Attention Albuquerque, NM residents who frequent Wal-Mart

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Bryan8605

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I was going into the Wal-Mart on Coors bypass, near the Cottonwood mall. I noticed as I walked in that there is a sign that says no firearms allowed on premises. Anyone carrying a firearm loaded or unloaded onto these premises is guilty of a fourth degree felony. I proceeded to speak to the store manager but he was unavailable. I spoke to a store manager, and told him how ironic it is that they sell firearms and ammunition there, and yet a law abiding citizen cannot carry one into the store. I told him I will no longer be doing my business there and that they have lost a customer as a result.

When I got home, I proceeded to contact Wal-Mart's corporate store. I was told by a customer service representative that this is, in fact, not Wal-Mart's policy, and that their policy is whatever state law allows.

I checked New Mexico state law via NMDPS and Handgunlaw.us, and cannot find anything that would contradict my carrying into that store. I was told by the associate to contact their District manager for the area, and to explain the situation, and it should be remedied. I also read somewhere on the internet that some Wal-Mart managers that are anti-gun will post these signs against company policy simply because of their personal political feelings.

I am going to contact this district manager tomorrow, who happens to be headquartered at the Rio Rancho Southern/Unser store.

If anybody else is interested in following up with this manager about their rights and Wal-Mart's corporate policy his contact information is:

Eloy Baca
office of market manager
store # 3732 - 505-962-9227

In addition, if anyone would like to comment or has anything to add, or if there is something I am mistaken about, please respond.
 
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I'm not a NM resident, but does the sign that was posted have the power of law?

Here in Texas there are specifics for what a sign must say and how it must say it for it to apply to CHL holders. For example, a sign that simply says "No guns allowed" at Walmart does not have the weight of law and a citizen with a CHL is not obligated to obey it.
 
The sign does carry the rule of law, however, it is not walmart's policy to deny it's customers the right to carry in their stores according to it's customer service representative. I believe this issue has been raised before on the internet, and the issue is actually up to corporate, not the store manager, to make the decision. However, I may be wrong. I will be contacting this district manager tomorrow.
 
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Check tx law again. The words are effective notification. Once you've been given effective notification you can't carry. A no gun sign means no guns.
 
First, lots of gun stores and gun shows do not allow firearms or don't allow loaded firearms, despite selling them. So the irony you mention isn't really that ironic.

Second, Walmart is personal property. I don't know specific NM law, but they can disallow you from carrying a gun in their store. Whether it is a felony as claimed, I don't know.

Third,
I also read somewhere on the internet that some Wal-Mart managers that are anti-gun will post these signs against company policy simply because of their personal political feelings.
Click to expand...

This isn't a Walmart-specific issue and like you, some of the managers don't necessarily know what the rules are or are not. It may or may not even be a specific Walmart policy or it may be a Walmart policy that is left open to the manager's choice.

Things may have been changed since the following posting was made several years ago...FYI, see post 12 here...
http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/open-carry-issues-discussions/134995-open-carry-wal-mart.html


[email protected]
Thank you for your message.

Dear My Name,

There is no policy against customers carrying their handgun in our stores as long as he/she is legally permitted by their state to carry the handgun.

As a private property owner, Walmart has the authority to ask customers to remove their handgun or leave the store on a case-by-case basis if customers or Walmart associates express concerns about the handgun.

For more information or further assistance, please contact your local stores management for assistance.


Sincerely,
Walmart Customer Care
Click to expand...

So while Walmart may have no corporate policy against it, you can be asked to leave if they know you are carrying and they are concerned for any reason about you.

I would think you could get the sign removed. However, the manager does have the authority as the representative for Walmart to make whatever sort of anti-gun demands s/he wants and they are legal demands. He may get fired for it, but until that happens, s/he represents Walmart for that property and the decisions that are made as the representative for the company. Just because the manager goes against policy (internal Walmart matter) does not change his legal position in banning guns.
 
Check tx law again. The words are effective notification. Once you've been given effective notification you can't carry. A no gun sign means no guns.
Click to expand...

Not a Texas issue. If it was, the notification would be improper and not a validly legal 30.06 posting.

I take it that you don't have a Texas CHL.
 
Thank you for the clarification Double Naught. I will be contacting the DM tomorrow, but you're right and it probably won't change. It's worth a shot though.
 
