So you hear a noise, now what?

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Posted by Godsgunman: ...obviously in your situation your daughter is your main concern being on the first level. Is she properly trained with a firearm? Does she have easy access to one in her room? If not I would suggest that getting her trained in self defense and firearm tactics would be the first thing. Obviously I don't know your or her personal situation and whether she is physically able to do such things, its just a suggestion. It just makes sense that she should be able to protect herself first then have you as backup....
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That's a good put, considering that the daughter is twenty five years old.

It raises an obvious point about the wisdom of going down with gun in hand with another family member waiting armed in a defensive position. Having a rehearsed plan is of utmost importance.

Everything should start with risk analysis. Having family members in locations to which one cannot get without exposing oneself to ambush is not a desirable situation. Can that be avoided? If not, what other mitigation strategies might be available?

On page 3 of this thread, Frank Ettin posted links to several lengthy prior discussions about what to do and what not to do in the event of possible indications of an unlawful entry or attempt at same. It is unquestionable that getting others to safety is paramount, but that doing so may involve serious risks.

It seems to be a natural reaction for the untrained to want to go forth to investigate or to confront. However, informed opinion suggests doing otherwise. To summarize the downside as discussed in threads that go back into 2008:

  • There is a serious risk of the defender being ambushed, and the odds against the defender who steps out of a safe position are overwhelming;
  • while the primary motivations of intruders may not include harming anyone, their stong desire to avoid capture or being killed can result in gunfire that would not otherwise occur unless they are approached or their escape route is blocked;
  • there is the risk that the defender will shoot an innocent person;
  • and there is the very real risk of the defender being shot by ariving first reponders or armed citizens.

The last of these can occur, and has occurred, both indoors and out.
 
If I awoke to intruder noise, I'd silently arm myself and wait for the door to open. As far as where I'd wait, I've entertained the notion of fake sleeping with one eye partially open. Another idea I've had is to lie on the floor in view of the doorway, on my back, with light and pistol in hand. As soon as it opens, shine the light, identify the person, and fire if necessary. It seems so unconventional that it just might work. Nobody is expecting downward threats, whereas you have almost certainty of knowing where their torso is.
 
Not sure how this applies to our discussion but I had a friend who was a missionary to Kenya several years ago and one of the things they did was have all the sleeping areas of the house in one wing and then they put a steel gate over that hallway to that area of the house.

Granted their level of perceived threat was much higher because being American they were perceived to be fabulously wealthy by local standards but in the three years they were there they never had any problems.
 
Trunk Monkey said:
Not sure how this applies to our discussion but I had a friend who was a missionary to Kenya several years ago and one of the things they did was have all the sleeping areas of the house in one wing and then they put a steel gate over that hallway to that area of the house...
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I think something like that can be a fine idea. Being able to set up one's home with security and defensibility in mind is a good thing.

Jeff Cooper did just that when he designed and built his home at Gunsite.
 
I don't really see how this thread has gotten this far. Tactics this and training that for clearing a house is a bunch of hooey, in my OWN opinion.

I personally can't justify giving my money to some "specialist" for a defensive class, when all he's going to do is tell me to wait behind my bed with a gun and call the cops, or he's going to have me do a billion and a half different things to clear my own house. Screw that noise.

Training that does make sense, is rapid fire with your defensive weapon of choice. No sense in shooting if you can't keep your rounds on target.

I'm not a bodyguard for a foreign dignitary inside of a mansion with swat teams constantly bombarding the house. I'm a man going to school in a college town with a 2000 square foot home. Sufficient lighting is always on, so I have no need for a weapons light, and there is only two rooms I have to open doors to see inside, and those are bathrooms.

I have an 870 Wingmaster with an 18" barrel, 8 rd magazine, and a steel butt plate. If anything ever goes wrong to where I have to use up all the ammo in it (000 + 00 + Brenneke Slugs btw) then I'm going to throw it at them and get my old .44's.
 
