Purchased a locked safe, and need advice on affordable safe cracking!

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I actually have a bit of experience cracking a safe (one only and it was in the line of duty....) some years back when I was in charge of my Department's property room. The safe in question was a fairly simple "fire safe" with a combination lock on the door...

Occasionally I'm smart enough to know how little I know so I went to the biggest dealer for safes in my area (Miami) and talked to an old gent who really knew what to do. Once he knew the make/model we went to one for sale and he was kind enough to show me exactly where to drill to access the dial mechanism. He then described in detail exactly how to align the wheels under the dial to unlock the safe (and provided exact measurements so that I'd only have to drill one hole...). Worked like a charm and was my one and only safe job..... Of course, nothing inside but papers.... and none of this would have been necessary if the owner had just opened the safe for the guys with the warrant....

Now for the best part (I couldn't make this up...). The nice old guy that was so helpful and really, really knew his stuff.... He was the lock man for the Watergate burglars who'd served his time and lived a quiet life as a local Cubano.... It was a treat to meet and talk with him, even just briefly....

Now for some practical advice about your safe... If you don't care how it's done, make a trip to you local fire station. If they feel like it any fire outfit can cut into that safe in just a few moments. Yes it will be messy but those guys really know how to cut through stuff -and have the tools to do it without breaking a sweat... That's the route I'd have taken if I didn't want to do the job without making a mess...

By the way... this is the first time I've ever publicly told this story. I'm sure that the old boy I dealt with has long passed away... I'm long out of police work but the stories stay with you. Some of them are actually true...
 
Texan Scott said:
Thermite. 3:1 ratio Iron(III) Oxide and Aluminum, both finely powdered and mixed. Magnesium ribbon makes good fuse. A bit of Barium Peroxide makes great primer if you can source it. (Caution: VERY reactive oxidizer!)

Stuff burns ~ 2200° F. Light the fuse and stay WELL CLEAR.

DO NOT LOOK DIRECTLY AT THE REACTION.

Be safe.
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Thermite is great if you don't care about the safe or anything inside. I've seen it used and wouldn't recommend it for your application.

The only thing I could recommend is having a qualified locksmith give you an estimate. You can pull some tricks with the cheap imported stuff from China, but this safe looks like neither.

EDIT: saw your estimate. Have you considered drilling into it and using a fiber optic camera to see what's inside to see if it is worth your while?
 
Being that it is an old safe I would be careful cutting and grinding because it just might contain asbestos as part of it's insulation fill.
Have a qualified safe & vault guy drill it and make back your money after selling it to the metal recyclers as was already mentioned.
Hopefully something of value is still inside.
 
Have you considered dial manipulation to open the safe? There are procedures available if the dial is in working order. Paladin Press used to sell a booklet describing the procedure. Good luck.
 
That safe is actually two safes in a single concrete block, and both are rated against a professional burglar. In addition to the 99.9% odds that it is empty, getting into it is going to be very difficult (or expensive as you have found out).

Would it be possible for you to drill some inspection holes in it first to see if there is even a need to cut it open?
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This would be the least expensive, and easiest way to determine if it was empty. It's too heavy to shake. There may be other compartments inside that rattle around themselves.
 
Finally, I was waiting on one of our professionals to weigh in.

Idoono
 
Use a torch while running a hose on it in an old tub of somekind, like a bath tub, that way it won't burn up the contents. The other way is to "peel it", Google it. It's done by professional safe crackers, using hammers and chissels, it is what it sounds like, you get a hole started and keep banging and peeling qway the metal, It works, and many a vault has been opened using this method. You should be able to do it in a day or less, especially if you have a friend to help hit the chisel in and bend the metal.
I saw a body shop open one using the torch method when I was a kid, with the hose running on it. There was just some pocket change in it. But it's always a mystery, which is the best part.
The old pro's who cracked the safes in the diamond district, often used torches and peeling 'combinations', over a long weekend to achieve their goal.
 
Leadcounsel;

Trying to open it by cutting off the hinges will not work. I think that $450.00 per lock is pretty expensive, but shipping it to me might be more so.

Therefore, obtain the HD power head & carbide wheels. Take your time & make nice straight clean cuts. That will help if you want to reweld and restore the unit. This may become a summer project, depending on your patience level

900F
 
Thank you all for the input so far.

Okay, some updates, clarification, and answers.

1) I techically purchased the rights to the contents of the safe. I found an ad on craigslist where a guy had acquired this closed safe from an auction or antique store, history unknown. I agree that it's almost certainly empty. However, the potential for something awesome to be inside was too tempting to resist. He wanted $260 for the safe delivered to my home (10 miles away), and that would have required significant additional time and effort investment, (for instance the main door handle has been broken off, both dials are quite seized up and don't do full revolutions, and who knows about the hinges, it's rusty, etc.) and I really have no desire for the thing because I've concluded that it is not salvagable except at significant expense, and not worth it. So for $160, I entered into a written contract to access the safe on his property and I own the contents. We have agreed that I will do as little damage as necessary to the safe, because I think he wants to use it as some back yard ornament or something. I doubt there is much scrap value given that steel is like 15 cents a pound, and most of the weight is probably concrete.

2) This safe is very heavy, easily 1000 pounds. The owner says it's 1400 lbs. I've pushed hard on this and cannot budge it (I fantacize that this is filled with solid bricks of gold...). With many people, we could probably get it on it's side or back. I'm hesitant to go doing that, but could if necessary, especially if the bottom is the weakest point, and would leave it to be 'usable' cosmetically for the owner.