As a matter of fact I do. I finished my chl instructor in April. The way it was explained to me was effective notification is effective notification. Once you've been notified in writing or verbally that you can't carry on the premises then you've been given effective notification. If you continue to carry you are tress passing
 
Bombard them with phone calls. Express your displeasure to corporate. They'll either give in or can the manager.
 
dbb1776 said:
Once you've been notified in writing or verbally that you can't carry on the premises then you've been given effective notification. If you continue to carry you are tress passing
Click to expand...

Not entirely true. If it is in writing then it must follow the 30.06 guidelines and be properly marked. If a verbal notification (by the property owner or another who has the authority to do so) is given then it is a no-go. However, a "no guns allowed" sign without verbal notification or a 30.06 sign to back it up is irrelevant to Texas CHL holders.

You should probably get this ironed out before teaching CHL classes.
 
As a matter of fact I do. I finished my chl instructor in April. The way it was explained to me was effective notification is effective notification. Once you've been notified in writing or verbally that you can't carry on the premises then you've been given effective notification. If you continue to carry you are tress passing
Click to expand...

You finished your CHL instructor course in April and failed to comprehend that written notice requires a specific signage (e.g., 51% and 30.06) and posting parameters? allaroundhunter is correct. Go back and reread all the appropriate sections carefully.
 
Mistaken

After speaking with the Wal-Mart store manager for Coors Bypass, it has come to my attention that I was mistaken regarding the no firearms sign posted on their doors. According to the store manager ( who was very helpful in his clarification), NM is instituting a new law beginning July 1, 2013. This law requires that all businesses that sell alcohol to post this sign about firearms. Where applicable, a person with a valid concealed handgun permit can legally carry as before, and the sign reflects an exception near the top as such. To all who were misled, I apologize, and hope this sets everything straight for those who were concerned.
 
Sooooo, the sign tells the people that are already illegally carrying a concealed weapon that they can't carry that illegal concealed weapon in a Walmart.

Oh ya, that's gonna put 'em in their place for sure.

Morons
 
I am CCW holder in New Mexico (I live in ABQ also).

In New Mexico, you can carry a concealed weapon into a place that sells alcohol for off site consumption, with a CCW permit, or a place that sells beer and wine for onsite consumption (as long as they don't sell hard liquor). IF, and only IF there is no signage posted.

The law: "In addition to other limitations stated in the act, a licensee may not carry a concealed handgun on or about his person on private property that has signs posted prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons or when verbally told so by a person lawfully in possession of the property."

What is disturbing is if Walmart starts posting signs saying no firearms per a new state law, how am I supposed to know the difference between an alcohol establishment that allows me to CCW and one that doesn't?
 
^^^ beat me to it.

My local WM (in NM) used to have a "No Firearms" sign displayed at the front door several years ago. After awhile. it disappeared. Then about 1 year ago it reappeared in the liquor aisle in the back of the store.


M
 
As a matter of fact I do. I finished my chl instructor in April. The way it was explained to me was effective notification is effective notification. Once you've been notified in writing or verbally that you can't carry on the premises then you've been given effective notification. If you continue to carry you are tress passing.
Click to expand...
That is incorrect. Whoever explained it to you does not understand the law, or you misunderstood them. If you intend to teach CHL classes you should read the law before doing so. The law is very clear and leaves no room for confusion or misinterpretation.

Verbal notification can take any form because "oral communication" is not defined in the law, but ANY type of written notification (whether handed to the CHL holder on a card or pamphlet or in the form of a sign) MUST be worded identically to the wording provided in the 30.06 statute or it has no weight of law whatsoever.

To be trespassing, the CHL holder must receive notice, and if the notice is in written form (signage or card or pamphlet) then it must meet the legal standard set forth in the statute for "written communication".

"Written communication" is strictly defined in the statute, quoted below. If wording of the written communication provided to the CHL holder does not fit the definition in the law, then the CHL holder has not received legal notification under the 30.06 statute and therefore is not trespassing and not committing any crime.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.30.htm

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.​
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or

(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public​
.​
 
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Please. Enough with the debate about the 30.06 law. This topic is not about Texas.

Bryan8605 said:
NM is instituting a new law beginning July 1, 2013. This law requires that all businesses that sell alcohol to post this sign about firearms. Where applicable, a person with a valid concealed handgun permit can legally carry as before, and the sign reflects an exception near the top as such.
Click to expand...

Can anyone confirm this? I haven't heard about this, and as someone too young to be obtain a CCL, open carry is my only choice. This means that I would effectively be barred from carrying in any grocery stores.
 
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