Just so we're clear, who here is actually suggesting calling the police every single time they are awoken by an undetermined sound at night (or any other time for that matter)?

It's very very easy to type out "don't ever clear a building on your own". Ok then, what are some other options. Keep in mind that after the first few false alarms, you're going to be known as the guy who cried wolf among your local police. And that every time you take an officer off patrol or a real call to investigate something that turns out to be nothing, you're increasing their response time to other calls which may actually be real.

Are we really suggesting calling the police every single time?

Tactics this and training that for clearing a house is a bunch of hooey, in my OWN opinion.
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Then with respect, your opinion is stated from a point of ignorance. I have been clearing buildings with the military for 7 years and with law enforcement for 2. I have fired live rounds at people and had people fire live rounds at me. Training is essential. There is no way to understate this. To say otherwise is pure ignorance. Yes even in your 2000 sq ft home. Tactics like cutting the pie, how and when to use a light, switching hands with your weapon to minimize exposed body surface are just smart. You may retain your own opinion. But that's the neat thing about fact. Facts don't care about opinions. And the fact is, moving through an building against an armed attacker is extremely dangerous, even with training. I'm sorry you don't believe that. I truly hope no one ever forces you to reconsider that belief.
 
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" Then with respect, your opinion is stated from a point of ignorance. I have been clearing buildings with the military for 7 years and with law enforcement for 2. I have fired live rounds at people and had people fire live rounds at me. Training is essential. There is no way to understate this. To say otherwise is pure ignorance. "

That's ok. Ignorance is bliss, and most folks are happy that way. I am not in any branch of military service, nor law enforcement, and I don't claim to be. I am not a member of any entry/clearing team.

I have fired rounds at intruders, and have been on the wrong end of a knife. In all instances a proper stance and proficiency with buckshot has been all I need.

I am not saying you're wrong or right, we just have a difference of opinion.


EDIT - To add to your edit.

"Tactics like cutting the pie, how and when to use a light, switching hands with your weapon to minimize exposed body surface are just smart. You may retain your own opinion. But that's the neat thing about fact. Facts don't care about opinions. And the fact is, moving through an building against an armed attacker is extremely dangerous, even with training. I'm sorry you don't believe that. I truly hope no one ever forces you to reconsider that belief."

In my last post I said that sufficient lighting is always on to identify unknown folks in my house so I have no need for a weapon light.I doubt anyone is going to bring in a ladder and climb 20 ft up in the air to pull a tab just so I won't be able to see anything. I am ambidextrous and I do run drills around the house, switching shoulders/hands as necessary to expose the least of myself.

My tactic is called common sense. if there's people in my house, I'm calling the 5-0 and waiting in my room with my guns. If a lone drunk breaks in I will deal with the situation accordingly. An alarm system and a camera that covers the entire first floor is a good thing to have to assess situations.
 
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Ragnar Danneskjold said:
Just so we're clear, who here is actually suggesting calling the police every single time they are awoken by an undetermined sound at night (or any other time for that matter)?

It's very very easy to type out "don't ever clear a building on your own". Ok then, what are some other options....
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The bottom line is that there's a conundrum. On one hand, there are many false alarms. On the other hand, as you, yourself, have pointed out, solo clearing is an extremely dangerous activity even for one with considerable training; and I suspect that many participating in this thread have little or no training.

So you have a problem and a tough decision to make. Do you call the police for every noise, or do you go for a look with the understanding that if there's one or more bad guys there (you won't know how many there might be) willing to do you harm you'll be at a substantial tactical disadvantage, and you could easily get injured or killed (leaving your family defenseless)? Add to that the possibility that you might have to go for a look to round up other family members.

There's no simple answer. But bringing everything together some combination of strategies begins to emerge:

  1. Harden your home to the extent reasonably possible against intruders and to facilitate knowing if your security has been breached. Good door and window locks, alarms, exterior and interior motion detectors, closed circuit TV cameras, etc., can be useful.

