a Letter im sending to the Sturm Ruger & Co

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willyjixx

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To whom it may Concern: 28 Monday 2004


I purchased a Ruger Mini 14 Ranch Rifle on 17 October 2001. This letter being written to you is to tell you of my displeasure and aggravation I have gone through from purchasing this rifle. My intent is to make clear about what I am displeased about and why I will never purchase or recommend a Ruger product to anyone.

The 1st incident happened while attempting to zero the rifle. After hearing the reviews of the Mini 14 I thought it would be a good rifle to have since I am an avid shooter. I was wrong. While attempting to zero the rifle the recoil of the weapon loosened the rear sight windage lock screw (PN MS05710). As this happened the rear slight slid in its dovetail to the left. Imagine my surprise when my zero was slowly shifting left. When I realized what had happened I attempted to tighten down the windage lock. To my dismay the little screw stripped in the head. Well at least it held and I finished my zeroing.
Another annoyance is the distance the Mini 14 shucks its expended brass. All fine and dandy if you don’t want to pick it up or ever find it again. However it is not the most favorite rifle on public ranges. Who enjoys brass flying past them half the speed of the bullet it just expelled?

The 2nd incident. The factory magazines. The 5 round magazines are fine for zeroing. Fine for hunting. For heaven sakes who would want to go plinking an only load in 5 rounds at a time? I take my bolt action when I want to do that! Here the problem seems to be Ruger's politics. Apparently a normal citizen such as myself is not to be trusted with more than 5 rounds as it seems of Ruger's bowing to the wishes of an impeached president.
And for the magazines that are out there. Well if I buy 5 twenty round capacity Ruger Magazines I have invested the amount of what I paid for my rifle. Far from worth it in my eyes when an AR15 surplus magazine runs in the 10-20 dollar range. That is the reason I bought the Mini 14. For the economical price for a supposedly good quality rifle. To bad the price of the accessories require deep pockets, almost more than the rifle is worth. I did purchase an aftermarket 10 rounder and a couple of 20 round magazines. My opinions were what a waste of time. While the 10 round magazine would feed fine it would not lock the bolt to the rear. I got over that. The 20 round magazines failed to load the last round and have given me many misfires and loading problems. In the trash they went.

The 3rd and last incident. Not very impressed with the rear site of the ranch rifle I found a Williams rear site (PN WGRS Mini 14/30). I was very pleased with it. I liked the bigger peep the graduated ramp. Why I could go on for a while why I like it! Except for one reason. I lost it. Once again the rear sight windage lock screw was the culprit. As the old one had stripped I purchased new one. I carefully installed my site and lock screw and tightened it down to a snug fitting. I really liked that sight. The rifle zeroed wonderfully after this. I will never have that problem again. On the way home from the range and to the table for an after actions cleaning my Williams sight was gone. The culprit was a loose windage lock screw. I hung the rifle in the closet and vowed to sell it. For the record the Williams site was $39.95 minus NV State sales tax of 7.37%. I doubt Ruger will reimburse me for the loss of the sight due to there rifles inferior quality.

Now this last one I cannot blame on you. It just goes to show the run of bad luck I have had since purchasing the Mini 14. I have never really liked the front blade ramp. Especially after I put on the Williams site, so I ordered a Choate Machine & Tool Cage Flash Suppressor (PN 07-07-13). I really thought that M1 Carbine style dog ears and post would go well with the Williams sight as well as add a neat feature to my Mini 14. Sadly after anxiously awaiting for the mail I received my package. Choate while overcharging me for the shipping had billed me for a Mini 14 Cage Flash Suppressor in Stainless Steal ($47.60), the color of my rifle. What was in my package was a blued suppressor. A common mix up yes but after the aggravation of the rear sight incident this was the final straw. The proverbial camels back is broken. A call will be made to Choate tomorrow requesting a full refund. I no longer need the part as I will soon no longer have a Mini 14.

