What good would it do to boycott and shut down all pro 2A companies in Il? All you would be doing is helping the Antis get stronger in the state. I am an American first and foremost. I want to see all 50 states do whats right. If Il. becomes completely free of gun related business what chance do you every think they will have of improving?
Are we a Vindictive Bunch?
- Thread starter fanchisimo
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Cryogaijin
Member
Vindictive and often foolish, yes.
By running a company that is rkba affiliated in anti areas you show that perhaps the economic impact of having useful, legal, productive companies is greater than the gun issue.
When the whole sandyhook thing spun up here in the Portland Area, I wrote my congress critter and pointed out that Beaverton has been the home of Leupold, THE premier american firearms optics company. Alienating them is a bad Idea. I also pointed out that there are several other companies in the area that deal in firearms and accessories, and alienating those companies in a weak economy may not be the best idea ever.
By running a company that is rkba affiliated in anti areas you show that perhaps the economic impact of having useful, legal, productive companies is greater than the gun issue.
When the whole sandyhook thing spun up here in the Portland Area, I wrote my congress critter and pointed out that Beaverton has been the home of Leupold, THE premier american firearms optics company. Alienating them is a bad Idea. I also pointed out that there are several other companies in the area that deal in firearms and accessories, and alienating those companies in a weak economy may not be the best idea ever.
Impureclient
Member
Recently a poll came out saying 65% of Americans see the 2nd Amendment as protection from tyranny. There are then 35% who don't agree with that. It will never be 100% that are pro 2nd.
It's only wishful thinking to believe we can change the way that minority thinks. Besides, majority rules is no way to live. That is why we have State lines that create a divide in rules. Which
is why some States are and will be lost and some are "safe" zones. Illinois will never cross that line into our safe zone.
Sorry but the way I see it, we are headed towards a great divide again. You can see it in the opinions coming from each side online, they are very divided in their thinking. It's true not everybody
falls into only two categories but it is getting close to it. One one side is mostly Christian, pro-2nd, anti-abortion conservatives and the other is anti-religious, anti-gun, pro-abortion, liberals.
This Presidency has done more than ever to divide it's people. Every day the lines are more and more clear. If there ever is a civil war again, those will be the dividing factors more than likely.
Some places are better left alone than to try and fix how they are governed by their representatives that their population has chosen. It may seem selfish but when places like Texas are bending
over backwards to try and bring that business that anti States are pushing out, I say scr*w them. You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but
you can't please all of the people all of the time. If Optics Planet wants my business then they better move their business to to a place that better represents what they believe.
Believing that supporting a business that runs in a Constitutionally backwards thinking State like Illinois is just living in the moment. In the long term, Illinois will always be against our way of life and
any advances obtained there are likely temporary.
It's only wishful thinking to believe we can change the way that minority thinks. Besides, majority rules is no way to live. That is why we have State lines that create a divide in rules. Which
is why some States are and will be lost and some are "safe" zones. Illinois will never cross that line into our safe zone.
Sorry but the way I see it, we are headed towards a great divide again. You can see it in the opinions coming from each side online, they are very divided in their thinking. It's true not everybody
falls into only two categories but it is getting close to it. One one side is mostly Christian, pro-2nd, anti-abortion conservatives and the other is anti-religious, anti-gun, pro-abortion, liberals.
This Presidency has done more than ever to divide it's people. Every day the lines are more and more clear. If there ever is a civil war again, those will be the dividing factors more than likely.
Some places are better left alone than to try and fix how they are governed by their representatives that their population has chosen. It may seem selfish but when places like Texas are bending
over backwards to try and bring that business that anti States are pushing out, I say scr*w them. You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but
you can't please all of the people all of the time. If Optics Planet wants my business then they better move their business to to a place that better represents what they believe.
Believing that supporting a business that runs in a Constitutionally backwards thinking State like Illinois is just living in the moment. In the long term, Illinois will always be against our way of life and
any advances obtained there are likely temporary.
Bobson
Member
Agreed, except for the "sorry" you started this paragraph with. Sorry? I'm sorry that America isn't what it used to be and never will live up to its awesome potential. I'm sorry that people still die from starvation, while Americans walk around consuming 4,000 calories per day and call it an illness. I'm sorry that more babies are killed every year in America than adults are murdered worldwide. I'm not sorry for anything in the paragraph I quoted.
