A Policeman does it Right

Good video. Most cops do the right thing all the time. But bad news spreads faster than good. And there's also the fact that gun owners tend to be more liberty-minded than most folks, which is great. But the problem comes when you take that mindset and let it cause you to think "person in authority=bad" all the time. It causes a lot of general dislike towards police just because police represent rules and law. Cops are the ever present in-your-face representation of law that everyone sees. You can get pissed off at Congress, or the President, or SCOTUS, even your mayor or city council all the time. But one rarely runs into any of these people or sees one sitting in a car on the drive to work. They see cops though. So cops become the "authority=bad" target for everyone. Toss in the fact that most of the time when an average person is talking to a cop, something bad has happened (whether to them or because of them) and there are a lot of negative emotions around; that also contributes to a general attitude of anything relating to police is probably bad. That seems to be a common theme among a lot of gun forums, and with the people in this video as well. It's a shame really because a lot of rank and file police officers, especially in "fly over" country, are on our side in a lot of ways. Take the chiefs and NY/LA/Chicago cops out of the mix and police actually have a lot in common with liberty loving gun owners.

The problem is that it seems like almost every cop I ever talk to was a bullied kid with a complex and has allowed the power of being a law enforcement officer go to their head.

They will give legal advice on things they know nothing about and sometimes threaten you when you're not actually committing a crime. It doesn't help that most police departments won't "break blue" and hold officers accountable when they actually do screw up.

It is good to see police who aren't like this however and I have met a few, it is just unfortunate that I can count them all on one hand.

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Very calm cop that is.

But am i the only one who thinks
those to college guys are being total ...:banghead:

On officers in general: When you know of officers in one agency describing another town's PD as a "goon squad", you become aware that there are agencies with problems that trickle down from the top, like hiring and training like. I'll go out on a limb and declare that most policemen do it right and make every effort to do so; individual officers like the infamous Daniel Harless of Canton OH stick out like sore thumbs.

I have no fear when my hometown police police are behind me. The local PD fired an officer over an incident where a lot of the public felt that the initial 3-day suspension and retrain were sufficient punishment (a stubborn alderman wanted him fired). There are jurisdictions I would rather drive around than through. A local op-ed pointed out, cops in Virginia have funsies ticketing drivers from Tennessee whose Tennessee-legal window tinting is above Virginia standards.

Good cop, bad cop, and "college guys open carrying in Oregon" reminds me that one of the lesser reasons I got a carry permit (besides the car jack murder of two of my brother's friends) was this: Tennessee outlaws "going armed", having a weapon for offense or defense in public, with the exception for handgun carry permit holders (TN is open or concealed, concealed preferred but accidental exposure treated as open carry). You can transport a gun to go hunting and target shooting without being in violation of the "going armed" statute; however, folks use that as a excuse to go armed. Traveling to family property on the mountain to shoot, I cross four county lines and pass through three municipalities, and decided a HCP would be a stay out of jail free card.

It's a shame really because a lot of rank and file police officers, especially in "fly over" country, are on our side in a lot of ways.

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Back in the 1970s it was two city detectives and state corrections officer who persuaded me that having a gun at home for self defense was good idea, and I get the impression most local cops support shall-issue carry permits started in 1996. (In the 1970s public carry permits were at discretion of county sheriff, protective gun at home or place of business was an absolute right, transport to and from hunting grounds or target ranges or other tradition lawful uses was protected.)

Has anyone read some of the comments following the video?

Here in Ohio we have open carry, not a big deal. However, most average citizens are clueless as to what open carry actually is.

If I decide to strap a handgun on my hip and sling one of my AR rifles over my shoulder and wander around town to make a point and display my rights would that be a good idea? I think not as my local police would be deluged with 911 calls about a man with a gun wandering around. I am sure they have better things to do with their time and resources.

In my opinion Officer Estes did an excellent job in handling the situation. Additionally in my opinion and just my opinion, the guys involved in this have some serious growing up to do. They do more to hurt the pro gun lobby that help it.

Just My Take
Ron

Echoing what others are posting...

13 minutes of a 14 minute video diverted valuable police resources to 991 style calls ppl reporting a guy with a rifle, not a sidearm, the rifle got their attention. Just to 'prove a point', versus real crime enforcement. The same video could've been made via contacting the LPD, asking for interview, rules etc and videoing that.

With age cometh wisdom.

Anyone else going to try this? I suggest having another friend walking in front or in back, with a sign ''excercising rights to open carry'' or something similar.