3) I've considered the fiber optic pinhole camera and light option. However, I if it's like most safes there may be drawers and compartments to open and/or search. this option may work for the top section, but the bottom section almost certainly has compartments and shelves if it's like most safes, and if it were used for a business.

4) Other options are a couple hundred dollars in high quality circular saw and blades, or reciprocating saw and blades. Or both, and an afternoon next weekend. Given that the locksmith I've interviewed wanted $450 per door, I will likely try myself. Anything more than $400 total to open it and I'll just work on it myself. I just don't want to get half-way done, and have to leave it exposed.

5) I had not considered calling the fire department or police or even other locksmiths or even a locksmith school and see if they have someone that wants the training to bust into a safe. This might be a great resource and I'll call around today.
 
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Hello friends and neighbors // You mentioned water coming out of the door at one time and it has been sitting on the ground.

I'd pull it over on its side, with a truck if needed, and see if the bottom has rusted at all.
The bottom seems like it might be the weakest point to cut or drill.

This would also leave the rest of the safe intact for the current owners "project".

Hope it is full of vintage Colts covered in grease and wrapped in plastic.
Good luck and Enjoy the search
 
So for $160, I entered into a written contract to access the safe on his property and I own the contents
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I have a whole pile of locked up safes in my warehouse that need to be opened. For $150 each, you can have the contents, and I'll even do the openings at no additional cost to you. ;)
 
I have a whole pile of locked up safes in my warehouse that need to be opened. For $150 each, you can have the contents, and I'll even do the openings at no additional cost to you.
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Thanks for the note. I'm suddenly a lot less confident in my decision... :(

So, is it your overall experience that these locked safes that are 'abandoned' or however you acquire them, are always empty?

Any experiences or stories to share where a locked safe is opened by a new owner and something impressive is inside? I need a good story...
 
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leadcounsel said:
Thanks for the note. I'm suddenly a lot less confident in my decision... :(

So, is it your overall experience that these locked safes that are 'abandoned' or however you acquire them, are always empty?

Any experiences or stories to share where a locked safe is opened by a new owner and something impressive is inside? I need a good story...
Click to expand...
Maybe not a good story, but a story nonetheless:

The Mystery of Al Capone's Vaults
 
So, is it your overall experience that these locked safes that are 'abandoned' or however you acquire them, are always empty?
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The vast majority of the time. One is more likely to find something left in a safe that was used in a residence, or office, but even that is rare. The type of safe you have is designed to store cash. It would have likely been used in a grocery store or gas station. The odds of somebody forgetting cash, in a business safe, is almost unheard of.

Any experiences or stories to share where a locked safe is opened by a new owner and something impressive is inside? I need a good story...
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Last year we were opening safes in my pile, and one of them had $600 in cash (newest bills printed in the 80s), and a very cool letter signed by August Busch (the original) himself.

On the rare occasion we find stuff in safes, it is usually of no value: Paperwork, keys, and similar.

But there is the occasional story of people finding a lot of money. If you want me to track down the stories for you, I know of a few.
 
I cut through my tl15 about a month ago. Took me several hours using traditional power tools to access. The material was 1" plate. I will post pics if there is any interest.

As a1a mentioned, your safe is constructed with concrete. I would think cutting it would compromise the integrity. Perhaps letting a pro access it would be a strong consideration. I probably spent north of $100 on blades alone. Please post pics.
 
Lead;

Over all the years that we've been opening "mystery" safes, only one had anything of value. That was about $2.00 in pennies. Good luck, I think you're going to need it.

900F
 
You're sure it's had water in it? Fill it back up *completely* with water (submerge it until no more bubbles) and then freeze it. Probably won't bust it wide open, but it should weaken it considerably and will not hurt the contents any more than they already are.

I like the idea of drilling a small hole so you can peek inside with a fiber-optic.

I also think you got taken for $160 ;)
 
You know what they say, you cant win if you dont play... By the way.. The safe may be ancient, but the safe itself may be the traesure!. Think about it. Us gun guys pay roughly 500-3500 for our safes, most of them are simply not as hearty as that one. that things a beast. I bet you to a business owner.. (restored) that safe could be worth thousands... I mean its metal, rust can be removed!. 260 for that specific safe is a steal!, if you had to give a safe guy 1000 bucks to open and restore it.... Youd still be looking at a hefty profit. The opening of said safe would likely be the most exepnsive part of the journey! the rust you could handle yourself.
 
You're sure it's had water in it? Fill it back up *completely* with water (submerge it until no more bubbles) and then freeze it. Probably won't bust it wide open, but it should weaken it considerably and will not hurt the contents any more than they already are.
Click to expand...

How does one fill a 1400 lbs safe with water and then freeze it. This isn't really that movable conveniently. It realistically takes expensive equipment and lots of man power.

Let's keep in mind that I realistically will get zero back on my return on investment, and even if the safe has something in it, it's likely under a few hundred bucks...

So spending $500, $1000, $2000 to move, manipulate, hire high priced safe crackers, ship it to the national institute of safecrackers, etc. just makes no sense.

I am looking for a way to bust into this sucker for like $100 and a few hours of work...

So far, drilling a small hole or using a reciprocating saw, and/or circular saw with proper bits, and a chisel and sledge appear to be the winning options.

I did get a quote for $100 total to punch out the two locks and open the safe that way from a locksmith assistant, but the actual smith didn't call back yet so I need to confirm... that would be the best option.
 
I have no better way of identifying this safe, other than thinking it's a TL 15 or TL 30 safe. Perhaps someone here can tell me exactly the model number. I think it was made in the mid-1970s, and the serial number is 6567x.
 
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