treasure so deeply. It isn't a "reset" button. It's a "DESTRUCT" button.

Sam1911 said:

Agreed. We clamor for revolution because we have the fool's belief that it is the easier path to our utopia, and because we lack the dedication and courage to WORK, and the patience to let the work we do accomplish bring about change in an orderly way.

If revolution ever comes again, what follows will be nothing like what we claim to treasure so deeply. It isn't a "reset" button. It's a "DESTRUCT" button.

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You said yourself we're outnumbered and outgunned where politics is concerned. How can you win a game when the deck is stacked against you?

No disrespect, but using flowery words to call me a fool because I don't believe we'll succeed working within the system isn't very high road, Sam and hso. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't entitle you to belittle me or my ideas.

We can all more or less afford to eat now - What about in 15 years when they're taking 60%? How about when our kids are grown and they're bringing home less than 25% of their income? After all, we have no reason to expect our politicians to be anything but greedy, lying traitors since that's what they've shown themselves to be, by and large, over the past decades that I've been alive, and well before then.

How to root out corruption when the rulemakers are corrupt? Sorry, I don't see "Vote" as an answer. Was anything ever done about the proven POTUS election fraud reported in various places?

As far as the predicted results of revolution - what makes you think we don't have any chance of rebuilding after major upheaval? Isn't that what birthed our nation?

We do have our Madisons, Jeffersons and Washingtons. People that stifle honest discussion based on what might happen, or what could happen in your opinion, keep many of them quiet. I have faith in my nation's people. Hardship will only make us stronger.

You think I call for war because I'm lazy? Far from it. I understand fully the work it would be to merely survive with no working infrastructure, to say nothing of law. Hard times forge the kind of men you're waiting on to show up magically. Those men weren't created in peacetime, brother. You want to talk history? Our founding fathers were just regular guys for the most part, until things got hairy and King George decided the colonies weren't being taxed enough. Sure our founding fathers tried working within the system as it was then - they tried for about 12 years before the first shots were fired. We've been trying to simply hold on to some shred of the rights those men fought to protect for how long now? In regards to the RKBA, we've been having our rights shaved away little by little since the late 20's/early 30's. Sure, we've made some headway towards regaining some of those rights, but it's baby steps and only really in the past 10 years. We're nowhere near to being even competitive to the standing army we're not supposed to have according to the constitution.

Like I said before, disagree with me all you want, but be men about it. It's no reason to be condescending.

I understand fully the work it would be to merely survive with no working infrastructure, to say nothing of law

where did you get this understanding?

cassandrasdaddy said:

I understand fully the work it would be to merely survive with no working infrastructure, to say nothing of law

where did you get this understanding?

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Let me rephrase to be more clear - I have a good understanding of what it might be like to survive in a situation with no modern amenities like power, running water, or readily available food supply other than what I can grow or kill because I've done it myself for periods of time extending beyond a couple weeks at a time.

You said yourself we're outnumbered and outgunned where politics is concerned.

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Did I really? I believe I've said (rather often, recently) we're doing a pretty good job right now and the political, legislative, and judicial processes have been WORKING for us in the last couple of decades.

No disrespect, but using flowery words to call me a fool because I don't believe we'll succeed working within the system isn't very high road, Sam and hso. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't entitle you to belittle me or my ideas.

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Wasn't really trying to call you a fool. Desiring revolution right now certainly is foolish, imho. Maybe I am indeed calling this guy with his armed march a fool, though -- but I'm not convinced he's just a fool.

As far as the predicted results of revolution - what makes you think we don't have any chance of rebuilding after major upheaval? Isn't that what birthed our nation?

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NO. It is NOT. Good grief -- study the men, the veritable gods of learning and wisdom who birthed this nation. We have NOTHING like them now. It wasn't a bunch of simple colonists and backwoods settlers who laid out the cornerstones of the USA.

We do have our Madisons, Jeffersons and Washingtons.

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Really? There are NONE. If there are, then they are too cowardly or too retiring or too ... something ... to show their faces on the current political and/or popular scene then. And if that's the case, they'll never have the power to establish anything more than a sewing bee.

People that stifle honest discussion based on what might happen, or what could happen in your opinion, keep many of them quiet.

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Uh...if they can be so easily stifled, they will make no kind of leader.

Hard times forge the kind of men you're waiting on to show up magically.

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What? You think Madison and Jefferson and will arise from hard times of anarchy and deprivation? Good heavens, do you know who these men WERE? Read their lives. Please!

Those men weren't created in peacetime, brother.

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WHAT? These men were the privileged, leisured class, "pampered" far beyond luxury as we know it. They had the freedom to study philosophy, language, and the classics for decades, and the philosophers and political theorists they studied were of a class and caliber the like of which is no longer seen. Any idea that they were rugged homespun sorts who banged together a Republic while struggling to stay alive is absolutely adrift from historic reality.

You want to talk history? Our founding fathers were just regular guys for the most part, until things got hairy and King George decided the colonies weren't being taxed enough.