But please, departments are stretched enough already and shifts are short, criminals LISTEN TO SCANNERS for radio traffic (including the cellular styles) and LOOK for holes in police coverage way, way, way beyond shift change times!!!

Common courtesy on the part of the 'kids' would have shortened that encounter considerably and not wasted the resources of 3 Police units.
Officer Estes was clearly a respectfull man. Those kids could have been as respectful to him and just showed thier ID.
These knuckleheaded videos are becoming more and more common place and it's only a matter of time until something stupid occurs.

I find it interesting that this happened in the town adjacent to where I attended college. I would not put it past a university student to pull something like this. I completely understand wanting to "make a statement" but there are better ways to accomplish this. Hosting shooting events for the community and having the media cover it are much more positive. It also helps the organization if they contribute to the community in some way, either through service or giving back. In my community, we offer a free handgun safety class and host shooting events such as rimfire shoots.

I must commend the officer for his level of patience and being level-headed.

A while back, there was a "I got harassed for exercising my rights" video here where I live. A guy strapped an AR on his back and started walking around in the mall. OF COURSE the cops showed up! Then it was all over the news, the guy had his ten minutes of fame and ended up paying a fine for disturbing the peace. We then spent the next several months (and who knows how many millions of dollars) with every state legislator trying to get his/her name in the media by drafting legislation to either "Stop the practice of charging legally open carry people for disturbing the peace" or the other side who wanted to make it easier to charge them. In the end, nothing passed, we still have the right to open carry, and the cops can still charge you with a misdemeanor if you do a stunt like that.

What a waist!

Personally, I don't think open carry is a good idea anyway. Not from the standpoint that I don't think people should have the right, I do think they do have the right. For me, if you are open carrying and some nut job decides to go on a rampage.... Who is going to get popped first?

I think these OC encounters have gotten to the point where the police know they are going up against defiant people that have researched the laws and plan to hassle the responding officer. The only thing I can see coming out of these encounters is probably more laws that violate peoples privacy in the near future.

It's one thing to know and exercise your rights. It's another altogether to do so while thumbing your nose and pounding your chest to do so while waisting the time of others and drawing attention from all around you stirring up unnecessary concern. It's my right to kill in self defense. Should I set up a scenario of luring a thug into my house to film it to prove that right? Some things simply don't need any proof. What was proven here? One thing, 15 minutes of my life will never be replaced due to watching 3 punks "proving their freedom" at the expense of looking stupid. They look like idiots and 1 more cop looks like the good guy he is.

People are people -wherever and whenever you find them... that goes for cops as well. When I had a crew on the street I always had at least one guy I didn't send if sensitivity and discretion were required. I also had more than one you could send into any situation and have full confidence they'd resolve it with a minimum of fuss - always (and although I've cited "guys" I'm also including female officers who could be just as well mannered or bone-headed as anyone you've ever met...).

As a young copper I probably started more fights than I should have -by the end of my career I could walk into a very bad scene and usually persuade any offender that I was their best chance at minimizing their troubles -even when they were going to be going down hard for the blood on the ground... all without using a firearm at all...

Overall, though, I've been very glad that my years on the street were long before cell cameras and "recorded everything" became common-place... very glad.

Yes you have the right to open carry, but that does not mean you have to be thick skulled about it. If the Officer asks you for your ID what is the problem? Just hand it over to him, hes no harrassing you he is making sure you are who you say you are and what your doing is not illegal. For all he knows you could be some gang banger doing nothing but stirring up trouble. I'm not even 18 and have been asked for my ID (not driving either) I either told them I didnt have it (i dont often carry a wallet when I'm just passing time in town) or I just handed it to them when I did have it. Never did I feel I was being "intimidated" when the officers were just doing their jobs. People you cant wear your heart on your sleeve, its just not healthy and will cause more problems than good.

I couldn't get the video to load on my phone. Why were they confronted in the first place?

Seems like the OC'ers were being jerks, and yeah, that doesn't help the cause. You can be polite and still exercise your rights.

If the Officer asks you for your ID what is the problem?

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Because, it's irritating. I shouldn't be stopped and asked questions for just walking around minding my own business.

Have you ever been asked for ID after posting on the Internet? That'd get irritating really quick.

If I was walking around OC'ing, minding my own business. I'd be irritated that an officer is trying to engage me or asking god ID, too. I'm not doing anything wrong, and I just want to be left alone and get on with my day, not answer questions for officers.

The guys could have politely declined to talk to the officer, but they probably shouldn't have been confronted in the first place.

We have lost a lot in the last generation. I'd like to get it back.