  2. Consider arranging the sleeping accommodations of your home to facilitate security and defense. Have a plan to get everyone together in a place of safety in the even of an emergency, and have a way to communicate when to implement that plan.

  3. If you hear a noise, don't just grab your gun and rush out to investigate. Do whatever you reasonably can to investigate without leaving a place of safety -- stay quiet and listen, look out windows while maintaining cover/concealment, think, do what you can to identify the noise without exposing yourself.

  4. Get some good training including house clearing and some Force-on-Force if available. Have your family members also get some training and work our coordinated plans for defense.

Those are all things that one could, in theory, do. A lot of folks might decide, for whatever reasons, not to do everything; but as a general proposition the better prepared you are, the luckier you'll be. The point is to think about these issues and make informed, rational decisions.

And again, everything must be considered in light of the basic reality that if you go out looking and there's someone there willing to do you harm, there's a high probability that you will lose.

JRs12Valve said:
...Ignorance is bliss, and most folks are happy that way...
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If you wish to remain ignorant, don't let us stop you. Some of us, however, prefer knowledge to ignorance; and that's why we study and seek training.

JRs12Valve said:
...I am not saying you're wrong or right, we just have a difference of opinion....
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Of course not all opinions are equal. An opinion of someone with training and experience in a subject is worth more attention than that of someone who just picked his opinion out of the air.

JRs12Valve said:
...My tactic is called common sense...
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"Common sense" is just another way to say "guess." Of course there can be good guesses and poor guesses, and how good a guess might be will depend a lot on the education, training and experience of the person making the guess. And it was once "common sense" that the earth was flat.

As a member on TFL so well stated here:
zombietactics said:
...There is such a thing as "common sense". It's roughly what would be commonly apparent to someone reasonably well-versed in a topic or field of endeavor.

People often leave out the reasonably well-versed part, and substitute a kind of "I am smart/cool/awesome/tough enough to figure it out without actually knowing anything" attitude. This is often little more than a thin veneer of bluster painted over a surface of raw ignorance.
...
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" Of course not all opinions are equal. An opinion of someone with training and experience in a subject is worth more attention than that of someone who just picked his opinion out of the air. "

Not saying it isn't. I am just voicing my opinion. The OP wondered what we would do and I told him.

" "Common sense" is just another way to say "guess." Of course there can be good guesses and poor guesses, and how good a guess might be will depend a lot on the education, training and experience of the person making the guess. And it was once "common sense" that the earth was flat. "

That is true, every action in that scenario would be a guess, no matter who's making them. As I said in my post a good guess would be to stay in my room and call the cops with a scattergun in my shoulder if there were multiple people in my house.

Training or not, some people may have the same "guesses" after assessing the situation.
 
I tried to clear my one bedroom apartment by myself one time, many years ago, in broad daylight. What I remember most is the physiological reaction. My pupils were dilated to the point that the sun coming through the window almost blinded me, I could hear the blood rushing through my ears and I was sure everyone in El Paso County could hear me breathing. When I finally found the “bad guy” all I remember seeing was the sights on my pistol against a blob. Luckily the whole thing turned out to be a misunderstanding but I would never want to repeat that experience again. Certainly not at night with reflexes that are 20 years slower.

As I stated upthread, my home is a rancher and all the bedrooms are on one end of the house and the entrances are on the other. My bedroom door opens on a corner (strongest part of a wall with the most wood to hide behind) and commands all but the kitchen. The DR and LR are back lit from the car port and there’s no way to get to the bedroom with out crossing one or both of them. No one is in the house but DW and me so I know there are no kids to account for and I know that if she’s in bed anyone I see isn’t supposed to be there. In my case I think I’d be a fool to go hunting.
 
Training is essential. There is no way to understate this. To say otherwise is pure ignorance.
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Yes and no....

Training is extremely important for a TEAM who is going in to clear a structure, especially one that they have never been in before.
To avoid friendly fire situations the team must work in a coordinated manner.
And this calls for plenty of training.



But for a lone homeowner it really doesn't take any specific "training"....just some patience, some caution, and some common sense.