Being that I am Member of the US Army I will sell my Ruger Mini 14 to whatever poor soul will have it an take the loss (there will be no profit with this rifle) and I will purchase an AR 15. After shooting the M-16 for the past 8 years I feel it is well worth the money for the civilian version. I wish I would have done this before instead of going for a better price. A life lesson is learned here and I will not ever again purchase or recommend to anyone any Ruger products. I hope you can understand my displeasure.

Disappointed and Angry

Donald W Fleming
Po Box, 446
Sparks, NV 89432




once again this pile of puke weapon has pist me off for the last time
 
Don,
I'm sorry you're not happy with your rifle, but I have a couple of issues:
1. Why buy a Ranch rifle, if you were going to use the rear sight???
That rifle is designed for a scope.
If you wanted to use the rear sight, the standard Ruger has a much better rear sight.
2. Why dis on Ruger because after market mags are crap? I wish they made hi-caps, but that hasn't been an issue for 10 years. After the ban expires that may change, but surely you knew this when you bought the gun.
Quality after market mags are available, and are not any more expensive than quality AR mags.
3. Ruger would have sent you a new screw, free of charge if you had given them a chance.

If you want an AR, buy one, but Ruger makes fine firearms, and they stand behind them.
 
The reason I never bought a Ruger Mini 14 is because of the price of decent magazines. And the fact that a lot of them start opening up their groups terribly when they get a little hot.
 
Dear Don, nothing personal, Ruger could care less. Your letter may not even get read past the first paragraph. They are a typical American large company that could care less about you if they are selling enough rifles to meet their projections. I have delt with them. I have never met a bigger bunch of careless idiots in my life.

You don't matter. They will continue to sell rifles. Your input is not new information to them. They could care less about making a better product because they are selling rifles.

If they cared, they would have improved this rifle long ago.
 
Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience with your Mini! I just picked one up a month ago and I am completely satisfied with it. It will give me 2-3" groups at 100 yards with the factory sights and at this point, I have tried 4 different brands of ammo and all have fed with no problems.

One thing I have always done with a new gun is to carefully clean and inspect everything before the first range outing. I pay close attention to the various screws to insure nothing comes loose. I have had similar problems with attaching screws and I have found that a lot of the screws have some sort of oil or grease on the threads when I remove them. This will not help in keeping the screws tight. I clean the screw threads and the threads in the holes with something like Gun Scrubber or non-chorinated brake parts cleaner.

Then I reassemble using a tiny amount of BLUE-colored loctite on the screw threads. This will keep the screws in place and also allow easy removal when necessary.

The Mini is great for the "20-30 foot casing toss event" :D but I usually try to pick a spot at the very right side of the shooting line when possible. There are replacement gas ports available to substantially reduce the flight of spent casings. Contact Mike Knifong at [email protected] in Beaverton, OR for information on his gas port kit. he also offers a trigger job that will give a very nice 3-pound pull that is very smooth.

Ruger has not offered anything but a 5-round mag for quite awhile. There are a lot of pre-ban Ruger mags available and are certainly worth the money if you want to shoot a lot without swapping mags. Unfortunately, some aftermarket mags do not seem to work as well as the Ruger mags.

The rear sight on the Ranch may not be the best in the world, but you said you did get a Williams sight and that is on my list too. I will probably add a scope later on as well as a bipod to go with my Masen muzzle brake. The Choate brake was more than I wanted to spend and the fact that you had an issue with them (IMHO) should not have been a part of your letter to Ruger.

You stated that the rifle zeroed "wonderfully" with the Williams sight installed. I think if you had known about using some blue threadlocker, you would have never lost the sight and you would be still shooting your Mini. It is a nice rifle and I have found it to be a lot of fun to shoot.

Finally, as others have mentioned, Ruger would have sent you a new hold-down screw for the rear sight just for asking. Ruger Customer Service is far and away better than any other gun manufacturer and they would have done what was necesary to insure your rifle performed as intended.

