Marlin 1894 .45 Colt: How hot can it handle?

The answer to the OP question might be more , why bother?
Just simply using slower powders from various dependable sources of data will yield up to 300 fps over the handgun velocity, due to the lack of a cylinder gap and the longer barrel.
All one needs is a little powder selection and a chronograph.
With Alliants bludot data for the 45 colt saami spec turning out 1000 fps from a handgun that's going to turn up somewhere between 12-1300 out of a rifle. If either load won't take care of the problem, you picked the wrong cartridge/gun combo in the first place.

The answer to the OP question might be more , why bother?

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Well for one thing you'll gain another 50yds or so with the flatter trajectory.

Even medium burning rate powders like Unique will still yield 300-400fps higher velocities.

Paladin7 said:

In the example of the 357 Magnum in the Marlin 1894, that performance you mention of a 125 gr slug at 2,100 FPS is entirely within spec, all be it high end of spec, for the cartridge/gun combination. Why go to 357 Maximum territory with that gun and round?

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I wouldn't ... but I think this is where you're missing the point. Let's say you own three Marlin 1894s chambered in .357 Mag, .44 Mag and .45 Colt. If you shoot factory ammunition in the .357 Mag and .44 Mag you could be up around 35 and 36 ksi respectively. So by loading .45 Colt to somewhere around the 32 to 36 ksi mark, you're simply getting as much out of the .45 Colt Marlin as you are out of the other two. In short, you're using all three Marlins to their full potential.

Even medium burning rate powders like Unique will still yield 300-400fps higher velocities.

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Your chronograph must see better than mine, the best I ever came up with when using the same powder charge and bullet weight with unique in the 45 colt was 150 fps gain from the rifle.
Bludot and 2400 showed up closer to 250 and h110 jumped 300 fps.

In reply to Paladin7's questions about why anyone would want to boost velocities using the extra power loads in the "Ruger/TC" section of the handloading manual:

1) Because you only own modern guns capable of handling these enhanced loads, with no danger of accidentally firing them in the weaker Colt SAA or similar. This is personally true in my case.

2) Because you already have a modern (Ruger Blackhawk) handgun chambered in .45 Colt, so it makes more sense to get a rifle in the same caliber than it does to get one in another caliber and having to deal with getting a new set of dies, shell holder, cases, and bullets.

3) Because you want to greatly extend your range and energy on target for hunting purposes.

4) You could get a lever gun in a much more capable caliber the likes of the .450 Marlin or .45-70, but your state only allows handgun cartridges out of rifle length barrels, as my state of Indiana does.

5) I would point out that your claim that the Marlin 1894 is not designed for the extra power loads is fallacious, thus the mention in loading manuals explaining that all Ruger/TC/Anaconda/Redhawk/Freedom Arms data up to 30K PSI is also safe in the Marlin. Further reinforcing this, Marlin also makes the 1894 in .44 Magnum, so it only follows that it would be cheaper to make the .45 Colt version just as strong without having to go to the extra expense of having a two-tiered manufacturing process for the same model rifle predicated entirely upon which caliber it is.

6) Because you can!

What it comes down to is that I would have saved the big bucks and purchased a Colt SAA, or spent much less and picked up a Ruger New Vaquero or the like if I wanted to be limited to SAAMI loads only.
I didn't though.
Instead, I have a standard Ruger Blackhawk and Marlin 1894 in .45 Colt.
I've only had the Marlin for a year and a half, but I've already shot close to 300 rounds through it, all of them handloads well into the extra power range, and I've seen no signs of danger or excessive pressure.
I've had the Blackhawk since 1988, and I've shot north of 1000 extra power loads out of it, again with no signs of danger or excessive pressure.
So much for it not being designed for higher pressures.

I think the balloon-head brass is going to be your limiter in any case.

Mike

Limiting factor is case capacity. You can't get any more powder in a 45 colt case destined for a rifle than you can in one destined for a pistol.
So use whatever data you choose from saami spec to +p, and depending on the powder chosen, if you use a chronograph, you will see 150-300 fps gain from the rifle, using the exact same load as the handgun.
Then it becomes a matter of finding a load that will shoot accurately in both the handgun and the rifle, or keeping the two separate and somehow marking them either by different cases or bullets etc, so you know which round to use in which gun for the best accuracy.