Keep the lights off (you know your home better than anyone else).

Listen carefully before venturing forward (you know the sounds of your home better than anyone else).

Be consistent when it comes to leaving doors open or closed, leaving lights on or off, placing furniture or items in specific places.
You should be able to tell at a glance if something looks out of place or has been disturbed.

If you have others who live in your home, have a game plan (like have all the kids lock their doors and get under their beds upon a certain signal).

Keep your windows and doors locks at all times, day and night.
And put alarms on them so that they chime or alarm when opened (these are very cheap at Lowe's or Home Depot).
And check the alarms once a week to make sure the batteries are good.

Keep the outside of your home well lighted.

Put a "Beware of dog!" sign up whether you own a dog or not.


When I hear an unusual noise in my home, I simply can't go back to sleep until I investigate.
The first thing I do is reach over and determine if my wife is still in bed with me.
If she is, then I tell her that I heard something and am going to check it out.
Next I get out of bed and grab my Ruger GP100 (which is beside the bed just out of arm's reach).
Then I just stand there in silence and listen for a while (maybe 10 or 15 minutes)....I'll hear the hum of the fridge, the noise of the AC, maybe rain on the roof or wind in the trees....but I'm really listening for certain creaks in the floor, or the squeak of a door hinge, or shoes on tile or carpet, or drawers or cabinets being opened or closed, etc...
If I don't hear anything out of the ordinary I then venture forth.
I'll check every window and every door to make sure they are locked and that the alarms are still on.
Sometimes I find what made the noise, most times I don't.

Once, a framed picture fell off the wall and the glass broke, which sounded just like a window being broken.
My wife had used some adhesive strips to hold it on the wall, but I guess the weight was too much or the strips got too cold from the AC?
 
^^^^


Sounds reasonable. And I would not call it house clearing. The elapsed time indicates a very low risk level.

Also sounds old fashioned an low tech, like me. Coupla low cost electronic devices might fit in here. I'm thinking about it forour house.
 
Dogs will tell you what to do, if you listen to them. If our dog goes nuts and runs around downstairs, I'll know that there are no threats inside the home. If she goes nuts and won't go downstairs, it's time to call 9-1-1, yell out a warning, and cover the stairwell.

Nobody is getting up those stairs. I will not expose my children to gun play. I would rather explain in court why I shot someone on the stairwell than dig in with my children and make them see it.
 
As there are three other people in my house (one sleeping on the couch by the front door) I expect to hear commotion. At least I hope so, because I sleep like a dead man. I will crack my door, gun at low ready and hopefully catch em by surprise.
 
Actually happened to us less than a week ago. I grabbed shotgun and pistol and waited for a long time in the bedroom. Both my wife and I heard the initial beep that woke us up. We didn't think,it was the alarm. We were fairly certain it was one of the several carbon monoxide detectors. After that long wait, I left wife in bedroom with shotgun and cleared with pistol. If we thought there was someone I would have stayed put. Again we were both 99 percent certain it was the carbon monoxide detector so we weren't going to call cops. We mostly did what we planned we would do. We discussed the next day to see if we needed to make any changes to our general plan.
 
I have X-10 controllers on a couple of living room lights, master console beside the bed.

When I turn those on, it is like getting hit with the space-sci-fi "photon torpedo".
 
I live in the middle of the woods. At our place lots of things go bump in the night, from animals to tree branches breaking, there is always something making noise. I have 3 massive dogs. Our Great Danes are scary looking and have one heck of a bark. Our German Shepherd wakes up periodically and "patrols" the house. It's definitely a good feeling to have that extra layer of security. In addition to the dogs, we have 12 cameras mounted on the outside of the house, barn, shed and one on the gate to the driveway. The gate stays locked at all times. The road leading to our house is private and way off the beaten path. There are only two other residents that live off the road (coincidentally one of those residents was a Ranger as well). Needless to say, anyone who doesn't belong here would stick out. We do not have a full time officer in our town, so most nights we would have to depend on the State Police making it out here if there is trouble, and lord knows how long that would take even on the best night.