Hope you will reconsider after reading some of the replies. Just give your Mini a chance to prove itself!! :)
 
i know.

but for what its worth the 5 minutes to post it on the internet might reach one person so they wont buy from them.

that an i addressed the letter to the President.


Mini 14 jack. when i first bought the rifle i planned on putting a scope on it. i realized that was a waste of time an put a better scope on my 6mm. the William site was really a great replacement. the little 5cent screw wasnt that bad. the crappy thing is that the dang screw did the same thing twice.

an if you like em so much i have one for sale:D

as far as Ruger an the crap aftermarket mags. if they gave the public what we wanted then we woundt have to put in aftermarket crap.


an i have yet to find a Ruger magazine worth a crap for less than 10-20 that an AR mag cost. please let me know your source
 
You realize---at this moment in time----if Ruger were to gear up to offer different mags---all you could have would be 10-rounders------maybe after the sunset you could get bigger ones.

The reason AR mags are so cheap is that MILLIONS were produced BEFORE the ban. This is something Ruger has no control over---blame your congressmen and Komrade Klinton.

The crap sight on the Ranch model is meant to be a back-up to a scope---NOT the main sight.

Seems you would like a regular Mini instead of the Ranch model.

You want to save brass??? Get a bolt action--sheeesh. An autoloader spittin brass out???----its what they do---the nature of the beast--so to speak. Imagine that.

These are non-issues---you would have a legitimate complaint if it was unreliable or grossly inaccurate----which I didn't see either complaint.




PS---This is coming from somebody who will NEVER own another Ruger rifle or shotgun-----the only things they produce that is worthy of consideration anymore are handguns.
 
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So you stripped out the screw and probably the threads in the hole for it and that's Ruger's fault?:rolleyes:


The AWB has restricted the manufacture and sale of both factory and aftermarket high capacity magazines since 1994 and that's Ruger's fault?:rolleyes:

OoooK:rolleyes:
 
Despite my contempt for their useless customer service, I love my Mini-14. Cut the barrel back to 16" and you will have a 2-3 MOA gun with no POI drift as the barrel heats up. Buy some PMI mags and you have a gun that will never fail to go bang.

The two Minis I have have NEVER malfunctioned in thousands of rounds of Wolf Ammo. That is more than I can say for the ARs I used to own.
 
For What it is Worth.

when i run the 5 round magazines it runs great. i dont have a reliabilty problem with the stock stuff

i dont need the trigger modified. it shoots great. i have no problems there. i just didnt like the Ranch style site. yes i should have bought a standard Mini 14 rifle.

i have considered the gas bushing kit.
why bother dumping more money into it to make it something its not though
 
You bought a rifle from a company that sold us out, and is proud of that, and you don't like the rifle.


Oh, dear. :rolleyes:
 
The AWB has restricted the manufacture and sale of both factory and aftermarket high capacity magazines since 1994 and that's Ruger's fault?
Click to expand...

Yes and no.

Yes, because Bill Ruger campaigned for the magazine restriction and assault weapons ban. That's a matter of record.

No, because Ruger was refusing to sell high caps to civilians long before the ban, arguing that such magazines should properly only go to gov't agents. That's also a matter of record.

The fact is that Ruger has treated us as shabbily as S&W ever did, yet never suffered for it.
 
I sent a similar one a few months back, but to their director of marketing, Chris Killoy:

Hello sir --

I recently read that you were appointed last December as the Executive Director of Sales and Marketing for Ruger Firearms. It is with great regret then that I tell you I've had to on more than one occasion turn interested parties away from your Mini-14 rifle. I don't like doing this, because your company has produced some true classics, and I *like* being able to recommend your products.

But I can't do that with the Mini-14 series. In fact, it's become an aphorism in the firearms community that "the two happiest days in the life of a Mini-14 owner is the day he buys it.. and the day he sells it." And I have to admit, that's held true for me as well.

