springfield XDS

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The XDs has inertia feed problems when limp wristed or when people with small hands and wrists are shooting.
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Like I said, this is the only failure I've seen with mine. Hasn't happened to me at all personally. Only to two limp wristers I know.

I got my XDs early, and it sounds like things started going to hell when production got ramped up. That blows guys. Sorry for your troubles, as my XDs is a perfectly behaving little monster of a sidearm.
 
woodwrkr said:
Thoughts? ...

My experience with the XDs and all the testing and studying i've done says the XDs needs stronger mag springs. The XDs has inertia feed problems when limp wristed or when people with small hands and wrists are shooting.
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Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!? Seriously!?! Small hand/wrist does not equal limp wristing for everybody, all the time! Some gloves I wear a med & others a small AND l've never had an issue with limp wristing!!!
 
Have put a variety of factory and handloads through my XD-s with zero malfunction. This photo is a bench fired group fired at 35 feet. 200 grain RNFP lead from Missouri Bullet Co. 5.1 grains W231.
I pulled the last shot creating the flier.
 

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I have had ZERO issue with my XDs and have used many brands and weights of factory ammo and my handloads.

Why do folks mess around with a gun that has problems? SA has one of the best Customer Service programs, almost as good as SW.

If you have a problem CALL them and they will fix it with a smile.:)
 
woodwrkr
Thoughts? If the principles of the 1911 in general not including hammer fired versus striker fired can be applied to the XDs, meaning recoil, recoil springs, mag springs, feeding, etc. then hand cycling to check for feeding problems doesn't tell us anything. Feeding issues are only revealed with live fire. After all, many tightly fitted competition 1911's will stop short of returning to battery when hand cycled but during live fire they function just fine.

My experience with the XDs and all the testing and studying i've done says the XDs needs stronger mag springs. The XDs has inertia feed problems when limp wristed or when people with small hands and wrists are shooting.
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thanks again woodwrkr, you've convinced me to try to find a solution

i took my mag springs out and they are like the ones in this pic (on the right) from the thread you referenced

21971d1372364761-xds-light-strikes-xdspicsmagholderpics-025.jpg


i'll order a pair and see if this solves it

Rule3 - i'll try giving SA a call, if for no other reason than they need to know
 
As with all my carry guns I test them thoroughly.

Limp Wristing is more of a problem with blow back guns. It is usally used as an excuse by the gun maker for a problem with the gun.;)

I have deliberately "limp wristed" the XDs. held it with two fingers, upside down, gangster sideways style left right etc. Trying to get it to fail. Never happened.

SA is really proud of their XDs, if there is a problem they want to know and fix it.

PS: I have other XDs and they all work.
 
I had the XDS45 last fall (2012) and had the issues described in a previous post of light primer strikes, not going into battery, I even had the slide get stuck back when trying to rack the slide after inserting a fresh magazine. My troubles usually started after the pistol was warmed up after 30 rounds or more. (I swear I was not limp wresting because I was VERY conscious of that being a culprit!)

After sending it to Springfield a couple times they gave me the option of trading it in for an XDM45 3.8 Compact which I accepted the exchange. They claimed they could not duplicate my issues. But I stand behind Springfield's integrity of giving me an option out of a pistol in which I had NO confidence.

Beyond the issues I experienced... I loved the feel of the XDS45 in my hand when it did operate! It just felt good. Manageable recoil for a pistol of its size and caliber! I would love to have one I could trust. I am wondering if there were production glitches or design issues that had been fixed since the early model release. A knowledgable friend of mine advised I should have waited 18 months for any new design product... Live and Learn.

Any news updates/more positive testimonials on the XDS45? Maybe I just had a lemon...
 
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Rule3,

A lot of XDs owners have had flawless performance like yours. A few XDs owners have had light strikes. A very few of us like me have had a world of trouble.

My problems started out as light strikes. I sent it back to Customer service and they reported "no problem found". Shortly thereafter my problems progressed from light strikes to hard jams. Another trip back to Customer Service with pictures of the hard jams and specific hand written instructions to test my mags also resulted in "no problem". My XDs was now getting to the point of being un-shootable because of the jams. I don't know for sure whether or not they tested my mags but I doubt they did.

Next I bought two new 5 round mags from Cabellas. The two new mags resulted in a pistol that would only light strike or jam when severely limp wristed or when I used the "two finger grip". That was OK but not good enough for me. I want a pistol that runs 100% no matter what.

This is when I started looking for other solutions, answers, knowledge from the experts, etc.

At this point I think its possible the factory in Croatia has quality control problems in their mag spring production and I got some improperly heat treated mag springs.

The Tripp Research mag springs have my XDs running 100% no matter what. I can shoot it limp wrist, two finger grip, limp wrist upside down, limp wrist sideways both to the right and left and I haven't had any more malfunctions whatsoever. No more light strikes or inertia feed hard jams.