I am currently a LEO and my wife owns a medical billing company (two professions that make their fair share of enemy's). I have done my fair share of CQB (CQC to some) during multiple deployments. My wife has been thoroughly trained on her role if anyone ever gets past our outer layers of security. She is armed with a 12 ga mossy and her CZ75 (and she is a heck of a shot), as well as being on phone duty. I have my trusty AR and my G17.

I'm not sure what is worse, me getting a hold of you or the dogs getting a hold of you. I have a feeling that most intruders would gladly call the police themselves once they see what they are up against!
 
Pistol in a gunvault in the nightstand, flashlight and cellphone on top of it. I've only sprung out of bed and grabbed the gun one time, and it turned out to be for a cat/dog/possum/raccoon (we're country mice) knocking over our outside garbage can, but that pretty much stopped the questions of why I wanted a gun for the house- she gets it now.

Really, my outside dog has a different bark for "HEY, a PERSON!!!" (rare to hear) vs. "HEY, ANOTHER ANIMAL!!!" (which is not- again, country mice...). If I hear the first one late late at night I'm going to move to a higher alert level.
 
I am not to concerned with a bump in the night. If something is going down I will grab my double stack 1911 and deal with it. I don't spend much time worrying about it.
 
Indoor cameras. Inexpensive these days. Turn on the computer and up pops the 1st floor & basement. The Foscam cameras are especially nice because they have IR & full remote control for pan/tilt.
 
Story #1, firsthand:

The last time this happened, I was at my better half's apartment (who at the time had a "no guns at my place" policy) when a sound like someone knocking on the door awoke us at 3 AM. After taking several minutes to realise it was not a dream and not to be ignored, I jumped up, grabbed 2 flashlights, my phone, dialled in 911, and had my thumb ready to press "Dial", and woke up my better half enough to tell her to pay attention and call 911 if need be.

Thanks to my nervousness I dropped one of my flashlights down the stairs. Her cat was going completely nuts, alternately running around like crazy and then hiding behind things.

Nobody was at either door (and I decided someone knocking is not a serious threat--they're on the outside and are announcing their presence). Went back upstairs, wide awake. Decided not to call 911.

Knocking resumes a half hour later. Right before calling 911, I briefly look outside and see police cruisers in the street, and a few minutes later a ridiculously bright light shining in our windows (and everyone else's). Tactically, if cops are on the scene, there's nothing productive for me to do, so I just sat in bed.

It turns out the knocking was coming from inside a neighbour's apartment. I'm guessing some kind of domestic dispute with one of the parties to this dispute desiring to come inside a locked room.

Results:

1. My girlfriend decided to move to a part of town with a better reputation and not wait for her lease to be up.

2. She revised the aforementioned no guns policy. She assumed the object I dropped down the stairs was my gun. I said I didn't have it on me and she just assumed I'd ignore her wishes and have it with me anyway, in case of an emergency like this.

3. We are looking for a suitable dog. Her last dog transformed from a friendly large poodle to a viscious creature who scared off her last attempted home invader (back before I knew her). I am fairly convinced a suitable dog is of equal value to an excellent defensive firearm.

4. I decided to practice a little better navigating the stairs in the dark and not dropping things at 3 AM. Occasionally insomnia strikes both of us, and it's not a bad time to prowl your own house with a flashlight.
 
The home invasion plan I practice is 1) see if old lady is in bed with me. 2) grab flashlight. 3) grab cell phone and toss to old lady. 4) get shotgun from closet and remove safety. 5) take defensive position in bedroom looking down hall and look/listen to see if BG is upstairs or coming that way -- if so, stay put; if not, 6) move down hall and take defensive position at top of stairs... very tactically advantageous position overlooking front door area.

We have a security system and dachshunds for EW and deterrence.

We have a plan for if we're downstairs at the time, too: mainly get to the handgun in the TV stand and get to the most defensible position possible.
 
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