The Mini-14 in concept is an incredible little carbine -- light and handy, fast-pointing, and keeping true to that old familiar M1 action so many Americans have grown to love. It is so darn EASY to fall in love with that little carbine that handles so well and carries so easily.

Which is probably why the dissappointment is so great on getting inside the rifle. The Mini's lack of accuracy is well-repeated to the point of being proverbial. The two-piece gas block and terrible barrel (with a seam on my stainless ranch, no less!!) I'm presuming created most of the problem. The poor finish given to most of the internals doesn't help matters at all, nor do the crude rear sights. Finally, your company's steadfast politically correct stance of refusing to make magazines with greater than five round capacity available to civilians has won you no friends. You never had and never will have the love of the "all guns are bad" soccer mom crowd.. so why alienate your natural allies (AND CUSTOMERS) by refusing to sell even 10 round magazines, to say nothing of the 15- or 30- rounders that recall the Mini's fine ancestry and make it such a fine plinker?

Mr. Killoy -- I have the utmost respect for Ruger, and I honestly want to see you all succeed. To that end, I'd ask the following improvements to the Mini-14 line:

1 -- redesign the gas block to a one-piece, possibly press-fit part. Something that can't shoot lose, and will not be prone to accuracy-robbing vibrations. Perhaps something along the lines of the old M1 carbine?

2 -- replace the barrel. Personally, I prefer the present light weight of the factory barrel -- the rifle's handiness is part of why I like it so much! But there's still no call for the seam in the barrel.

3 -- upgrade the sights. I understand the Ranch model rear sight is reserve only, but something a little better would be nice.

4 -- take a bit more care to the finish of the rifle. As it is, your stainless version looks like it just came out of the mold with casting lines and rough edges everywhere, and the blued version between the dull finish and cheap wood looks like a BB rifle. It doesn't need to be pristine, but a bit more care goes a long way. A "prestige" version with nice wood and higher polish would be nice as well.

5 -- Immediately start shipping the Mini with at least one 10-round magazine, and promise to ship it with 20- or 30- round magazines standard upon expiration of the Clinton gun ban this September. Perhaps even take a page from Armalite's book and include a certificate with current production rifles good for a free 30-rounder come September.


Make those changes, and I promise I will not only start recommending your carbine [...] again, but I'll go buy another myself. I *love* the concept of the Mini, and would jump at the chance to buy one that lived up to its potential.
Click to expand...
 
Great letter, Kaylee.
icon14.gif
 
Blue Locktite is your friend. :) I use it on most of my guns in one way or another.

I like Kaylee's letter. Well reasoned and thought out, and all about things that are in the company's power to change. Working for one of those "big American corporations" that seem to suck so bad, I will bet you that Kaylee's letter will actually get read.

The first letter however I've got to take issue with, I don't think that they will take it serious at all. You do have a couple of very valid points, but they are colored over by stuff that the company is going to shrug off. The crappy screws are a valid point. Blaming them for poor performance in magazines that they didn't build won't get you anywhere, and then all of the stuff about Choate just clouds the issue.

If I were the customer service guy who read that letter I would throw it in the pile with the angry people who probably aren't satisfiable in any way. :)

Just my opinion. I don't even like Ruger products much at all.
 
willey jixx or jinx?

I've got 3 Ruger rifles(1 a Mini-14 Ranch )and quality is top notch on each one of them.IMHO the Ruger outfit is one of the best around to work with for customer service. I think OBG hit the nail on the head- these are non issues.Preventive maintnance is your responsibility and cheap after market hi-caps at the least require work to make them function properly and some of them never will function properly.
When you pickup your AR-15 I hope you will take to heart George S.'s valuable advice.Good stuff in there,George,thanks.
Edit:
:D KayLee , now that's a constructive letter that just may get some attention.
 
While attempting to zero the rifle the recoil of the weapon loosened the rear sight windage lock screw (PN MS05710). When I realized what had happened I attempted to tighten down the windage lock. To my dismay the little screw stripped in the head."