Mike

I think the officer was very cool in how he handled the situation. Except he obviously did not feel threatened so at that point all he was doing was trying to condition the guys into doing what he asked. If he did feel threatened he would not have allowed them to keep their weapons. Don't get me wrong I think he is obviously a smart LEO, he doesn't want to come off like a JBT on video, but he is still insistent upon their allowing him to get their ID.

He obviously doesn't believe they are felons, so honestly what is his reasoning other than trying to condition them to comply?

Rights unused are soon rights lost. Being able to go about your business, in the performance of a legal act, w/o being stopped is a valid thing. I support LEOs in the performance of valid LE activities. Stopping someone in the performance of a legal act, w/o reason to suspect a criminal act isn't one of them. Of course some will justify anything done by a LEO under just about any circumstances. (There were some who justified Harless's actions) So I guess it takes all kinds.

yea he is a great cop. he pulls out a fully auto AR with a short barrel like he is in afghan. why in Gods name does police need a gun like that with a bullet proof vest.?? did you ever think of that? police and their supporters act like cops are storming the beach in Normandy every day 24 hrs a day and locked in a life or death struggle with satan. my father was a cop then detective in NYC and carried a 38 revolver with NO bullet proof vest. the more the police tell us crime is down to nothing the more military hardware they buy. I would not be worried about getting shot by those kids but at 3 AM I would worry about the cop doing it

He wants to know what someone is up to if they may in the future cause trouble. Around here we have a few problems with people my age and substance abuse, I'm not one of them so I dont care about being asked a few questions, because I know the officer has a legitimate concern that I may be doing something I should not be. Now I might be a little irked if say i was setting on a bench or at a park table and asked for my ID then i might be inclined to refuse, but going out of your way KNOWING you will encounter a LEO and then dragging out the encounter solves nothing but to as others have said waste resources and the time of everyone involved. Police arnt bad there isnt a nation wide effort by most police departments to condition people into being mindless slaves, if you believe that I have to say I think your wearing your LEAD foil hat a little too tight.

If I decide to strap a handgun on my hip and sling one of my AR rifles over my shoulder and wander around town to make a point and display my rights would that be a good idea? I think not as my local police would be deluged with 911 calls about a man with a gun wandering around. I am sure they have better things to do with their time and resources.

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Very few resources need to be taken for a 911 dispatcher to simply explain to a complainant that carrying one or more firearms peaceably is not a crime, and to call back if the person starts threatening people or shooting.

He obviously doesn't believe they are felons, so honestly what is his reasoning other than trying to condition them to comply?

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What does a felon look like? After all that all he had to go by..

What does a felon look like? After all that all he had to go by..

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All he had to go by was that there were 3 people walking around performing a legal act......

If he felt they were felons, out to do ill, then I kinda doubt he would have just walked right up (without drawing his sidearm) and engaged them in polite conversation. Further more it isn't all that common (not unheard of but not common) for those about to do violence with firearms to walk around with them slung, carrying video cameras.

Your comments point towards your assuming that anyone openly armed, must be out to do ill! SMH!

Your comments point towards your assuming that anyone openly armed, must be out to do ill! SMH!

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Not at all, but I do think these type of videos are pretty <deleted>.

I opened carried for years before CHL laws were enacted.. Rode everywhere on my bike with a model 60 strapped to me as a youngster.. Never once was I ever stopped. Yeah different eras.. It is what it is..

Why do you assume a felon would be out to do ill right then? You can become a felon for possessing an osprey feather, speeding too much, cheating on your spouse, accidentally carrying certain software outside of the US. Heck in states that still have sodomy laws on the books, anything other than traditional coitus can be a felony. There's a good chance 95%+ of the readers of this very forum have performed some action that is a felony somewhere in the US.

A: How does the cop know they weren't convicted for hitting the wrong person with a snowball (battery) and that person called the cops. It's happened before.

B: I hope more peoeple realize how stupid the "no guns for all felons" law is. The amount of new felony laws that the states and feds have added is astronomical. A felon is NOT only someone who raped, murdered or invaded a home. A felon can be a college buddy who urinated one too many times outside a bar, someone who downloads music, the owner of a body shop with improperly posted waste disposal signage, and yes, even you if you've had some for of sex other than traditional intercourse.

And that's the point. Want to get rid of gun owners? Don't ban them outright. Just convince the public to let you create two groups: one that can own guns and one that can't. Then slowly shift more and more people into the "can't" group until no one (except your elite buddies and supporters) can.

The person who called 911 is the one who is wasting resources.