Heres a pic of the damaged cartridge that got me started thinking about mags and mag springs:

image-3.jpg



Heres a pic of an inertia feed:

image-2.jpg
 
Mine has been 100% after several hundred rounds of various lead reloads. I'm not quite as accurate with it as say a 1911 but it still shoots good. Very fun to shoot especially with really light loads.
 
woodwrkr said:
My experience with the XDs and all the testing and studying i've done says the XDs needs stronger mag springs. The XDs has inertia feed problems when limp wristed or when people with small hands and wrists are shooting.
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When were your "inertia feeds" occurring i.e. how many rounds left in the magazine (5 and 7 round) when this occurred?
 
I don't have any 7 rounders but with the 5 rounders an inertia feed could be absolutely any round in the mag.

Light strikes on the other hand were most commonly the second and third rounds in the mag, sometimes the fourth also.
 
woodwrkr said:
I don't have any 7 rounders but with the 5 rounders an inertia feed could be absolutely any round in the mag.
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Doesn't that seem odd to you? It would indicate that the magazine spring is too weak regardless of how many rounds are in the magazine. Typically, the likelihood of an inertia feed increases as the round count (in the magazine) decreases. With 1911s, its usually the last or second to last round that can get in front of the extractor. I don't think I've ever heard of an inertia feed with a full magazine.
 
If we were talking about 1911's it would be very odd. The XDs is a little different though. It's smaller and lighter as well as shorter than most any other 45 ACP. During recoil the XDs seems to whip upward more rapidly and it wants to make my hands rotate about my wrists (classic limp wrist) where the 1911 wants to push up and back without so much rotation about the wrist.

It seems to me as if the XDs mag springs are weak enough that with the XDs style of recoil the springs have trouble pushing the column of cartridges up through the mag body quickly enough to prevent the top cartridge or even the top two cartridges from inertia feeding. I've got a pic somewhere, probably still in my phone, of two live cartridges simultaneously jammed from an inertia feed. Strangest jam I've ever seen. One cartridge rammed up against the barrel hood and another stove piped at the same time. Both cartridges inertia fed at the same time. Weird, I'll see if I can post the pic. :what:
 
Here's the pic of two cartridges that inertia fed at the same time, look closely and you can see the second cartridge beneath the first is also inertia fed and jammed.

image.jpg
 
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such fine information and pics, thanks all (i must remember to take pics)

based on woodwrkr's pics, i also had inertia feeds, but they stopped the last 50 rounds - i had them 7 or 8 times the 1st 150 round, maybe 1-2 times in the next 50 rounds, then none in the last 50 rounds, iirc.

i found these about inertia feed in other thr threads (about 1911's):

the cartridges are coming out of the mag by inertia, the bullet is standing still when the gun jerks back and simply pops out of the mag. Weak mag springs have been mentioned, but lubrication of the mag hasn't. Remove all lube from the mag, no oil or silicon or anything. You can make a good mag fail by lubing the feed lips and allowing the gun to jerk with a loose grip every time.
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Inertial feed. The last round is being jerked out of the case by inertia before the extractor can pick it up. A new magazine spring will usually fix it. The reason the old G.I. spec mag followers have that little dimple stamped on them is to prevent this problem. The dimple will hold it in place. If you don't know how old your mag springs are, change them.
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What Drail said. Essentially, the cartridge is jumping the magazine when the slide impacts the frame, letting the follower engage the slide stop. An overly-heavy recoil spring can be a contributor, as can a smooth-topped follower. That silly little dimple on top of the follower in the 7-round magazine was put there for a very good reason. So many people who market magazines are either ignorant of that...or they choose to ignore it. That Browning feller really did know what he was doin'.
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(i also read in these threads that a heavier spring is needed like worked for woodwrkr)

the cartridges are coming out of the mag by inertia, the bullet is standing still when the gun jerks back and simply pops out of the mag. Weak mag springs have been mentioned, but lubrication of the mag hasn't. Remove all lube from the mag, no oil or silicon or anything. You can make a good mag fail by lubing the feed lips and allowing the gun to jerk with a loose grip every time.
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my XDs followers are flat as a pancake.

looking forward to being a happy camper if the new springs fixes this.
 
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since we are on the subject I'll add this here from another thr thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-657042.html) :

1911Tuner

I've never found a live round on ground and can't find this malfuction in Jerry Kuhnhausens 45 auto book unless it's called early release,

Well...It happens, and Kuhnhausen has missed the boat on several issues. Take his "Balanced Thrust Vector" description, f'rinstance. "Early Release" works, though. Pretty much says the same thing. Many new magazine designs release the cartridge too early and too abruptly, and often lead to loss of control before the extractor picks it up.

the OP said mags worked in other guns without problems.

Sometimes the gun is a contributor. Overspringing the slide makes it more likely. Underspringing the slide for +P or even hardball-spec ammo will, too. A dead perpendicular breechface is an often overlooked contributor. The breechface is correctly set at 89 degrees/8 minutes...not 90 degrees.