I think the balloon-head brass is going to be your limiter in any case.

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There hasn't been a balloon-headed case made since prior to WW2.

Don

for example, why push the 45 Colt to 44 Magnum velocities/pressure...why not just buy a 44 Magnum?

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Well for one thing for some reason Marlin decided to use a very slow 1 in 38 twist for their 1894 in 44mag where as the 45 colt has a much faster 1 in 20" in short most Marlin 44 mags won't stabalize 300gr bullets and the 45 Colts will.

mavracer said:

Well for one thing for some reason Marlin decided to use a very slow 1 in 38 twist for their 1894 in 44mag where as the 45 colt has a much faster 1 in 20"

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The Marlin 1894 Cowboy chambered for .45 Colt has a 1:38 twist like the .44 Mag. A few years back Marlin had the twist listed incorrectly on their website.

The Marlin 1894 Cowboy chambered for .45 Colt has a 1:38 twist like the .44 Mag. A few years back Marlin had the twist listed incorrectly on their website.

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Glad I bought a Rossi then.

Have a Marlin 1894 Guide Gun in 45-70 and it appears to be the same rifle as the other calibers. Many people use hot 405 grain rounds while a few mad men actually shoot 500 + grain stuff. Being such a strong weapon, would suppose that a well packed cartridge - 45 LC wouldn't be a problem in a Marlin 1894.

Bzzt!

Capt Quahog, you have the model number of that .45-70 wrong.
It's the 1895, which has some fairly important differences from the 1894, mainly a much longer lever throw necessitated by the rifle length cartridges in which it's chambered, and the bolt is round instead of square.

I can tell you that, just as with the 1894, the 1895 can withstand loads considerably more powerful than standard SAAMI spec factory loads of .45-70.
The reason that SAAMI spec .45-70 is so relatively mild, just as with SAAMI spec .45 Colt, is out of deference to all the old guns guns originally designed to fire blackpowder cartridges (Colt SAA and clones for .45 Colt handguns and Springfield 1873 "Trapdoor" for .45-70 rifles) that would be wrecked by loads at the full potential of the respective cartridges.

Loading data for .45 Colt is in two categories: SAAMI spec and "Ruger/TC only" for loads that exploit the full potential of the .45 Colt case.
SAAMI spec .45 Colt loads are limited to an anemic 14K PSI, while the cartridge is stoked all the way up to 30K PSI for more capable guns.
Modern metallurgy, beefier frames, and heat treating allow these .45 Colt handguns to withstand "full potential" .45 Colt loads: Ruger Blackhawk, Blackhawk Bisley, old model Vaquero (but NOT the new Vaquero!), Colt Anaconda, Ruger Redhawk, Dan Wesson, Freedom Arms, and Thompson/Center Contender.
With rifles, the Winchester 1892 (and its clones, including the Rossi version), Winchester 1894 and Marlin 1894 can all handle the same "full potential" .45 Colt loads as the above mentioned handguns.

The story of load capability for the .45-70 is a bit more complicated, since loading data is actually in three categories.
SAAMI spec loads to be used in the Springfield 1873 "Trapdoor," Sharps, rolling blocks, and all replicas are at the lowest level SAAMI spec maximum of 28K PSI.
Moving up in pressure, is your Marlin 1895, Winchester 1886, and 1886 replicas, all of which are capable of handling loads up to a maximum of 40K PSI.
Finally, the strongest rifles include the Ruger No. 1 and No. 3, Winchester/Browning 1885 "High Wall," and the Siamese bolt actions, all of which can handle an impressive 50K PSI.

Naturally, it's perfectly safe to use SAAMI spec .45 Colt and .45-70 in all guns so chambered, but extreme caution must be exercised to ensure that anything loaded beyond that is fired exclusively in guns at least strong enough to safely withstand them.
Doing otherwise will wreck a valuable antique at the best and cause serious bodily harm or a call to the undertaker at the worst.
You have been warned.