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Oh fooey. That's such a simplistic and wrong explanation that it makes the conversation start to become absurd! American colonists were taxed less than any other British subject in the world at the time. ... Never mind. This is going to take too much off-topic explanation.

We've been trying to simply hold on to some shred of the rights those men fought to protect for how long now? In regards to the RKBA, we've been having our rights shaved away little by little since the late 20's/early 30's. Sure, we've made some headway towards regaining some of those rights, but it's baby steps and only really in the past 10 years. We're nowhere near to being even competitive to the standing army we're not supposed to have according to the constitution.

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Look, if you want to be upset that the Republic isn't exactly what it was on ratification, you'll need to start a whole lot earlier than the 1920s. Heck, more than 100 years earlier. Actually, it was almost IMMEDIATELY not what it was at ratification! I think it would be fascinating to see a nation today existing strictly on the text, but no one who's been alive for a very long time has any experience with that paradigm. Going to war in the vain attempt to recreate it, with no hope nor prayer of succeeding, is a truly nihilist idea.

Wow...use what would appear to be an armed insurrection (many people would assume with loaded guns) to elicit sympathy for law-abiding citizens.

That could tip enough 'somewhat pro Second Amendment' people the other direction and offset any recent gains made.
Only a few votes in Congress, in the future, could mean huge changes.

Imagine voters in VA or other states Then demanding more protections (gun restrictions against) from Those supposedly 'law-abiding citizens'. Laws in CO, CT, NY might never be changed.

Sam1911 said:

Hmmm... I'm not sure this is an auspicious moment for such a thing. We've just WON pretty big on the national stage, and every one of the losses we've suffered are in a few states, not involved in this protest.

Folks' tensions are running pretty high and probably the best thing would be if we let those tensions cool a bit while we let gun issues drift back out of the public consciousness, rather than alarming Joe and Jane public in TV land with an armed march on the Capitol. Hate to get a couple hundred thousand folks SCARED enough to start calling their Congresscritters.

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this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I would bet 60/40 that it doesn't happen for one reason or another. I would like to see a million man protest in Washington to uphold the "entire" Constitution. But unarmed. This is not going to help, should it actually get off the ground. It's just going to look like a rag tag bunch of "Gun Nuts", especially if there is no worthwhile voice to lead the parade.

I don't think it's a stretch to think that this guy might be getting a check from the other side for organizing this little broo ha..didnt someone post he is an anti war type?

nvm

there is a piece on uncle sams misguided children that sums it up real well

its a lot longer heres the intro and then they stop sugar coating it someone smarter than me can find a link i hope
Uncle Sam’s Misguided Children does not support the armed march on Washington, DC set for July 4, 2013. After researching the march’s principal organizer, Adam Kokesh, we’ve learned that his Anti-American ties and rhetoric are against everything that the Uncle Sam’s Misguided Children stands for.

Adam Kokesh is a member of Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) and is closely related to Act Now to Stop War and End Racism (ANSWER). ANSWER is left-wing organization that supports amnesty for illegals. In 2006 they protested against “Save our State” and the “Minutemen Project,” in California and have continued to support illegal immigration and amnesty. IVAW itself is not without its share of zealots either. One member threatened to blow up the Gathering of Eagles, assassinate Michelle Malkin, and one was even proven to be a fake Army Ranger who was later prosecuted under the Stolen Valor Act (Jesse MacBeth). In 2010, IVAW Board Members actually burned an American flag during a protest! They also support amnesty for deserters and cowards who run from their military obligations and hide in Canada.

Adam Kokesh has well documented ties to Code Pink, whose founder is a Left-wing Progressive Democrat and anti-war/anti-military activist. Code Pink is actively, as recently as last week, engaged in anti-2nd Amendment protests. Additionally, Adam Kokesh has aligned himself with The Palestine Right to Return Coalition, which, according to Steven Emerson, director of the Investigative Project on Terrorism, is the “de facto arm of the Muslim Brotherhood in the U.S. “

Adam Kokesh is a Former Marine, which leads many Active Duty and Former Marines to support him as “one of them.” But in reality, Adam Kokesh is an opportunist and a fraud whose only mission is to gain attention and solicit donations for his own pocket. Now, Adam Kokesh is poised to single-handedly unravel five years of hard work and progress by patriot groups and our supporters in Government, Law Enforcement and the Military.

Not ONE SINGLE American on this board has ever known true freedom.

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Pure malarky. i cherish every breath as a law abiding free US citizen.
You have absolutely no idea what its like to not be free.

After my retirement from the US Army i worked in two countries that were run by absolute dictators and another that practiced apartheid. One of those countries is ruled by Islamic law. Don't tell me i don't live free in the USA.

If you feel so strongly about this stuff then round up some like minded "patriots" and start a revolution: Don't be surprised when you have few followers.

Sam, I agree with you. A random rabble has as much chance of confecting a viable nation as a Neanderthal has of designing and building a fighter jet.

