Multiple failures to eject (fte)

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Douggraybeal

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First time reloader... new RCBS Rockchucker Supreme... Dies set and rechecked according to instructions...Glock 17 Gen 2 like new (about five hundred rounds) and NEVER a FTE, cleaned well after every use.

PROBLEM: First test firing of 9mm Lugar reload using Hodgden "TiteGroup" resulted in five straight FTE's. Per latest Speer #14 book, I started at 4.1 gr with Berry Mfg. 115 Grain FMJ RN, CCI # 500 small pistol primers, once-fired cases. I thought it may be the "new" recoil spring on the Glock, so I went with 4.2 gr, same result, so I went with 4.3 gr, then 4.4 gr, then 4.5 gr. Same result. Thinking it's the powder, stupid, I went the full max load of 4.6 gr. This time I got two out of five FTE's. I then fired five rounds of factory Federal H.P. that was about 15 years old and they ejected flawlessly. I'm certain that I am NOT limp-wristing the gun.

What do I do now? Is the powder suspect? I bought two 1-lb containers of the powder from a reputable dealer at the Springfield, MO gun show about a month ago. It has a printed number on the label showing 1020713 and under that a 2370 (probably the lot number). I didn't open the second container, which has the same numbers. I'm really hesitant to go over the max listed load even in 1/10 gr increments, although the powder container shows a max charge for a 115 gr Spr GDHP to be 4.8 gr of powder. I'm a bit confused here. Any input would be appreciated.
 
What are you using to measure or weigh the powder charges with??

If scales?
Have you checked the scales with scale check weights to insure accuracy??

The other thing is, Speer data is not for Berry plated bullets.

Two different animals, although I do think 4.6 grains of TiteGroup should function if anything will.

First thing to do though, is determine how you are measuring the powder?
Then we can move on from there.

PS: The chances of 'bad TiteGroup powder' is slightly lower then slim to none!!

rc
 
As rc said, I would look hard at your scales--as in, what weight of powder is really going into that case?

Tell us more about your reloading setup and your procedures for determining the charge.

Jim H.
 
Failures to eject

Rapid response! Thanks, gentlemen.

My charges were weighed with the RCBS powder scale, and no, I didn't check the scales with a certified scale set. I zeroed the scale as instructed by RCBS and "trickled" each charge to be gnat's ass on. Nothing was said by RCBS that their scale could be off or should be calibrated before use. In fact, in the instruction they seem to be very proud of how accurate and sensitive their scales are. Very interesting thought, however! Where does one obtain a "perfect" scale weight? If the scale is off at zero how can one depend on it at ANY weight, let alone in the 1/10 gr ranges? Are the electronic scales any better?

What I think I'm hearing is that the theory about the powder charge being weak is probably correct. Where do I go from here?

Oh yes...why would the Berry plated 115 gr FMJ RN be substantially different from anyone else's 115gr FMJ RN?
 
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is the scale moving when you trickle it? I notice I have to sometimes tap mine to swing if its a lighter charge or im making adjustments. keep in mind, mine is a old oil dampened redding but it works great.
 
Because Berry bullets are lead bullets with a thin copper electro-plating covering the lead.

Jacketed bullets are lead cores with a thick separate copper jacket swaged over it.

The data isn't the same for two different types of bullet construction.


But that isn't your problem.
Something else is, and the usual suspect is your powder charges are lighter then you think they are.

Did you Zero the RCBS scales on your bench after you took them out of the box before you set the charge weight and started loading?

rc
 
Like rc said, it does sound very much like your charge weights are lighter than you think. Or like also said above, what id your OAL? You may be reducing your pressure that way too.
 
I think you may not be seating your primers deep enough. Have you compared them to the factory loads?

Also, if the cases or your O.A.L. is too long your rounds will not chamber.

Will the gun go into battery by manualy dropping a round in the chamber?
 
I'm not sure what is causing your failure to eject, but I would tread lightly with TG powder, it can get you in trouble fast when loading to it's upper limits. Do Not exceed max loads with TG.

Berry bullets should be loaded using "Hard Cast" or "Low to Mid-range Jacketed data" . If your scale is correct, you are already over recommended charges of TG. Hodgdon lists 4.3gr of TG as Max with 115gr LRN at 1.100 and 4.8gr with 115gr GDJHP.
 
Are you getting stove-pipes where the empty case is getting jammed in the slide?

Sounds like a light powder charge.... Is this a Gen 4 Glock? Is this a 40S&W Glock that is running a non-factory 9mm conversion barrel?

If this gun is running a conversion barrel, you may need to get a lighter 9mm spring. Be very careful if you plan to load using a maximuim charge with a plated bullet.

Did you weigh the bullets to ensure they match the weight you are assuming in your load recipe? I have seen bullets from a factory sealed package that are the wrong weight.

I don't like mechanical scales but generally, they are reliable.
 
Looking forward to seeing what the problem was and the fix....good info for beginners
 
Yes, rcmodel, the scale was zeroed on my reloading bench. Incidentally, I individually weighed ten randomly selected bullets and they came out spot-on.

To stampedeboss, my OAL is set at 1.169, which is exactly what Speer specifies. And I mic every load. I kept the same OAL as I increased the powder load.