Let me be gladly divided from the liberal American, the same way we're divided from the political policies of Canada and Mexico. That would be the best thing for this country, and the worst thing for our other half. They just don't know it yet. Let the United States continue to be united, while the divided states go their own way. It ought to be done sooner, and peacefully, than any other way. Only a madman could disagree with that.
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22-rimfire
Member
Well gee, thanks for the political rant. Places like TX are catering to manufacturing or very large distribution business (like Amazon). I see little correlation between Optics Planet being in North Brook IL (suburb of Chicago) and the local politics.
First I posted this after only reading the OP. I did not read any responses.
I thing the target customer base for the firearms industry are the most vindictive group of consumers in the marketplace. Some of it I can understand. Some of it is just completely off the wall. I am certainly not trying to turn this into another pricing thread, but the response, or lack therof, by the big box retailers to such a drastic change in consumer demand is evidence that we are completely out of the ordinary. If there was suddenly a huge demand for, say, motor boats, you better believe Bass Pro Shops would have raised their price as fast as they could. But none of the top sellers have on ammo and most firearms when every concievable metric says they should other than negative customer reaction. They are scared. So instead they try to manage a quota system and shift a bunch of blame to the resellers who they in fact create.
I thing the target customer base for the firearms industry are the most vindictive group of consumers in the marketplace. Some of it I can understand. Some of it is just completely off the wall. I am certainly not trying to turn this into another pricing thread, but the response, or lack therof, by the big box retailers to such a drastic change in consumer demand is evidence that we are completely out of the ordinary. If there was suddenly a huge demand for, say, motor boats, you better believe Bass Pro Shops would have raised their price as fast as they could. But none of the top sellers have on ammo and most firearms when every concievable metric says they should other than negative customer reaction. They are scared. So instead they try to manage a quota system and shift a bunch of blame to the resellers who they in fact create.
silicosys4
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IMO, Pro-gun people can fall into the trap of knee-jerk, feel good, "make 'em pay" emotional responses as easily as anti-gun people can.
I second the thought that supporting the troops who are behind enemy lines is a good idea.
I second the thought that supporting the troops who are behind enemy lines is a good idea.
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Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Sure. You want to punish good, pro-gun people because of where they live. Since when is that a good reason?
MattShlock
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We are not vindictive enough. We are too nice. The Japanese have an old saying which is something like "when you hate the priest you even hate his clothes."
EMBRACE it!.
EMBRACE it!.
22-rimfire
Member
America is a diverse place with many kinds of people and it is very difficult to be vindictive in terms of a far ranging boycott or something similar. Optics Planet does not deserve this for just being located in North Brook IL.
I'm afraid you'll have to explain the Japanese saying a bit more so I can understand it.
I'm afraid you'll have to explain the Japanese saying a bit more so I can understand it.
Archaic
Member
So essentially, a small business that is holding out against the encroaching tide of opposition in IL should be punished because of geography? Asinine, utterly idiotic.
We should be doing everything in our power to try and subsidize ever RTKBA business we can in Chicago, NYC, SanFran, DC, etc. - we who live in TX or AL have no idea how hard they are fighting for what we take for granted.
Cannot believe we are even having this conversation. People in IL just got CCW because they fought their asses off for it, lets support them not boycott them.
We should be doing everything in our power to try and subsidize ever RTKBA business we can in Chicago, NYC, SanFran, DC, etc. - we who live in TX or AL have no idea how hard they are fighting for what we take for granted.
Cannot believe we are even having this conversation. People in IL just got CCW because they fought their asses off for it, lets support them not boycott them.
Onward Allusion
Member
Y'all know that because it is an Internet transaction, the State of ILL doesn't see a dime of sales tax revenue, right? OpticsPlanet is a good company with decent customer service, unlike those price gouging dirtbags at CTD.
Going by the logic of not giving money to companies located in anti states, we shouldn't be buying XD's.
Going by the logic of not giving money to companies located in anti states, we shouldn't be buying XD's.
X-JaVeN-X
Member
Honestly...it doesn't matter what we think...If you think you should "vote with your wallet" in this case, then by all means do so.
I know I have places that I won't spend a dime with. I also have places that I will go out of my way to support even when they aren't the "best deal".
I know I have places that I won't spend a dime with. I also have places that I will go out of my way to support even when they aren't the "best deal".
clutch
Contributing Member
I still buy from Optics Planet, Rock River Arms, and Springfield Armory to name a few. Yup, all in Illinois.
It is tough enough to run a business w/o catching grief for founding a company where you live.