Rail Driver said:

Let me rephrase to be more clear - I have a good understanding of what it might be like to survive in a situation with no modern amenities like power, running water, or readily available food supply other than what I can grow or kill because I've done it myself for periods of time extending beyond a couple weeks at a time.

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going camping for extended trip does not equate with your bombast about "without law etc" feel free to share your experience in lawless areas so wr can understand and assess


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It is great, noble, and necessary to fight for what is right and true. It is foolish and stupid to prepare poorly (as in this march) and to let unqualified people lead (as in this march)

I don't see the problem, it is high time to go on the offensive and stop sitting back waiting for the ANTI's to pull crap and react to them.

A peaceful Million Rifle March on Washington would be stunning. Mom's and others can do it why can't we? Define unqualified.....I don't count myself as unqualified.

Is this the hot air club?

HKGuns said:

I don't see the problem, it is high time to go on the offensive and stop sitting back waiting for the ANTI's to pull crap and react to them.

A peaceful Million Rifle March on Washington would be stunning. Mom's and others can do it why can't we? Define unqualified.....I don't count myself as unqualified.

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Going on the offensive is fine if not done foolishly. Having a couple hundred people break the law is foolish. If you want a million people peacefully protesting in Washington then it would be helpful to not do it in a way that could put their careers or family in jeopardy. You want me and the majority of gun owners to follow you, then don't have the past track record of this guy. Someone posted that we should research this guy. I did, he is nothing but a shock jock. He is the Jerry Springer of the gun world.

Intelligent offensive is effective. Foolish offensive is counter-productive. I will not follow a fool into a foolish battle and don't be surprised when no one else does


ETA. HKguns I am not calling you unqualified or foolish, I am calling the guy that proposed this march. I will not type his name out, since I do not want to give him the attention he craves

research kokesh and his history of antics.
thankfully i think its all noise

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He has a very shady past, and is associated with groups like Code Pink and Communists. I think he's clinically insane and actually wants to hurt pro gun causes.

I doubt this protest will come to pass. I'm with those who feel this idea is foolish and potentially destructive to our cause. D.C. has very strict gun control laws and will arrest people and seize weapons with little provocation. As for precedent, here's what happened to an Iraq war vet, who owned some firearms in VA but didn't register them after moving to D.C. Other people who stumbled into the city with weapons or ammo have gotten similar treatment. See:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/2012/may/23/miller-iraq-vet-brutalized-over-guns-dc/

If these demonstrators try to enter D.C., I expect the police reaction will be swift. It is ridiculous to talk of of exchanging fire with D.C. LEOs because people don't like the laws those officers enforce. Do we get angry and drive at 80 mph because the speed limit in D.C. or some other city doesn't suit us?

Our government, however imperfect, is still the best one on earth. Votes actually mean something here, as opposed to say China, where turnout is around 70%. Too bad so few people actually exercise that right here. Yes, money determines who will run for office, and our short-attention-span culture makes sound bites and spin masters far too important. But don't talk to me of fighting the military or LEOs of the elected governments, local or national. That's criminal and treasonous. No good end if served by this sort of talk. It's the surest way to give control to the anti-gun nuts.

If this protest does take place, I think this guy will be shown to have an alligator mouth and a Cinderella butt...once he and the gang get to the D.C. jail. That's a good place to get a taste of a social system run by those who have rebelled.

Ok, I don't support marching with loaded weapons.

This isn't a train wreck, it is a head-on collision.

I can't believe anyone would align themselves with this madness.

I can't think of anything that would undue all the effort we have put into killing this administration's gun control facade than this.

Get this guy into psychiatric care. He is a loose cannon, and the Obama administration is probably jumping with glee plotting ways to make this look like they are the face of the American gun community.

rail driver you have it right. sam 1911 if you think we are winning on the political front send me the drugs you are doing or the rose colored glasses you wear lol. if this is winning I hate to see what losing is. the 2nd amendment was only for fighting an oppressive govt. it is wishy washy gun owners who turned the 2nd into target shooting and hunting while while super gluing themselves to their jailers and oppressors the police. in 40 years no one will be allowed to have a gun

hso said:

Howling for war is the fool's quick impatient solution instead of the day by day slogging against the lies and manipulations of the Antis.

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Well put.

Contrary to the beliefs of some, the united voices of citizens carrys power and influence. If people are getting frustrated because "things aren't going their way", they need to realise that, perhaps, their voice isn't being seen as representative of a significant portion of the population.

And the ONLY way one's voice gets to be seen as representative of a significant portion of the population is when, in fact, a significant portion of the population bands together in unity to MAKE it so.

This requires dedication and work, as well as an understanding of the dynamics of human behavior and group social behavior.

A premature cry to war in an otherwise peaceful society will fail for a variety of reasons, and perhaps the two biggest are lack of significant support from the population as a whole and a legal/militant backlash from the government in response which will be supported by the citizens who don't see things from the same viewpoint as those doing the rebelling.