Sometimes the distance between the breechface guide blocks is too narrow...which will do the same trick, but for different reasons. I like to see .484-.488 inch. Some smiths want .490 or even a little more. Below .480 inch, and it becomes a matter of "when" and not "if" it will cause a problem. I don't see this one narly as much as I did in the mid-70s until the early 80s....mostly with Series 70 Colts and cheap knock-offs, like Thompson Auto Ordnance pistols.

Most early releases cause stovepipes which I'm very familar with.

If you're referring to live round stovepipes...technically, that's known as "Bolt-Over Base" misfeed...which occurs when the slide rides over the rim and catches the case in the extractor groove instead of at the rear. Butt-end goes down...nose points up...and the cartridge does a pretty good impression of the "Brooklyn Salute" for all to see.

If the slide rides over the case and gets past the extractor groove...the term is "Rideover Failure to Feed." A more severe version, but not as dangerous as the first one. In the first...If the case gets hit hard in the web area, the primer can detonate...and you've got a minuature fragmentation device popping about 18 inches from the end of your nose. Saw it happen once. Bad JuJu. Warned the guy about it. He didn't listen. He got lucky. Shooting glasses saved his eyes.

In both malfunctions...either the slide is flat outrunning the magazine, or the gun is short-cycling.
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I ordered and received a couple of Pearce grip extensions last week and tried them out today. They definitely help (me) when shooting with a 5-round magazine. I'll have to see how they work for CC. I shot another 50 rounds with the XD-S so the round count is up to 150 without a problem. I shot Remington 185gr Golden Saber BJHP and at 33 yards it shoots very close to POA. I do all my pistol shooting off the rear deck at a steel popper set 33 yards from the center of the deck and I have to concentrate more with the XD-S compared to my 1911s. The short sight radius and trigger are a challenge. I tried both back straps and prefer the larger of the two. Here's what I've shot so far without any problems.

Remington UMC 230gr MC
Rem UMC 230gr JHP
Rem Golden Saber 185gr BJHP
 
I have been "studying" the ftrtb (failure to return to battery) with a round in the chamber and mag inserted. It seems to me the extractor is "too tight" or the breach face is too square, or both.

If I have the slide locked back and drop a round into the chamber and release the slide (about 3/4 from the rear, have not tried releasing the slide with the slide release in this test) the extractor will not engage the rim and go into battery.

Shouldn't the extractor ride over the rim and engage it? Or is it normal for some guns to only feed a round "under" the extractor by way of the magazine?

All my other autos will load a single round by dropping one into the chamber and closing the slide/bolt.

Thanks for your replies.
 
Handguns aren't designed to feed the way you describe. Many rifle designs are made to "push feed" but handguns are designed for the rim of the cartridge to slide up the breech face and slide underneath the extractor, called "controlled feed".

If you force the extractor too "snap over" the rim of the cartridge by dropping a cartridge into the chamber and then releasing the slide you'll most likely damage the extractor. Lets hope you haven't already damaged your extractor.

Also handgun feeding can't be correctly diagnosed by hand feeding, correct feed analysis only works during live fire.
 
Thanks again woodwrkr, you saying "controlled feed" makes sense - it is funny how a phrase makes things clear.

I closed the slide gently (I have always babied my guns - this does not mean limp wristing :) ) and do not think I did any damage, (visually inspected).

It is killing me not having enough confidence in the gun to carry it yet. I'm waiting on the mag springs and am planning to go to the range later today lubed up per SA directions.
 
:)I bought a XDs 45 a week ago and have put 600 rd thru it. 1st 100rds I had 2 rds
that would not chamber (outlaw ammo) I found it was bad ammo..not one problem using my reloads. I bought a Beretta nano 9mm back in Jan. I had nothing with problems with it went back to factory 3 times.
I can't say enough about how much I love the Springfield. I alway wanted a .45 and the fact that this is now my carry gun makes be smile each time I touch it. From what I hear and see on you tube and my experience I would say you can't go wrong with A Springfield XDs 9mm or .45http://images.thehighroad.org/smilies/smile.gif
 
Interesting bit about the mag springs.

I rented one of these, in the hopes that it would be a good carry gun.

I declined to purchase it when I found that the brass from the last round in the mag would consistently pelt me in or around the right eye. :what: , which is not a feature one wants in one's carry gun. :cuss:

I image that right handed shooters would encounter this a lot less, and now I have to wonder how it would work out with new mag springs.

Thing is, I'm not terribly interested in betting $600 on the possibility it might work out.
 
I've never had any problems with my XDS9. The mag springs do seem a little stout when trying to get that 7th round in them so maybe they just need to break in a little. The mag and the follower seem to be very well built IMO.
 
My XDs had FTF problems I sent it back to Springfield and got it back with a note saying extractor adjusted. I took it back out and the problems got worse: FTF, stovepipes, failure to got to battery. I returned it to Springfield they claimed it functioned perfectly. It now has a new home WITH AN OWNER WHO IS AWARE OF IT'S HISTORY. I would not sell a pistol with a history without disclosure. I believe that a small number of XDs have issues but the majority of them function well. That said I am going back to Glock. My 19,23,26,27 all have 100's of rounds through them with no problems. Glocks in my experience always go bang.
 
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