FN Hi Power trigger creep

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Torian

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I have an authentic FN Hi Power (pictured below) that I use for my daily carry. I bought this firearm back in early 2000, and it hasn't had a single malfunction at the range since then. I have one gripe however: a horrible trigger pull. Specifically, the trigger has no resistance to a point, then a tremendous amount of trigger creep. I'm ending up being a lousy shot with the Hi Power, but I can hollow out the bullseye with my EAA Witness Elite Match in 10mm.

I'm considering taking it to a local gunsmith I know to see what he can do, but I wanted to see if there are any other Hi Power users with similar issues. I've heard about modifications that include tinkering with the mag release, but I would like to substantiate these "rumors".

Thanks.

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tinkering with the mag release
It has nothing to do with the mag release.

It has all to do with the Magazine Safety that prevents the gun firing unless it has a magazine in it.

Google Browning High-Power trigger job for more then you need to know, unless you are a gunsmith already.

rc
 
I'll check it out, thanks! I just noticed your post count...good lord.
 
About 50% of the time, removal of the magazine disconnector will result in a noticeable improvement in the trigger pull and some reduction in creep. That creep is the result of the mag disconnector slipping on the front of the magazine as you pull the trigger. However, on some guns, the effect is not that noticeable. The mag disconnector is held in place by the tiny pin that you see in the trigger body just behind the face of the trigger. One additional plus is that the magazines will now drop free of their own weight since the mag disconnector is no longer spring loaded against the mag body..
There will always be more take up in the high Power than say a 1911 style pistol due to the design of the linkage in the fire controls (part of it is located in the slide). It can be tuned by a knowledgeable smith with High Power experience and may require refitting or replacement of some parts.
 
I just noticed your post count...good lord.
A little known THR secret.
You get double frequent flyer posts after 10,000. :D

No, I lied!

rc
 
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Rcmodel and BBBBill, thanks for the helpful advice. I just finished watching a few videos on removing the magazine disconnect.

It seems that for the people that try to do it on their own, probably half end up going well, and the other half do not. Based on this, and how much I love this weapon, I will take it to a qualified gunsmith instead of tinkering with it myself. I'll let you know how it turns out.
 
A quick and dirty check on the mag safety is to put some grease on the front of the magazine where the mag safety plunger rubs. If that improves the trigger pull, then try polishing the same area of the magazine, and the plunger itself. (You don't need to remove the trigger and mag safety; you can use some emery paper on a thick stick or your finger to polish that plunger.) If the pull is still no good you can remove the magazine safety altogether.

(I feel I have to say that some respected authorities recommend never removing any safety device on a firearm, especially a defense firearm. The reason given is that if the gun is used in an SD shooting, a lawyer in a civil case could use removal of the safety (even if it had no bearing on the situation) as showing "reckless disregard" for safety.)

Jim
 
A quick and dirty check on the mag safety is to put some grease on the front of the magazine where the mag safety plunger rubs. If that improves the trigger pull, then try polishing the same area of the magazine, and the plunger itself. (You don't need to remove the trigger and mag safety; you can use some emery paper on a thick stick or your finger to polish that plunger.) If the pull is still no good you can remove the magazine safety altogether.

(I feel I have to say that some respected authorities recommend never removing any safety device on a firearm, especially a defense firearm. The reason given is that if the gun is used in an SD shooting, a lawyer in a civil case could use removal of the safety (even if it had no bearing on the situation) as showing "reckless disregard" for safety.)

Jim
True. I probably shouldn't be using that "Law Enforcement Only" ammo either though if that's the case:)

I will talk to the gunsmith tomorrow and get his opinion. I'm a horrible shot with it right now, and I feel compelled to get this fixed.
 
Some folks jump on my case for saying things like that, contending that it doesn't matter, won't happen, and no one cares anyway. Still, I keep saying it; if it keeps one person out of trouble, I feel my effort is worth it.

Jim
 
My bet is, you couldn't find an average lawyer in an average prosecutors office, or an average policeman under the age of 60 something that would even know a Browning P-35 ever had a magazine safety.

And which models & years might not have??
(Trick question!)

rc
 
Isn't it also called a "safety" because it prevents the gun from firing if there isn't a mag?
 
The original nomenclature for the part was magazine disconnector. Over the years someone somewhere slipped in the word safety in lieu of disconnector. We can debate the correct terminology till the cows come home. :) Bottom line for me - the gun better work with or without a magazine if I'm using it as a self defense gun. If I want it on safe, I will apply the thumb safety.

Your gun, your choice.
 
My bet is, you couldn't find an average lawyer in an average prosecutors office, or an average policeman under the age of 60 something that would even know a Browning P-35 ever had a magazine safety.
Massad Ayoob often cites a specific case where a prosecutor used the removal of a safety mechanism on a gun that wasn't even involved in the shooting at issue to show a supposed reckless disregard. I wouldn't count on the ignorance of others to save me; that's trusting too much to chance.
 
Massad Ayoob often cites a specific case where a prosecutor used the removal of a safety mechanism on a gun that wasn't even involved in the shooting at issue to show a supposed reckless disregard. I wouldn't count on the ignorance of others to save me; that's trusting too much to chance.
In that case, I'm curious if the defense brought in an expert witness to refute the testimony?

In a lot of cases he's cited over the years, I notice the reoccurring theme to be that the defense failed to do the above.
 
"Massad Ayoob often cites a specific case where a prosecutor used the removal of a safety mechanism on a gun that wasn't even involved in the shooting at issue to show a supposed reckless disregard."

Prefer to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 !
 
Update: well I went to my usual gunsmith today (works out of a local gunshop), and he told me he wasn't allowed (by the owner) to remove such components out of the weapon.

He did give me the name of a gunsmith that will do it however. The issue seem to be an individual in the past who complained and threatened to sue when they later had problems with their firearms, sent it in to the manufacturer, who told them they voided the warranty on their weapon when they removed such components.

Apparently it didn't occur to them to reinstall the part before sending it back to the manufacturer.

h1318C5A7.jpg
 
"My bet is, you couldn't find an average lawyer in an average prosecutors office, or an average policeman under the age of 60 something that would even know a Browning P-35 ever had a magazine safety."

Believe me, average prosecutors and attorneys may not know much, if anything, about guns, but they can hire a lot of expertise. Private (civil) attorneys have lists of experts on all subjects, and public prosecutors have the resources of the police, the FBI and BATFE to call on.

Jim
 
Torian, if it makes you feel any better, I've wanted to love the hi-power for years, but I just can't shoot the thing worth beans. I do great with an elite match, but with the browning, not so much. I think maybe it's the small grip size. I know large part of it is that I am just a terrible shot.

I know that doesn't help you with the mag disconnect, but maybe it will at least let you know you're not alone :)
 
Don't throw rocks at HP's. With proper trigger tuning they can shoot as well as any 9mm. The magazine disconnect can be left in if you polish the front of the magazine where it rubs. The sear is the biggest problem. Don't mess with it yourself unless you are a skilled HP smith, a little honing goes a long way on a HP. Cylinder and Slide has a tuned sear that should help. I have not used one but have seen good reports. All of my HP's have 4# triggers, any less is not easily achieved, at least for me.
 
Kurt Wickmann who used to be "The" HP smith at Novak did a couple HP's for me.

He clipped a couple of coils off the mag disconnect spring, vertically serrated the face of the mag disconnect pad and polished the face of the pad.

With the reduced surface area of the pad and reduced tension of the spring, I got a nice trigger.

One of the HP's I went in and clipped a couple more coils rendering the mag disconnect inactive.

In both cases the parts were still all there.
 
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