To frakenstein406, my scale changes very slowly and smoothly as I trickle powder. I rough-measure light and then trickle up every load.

To johnhenrystl, the primers are just a fraction of an inch below the base of the case. And The loaded rounds easily drop into the chamber to full battery.

To raibcpa, this is a stock, Gen 2, Glock 17, no conversions or changes. FLAWLESS with all other (factory) rounds.

By the way, gentlemen, I may have used the wrong word to describe the problem. Raibcpa uses the term "stove–pipe", and that is exactly what is happening to my rounds. Sorry, I have never heard of the term. Stove-pipe!! I apologize for any confusion that may have caused.

Much appreciate all the help!
 
Something definitely is wrong here. It sure sounds like a low propellant charge but the numbers you are using say that is not the case. I might try a different propellant if you can find one presently and try working up that one. Possibly Unique or 700X if you have data available for either one of those. A slower propellant will give you a longer steadier recoil impulse and that might help. I also would agree to stick with mid load jacketed data for plated bullets as a max for safety reasons. Are you able to find some jacketed bullets in that weight to try with that propellant to see if it works with them? Might be worth buying a 100 box to try. Or you could take apart a handful of factory rounds and try your propellant in them using the recipie for that weight bullet and see if that works OK.
 
Stovepipe usually occurs because the round lacked sufficient force to push the slide back far enough for the ejector to knock the case out of the extractor like this - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5456968#post5456968
130428_glock_23_stovepipe.jpg
Douggraybeal said:
Berry 115 Grain FMJ RN ... OAL is set at 1.169
Click to expand...
I think that's where your problem is. At that OAL, there's isn't much bullet base seated inside the case neck to maintain sufficient neck tension to help with chamber pressure build up.

I suggest you try shorter OAL of 1.125" - 1.135" and redo the powder work up.
 
If you have some check weights, I would use them. This will obviously help you determine if you are zeroing correctly or help identify if the problem is related to the scale in any respect.

And the other thing is, and I'm not doubting the advice of others here, but trust / follow what RC is advising, he is usually spot on with his advice. Such as Speer Gold Dots, they are not at all similar, other than being plated, which only by technical definition they are plated, but they use jacketed data.

Though everything I'm saying is very redundant, but TG powder is not a powder to toy with. Being that you are new to reloading I would start with something like HS6, Unique, AA#7.

Just be careful and be sure to incorporate everything you possibly can into your process to eliminate the chance of a double charge or squib.

GS
 
+1 for using caution with Titegroup as it often has narrow start to max powder charge range.

I have used Berry's plated bullets and lead load data with good results. Berry's MFG recommends we use low to mid range jacketed load data - http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q9-c1-How_do_I_load_Berrys_Preferred_Plated_Bullets.aspx

Here are current Hodgdon lead and jacketed load data.
115 gr LRN Titegroup OAL 1.100" Start 3.9 gr (1075 fps) 25,800 CUP - Max 4.3 gr (1151 fps) 30,500 CUP

115 gr Speer GDHP Titegroup OAL 1.125" Start 4.5 gr (1135 fps) 29,500 CUP - Max 4.8 gr (1158 fps) 30,500 CUP
Click to expand...
 
my OAL is set at 1.169, which is exactly what Speer specifies.
Click to expand...
That is not what Speer specifies.

1.169" is the SAAMI Max length for any bullet, and it relates to what will fit in any magazine, more then the loaded OAL you should use for any specific bullet shape.

It is not the recommended seating length for any Speer bullet weight.

My Speer manual specifies a OAL of 1.135" for the 115 grain RN-TMJ.

Seat to that length and start over again working up from the starting load until you get 100% functioning.

rc
 
Your OAL is to long. Do not keep increasing the charge of TITEGROUP!

Go back to the start load that bds (Hodgdon) has and use the shorter OAL.

It is not primers, they went bang.
 
That is not what Speer specifies.

1.169" is the SAAMI Max length for any bullet, and it relates to what will fit in any magazine, more then the loaded OAL you should use for any specific bullet shape.

It is not the recommended seating length for any Speer bullet weight.

My Speer manual specifies a OAL of 1.135" for the 115 grain RN-TMJ.

Seat to that length and start over again working up from the starting load until you get 100% functioning.

rc
Click to expand...

This is Spot On! Follow this advice and report back.
 
Also if you want to "calibrate" your scale in a non scientific way (see what I did there?;)) Weigh one of your CCI SPP it should weigh 3.5 grains +/-
They are pretty consistent.

Yes, Way:D
 
Multiple Failures to Eject

Well, after all the wonderful input, for which I am really grateful, I started over from scratch. I did everything the same up to powder loads and seating. I went back to 4.1 gr of Titegroup and seated the Berry 9mm 115 gr FMJ at 1.135 IN.

Result: several five round tests produced NO STOVE-PIPES. In total I loaded and "unloaded" about 75 rounds without a single problem. In addition, my best 10-shot group was (for me) a very respectable four inches at 7 yards freehand at semi-rapid fire. I'm very happy with this my first reloading experience, but if it weren't for this forum and the great store of experience and professionalism, I would probably still be at a loss for a solution. Much obliged for everyone's time and input.

BTW: I did weigh a CCI 500 SPP and they consistently weighed 3.3gr. Good tip!
 
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