It is tough enough to run a business w/o catching grief for founding a company where you live.
monotonous_iterancy
Member
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- 915
I'm actually glad that big chains like Wal-Mart didn't raise prices. I feel like they're one of the only things keeping us from a permanent upward rise in ammo prices.
if they took that poll of gun owners I bet only 30% would the 2nd is to protect against tyranny from govt and this site is a perfect example. most gun owners judging by gun sites I have been on worship police and govt. a lot of guys just think the 2nd is just to carry some guys think target shooting some reloading and hunting some think extensive background checks are part of the 2nd. I am glad to see that the support was that high and I bet most were not gun owners
Queen_of_Thunder
member
It all boils down to this. Its your money therfore its your choice as to were you want to spend it.
And why do we want to include them in the decision making processes for the rest of the country? Why do we allow people in states that don't share our values in any way to have input on how we live our lives?
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Because they are American citizens. The states such as IL are part of America and have representatives in Congress.
Nice ad hominem logic fallacy. Overlooking that fallacy, another major problem with your concept is that once you separate all the liberal states out from the "united" states you will then find that amongst the "united" states that there are other issues by which the union should further be divided. Pretty soon you realize that there are few folks that share all of your same views how you want them to be viewed.
fanchisimo
Member
There are more taxes than just sales tax. They pay property tax, income tax, sales tax (from in-state purchases), and I'm sure many others, all to Illinois and Cook county. While the owners are probably Pro-2A, do they actively do anything to promote the RKBA or are they just a business for firearm accessories? I really don't know, someone else might. I know Midway has their NRA round up fund so I know they are active contributors and just recently donated a million to the NRA. They will have my business even if they aren't the best price, unless they are out and the wait time is long.
Another thought I would give is if the business is in a battleground state such as Colorado currently is. Illinois is a rock solid fortress of anti-gun so our dollars and effort would better be spend elsewhere. Take the CCW situation for example. They were the last holdout and it was only through a court order they did. I'm not saying that Illinois is a lost cause, it just shouldn't be the first priority. Work on the small targets so you can take out the legs of the large target they're guarding.
Another thought I would give is if the business is in a battleground state such as Colorado currently is. Illinois is a rock solid fortress of anti-gun so our dollars and effort would better be spend elsewhere. Take the CCW situation for example. They were the last holdout and it was only through a court order they did. I'm not saying that Illinois is a lost cause, it just shouldn't be the first priority. Work on the small targets so you can take out the legs of the large target they're guarding.
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I fall into the camp of supporting the pro-gun folks wherever they are doing business.
Say folks boycott the few pro-gun businesses in anti-areas, causing them to shut down... That just drives them out of the area, making the area even more solidly anti-gun, and probably consolidating the pro-gun shops in fewer & fewer locales.
Once that occurs, it could then become much easier for the anti-gun folks to get federal laws enacted because all the pro-gun folks/businesses are clustered in just a few states. Very bad, IMO.
So I feel it is better to support pro-gun businesses wherever they may be.
Say folks boycott the few pro-gun businesses in anti-areas, causing them to shut down... That just drives them out of the area, making the area even more solidly anti-gun, and probably consolidating the pro-gun shops in fewer & fewer locales.
Once that occurs, it could then become much easier for the anti-gun folks to get federal laws enacted because all the pro-gun folks/businesses are clustered in just a few states. Very bad, IMO.
So I feel it is better to support pro-gun businesses wherever they may be.
oneounceload
member
Remember that many companies have been in certain locations before things went haywire - all of the gun companies still in the NE US are a perfect example. Most simply cannot afford to just pack up and move, lose a lot of talented employees, yadda, yadda,.......
Bobson
Member
My use of the phrase, "only a madman could disagree" doesn't make my argument ad hominem, which isn't a type of logical fallacy anyway. If you think war and violence are the best way to solve problems, go ahead and say so instead of trying to discredit my argument on a scholarly level. Those are the only two things I was advocating against. Help me understand your bloodlust.
This isn't a problem with my concept, its a problem with your concept that you formed by exaggerating mine.
I've purchased from Optics Planet before and received good service and pretty good shipping. That said I for one WILL NOT spend any more of my money into a State as corrupt as Illinois. Their values aren't my values. My dollars will not go to fund a corrupt State govt., directly or indirectly.
beatledog7
Member
Yes they will. Perhaps not on purpose, and perhaps not to Illinois. But since governments by their very nature are susceptible to corruption, there is little doubt that some portion of your money is funding it in some way.
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