O.K., you had a loose screw and you stripped it. It happens. When you buy a new gun, some of the screws may get loose, that is part of the reason every shooter knows about locktite. This is not a Ruger specific problem by any means. I doubt there is a gun maker out there that some of the screws don't come loose on their guns from time to time. Not really what I would consider a manufacturing defect or even a sign of poor quality.

"Another annoyance is the distance the Mini 14 shucks its expended brass."
A lot of semi-autos throw the brass out there. At least the Ruger is reliable.

"Apparently a normal citizen such as myself is not to be trusted with more than 5 rounds as it seems of Ruger's bowing to the wishes of an impeached president."

First of all, Clinton was never impeached and saying this makes you look stupid. Why do they only sell 5 round mags? I don't know but you have a very valid point and it has bothered me. At least sell the legal limit of 10 rounds. It looks bad as if they think they know what is best for us. I agree 100% on this point.

"The 3rd and last incident. Not very impressed with the rear site of the ranch rifle I found a Williams rear site (PN WGRS Mini 14/30). I was very pleased with it. I liked the bigger peep the graduated ramp. Why I could go on for a while why I like it! Except for one reason. I lost it. Once again the rear sight windage lock screw was the culprit. As the old one had stripped I purchased new one. I carefully installed my site and lock screw and tightened it down to a snug fitting. I really liked that sight. The rifle zeroed wonderfully after this. I will never have that problem again. On the way home from the range and to the table for an after actions cleaning my Williams sight was gone. The culprit was a loose windage lock screw. I hung the rifle in the closet and vowed to sell it. For the record the Williams site was $39.95 minus NV State sales tax of 7.37%. I doubt Ruger will reimburse me for the loss of the sight due to there rifles inferior quality."

How is Ruger to blame for a after market site? Was it a Ruger screw that made you loose the sight? I was unclear on this point.

"Now this last one I cannot blame on you." :D

Ruger is not a bad gun company but they do have their share of lemons. After buying a 10/22, I swore that I would never buy another Ruger product again. I had heard good things about the 10/22 but mine was a total waste of money. It was unreliable with any ammo and any mag and it was not accurate at all. I could get just as good of groups with my MKII standard as my scoped 10/22. The MKII is extremly accurate but it still should not be more accurate than a rifle. After owning several other Ruger products, I have come to the conclusion that they make some good guns and they make some not so good guns. That is life and I don't know of many gun companies that don't make a few bad guns. I wouldn't write off all Ruger products because of one bad experience. Also, IMO the Ruger customer srevice has been fine when I needed it.
 
Sorry to hear about your probs with the mini-14. I've shot a few of them, and was not impressed. But .... I start the bidding at $50 bucks.:D
Kaylee, great letter, these are the kind that get things done. I hope yours does. BTW, wouldn't a mini-1 be fun? pop-pop-pop-pop-pop-pop-pop-pop-ping!:D :D
 
If anyone wants to get a letter to be read at a big company, send it to Investor Relations. They read everything, and if its a real issue, then they gripe about it.

I work for the website of a large telecom, and we periodically get complaints forwarded from Joe Nobodies who sent to IR. Never seen one that came from the CEO, CFO, etc.
 
Little things that cost next to nothing can make a big difference in customer satisfaction. In 22 years of listening to various shooters praise and knock the Mini-14, I've concluded that Ruger jus' don' gitit, and ain't likely to get it any time soon.

For example, a larger screw head, slightly harder steel, and serrations on the bottom engagement surface of the screw can reduce or eliminate the rear sight locking problem cited above. And read the post, our friend stripped the HEAD, not the threads. A certain level of user slippage should be anticipated and engineered against.

The Ranch version uses a fixed ejector to kick the empties out more horizontally, to avoid hanging them up on the scope mount. Why they couldn't fiddle with the bolt and plunger ejector to do the same thing is beyond me. I've never heard of an engineering reason why the fixed ejector was *necessary*. Speculation--it avoids getting parts confused between the two models, and Ruger didn't want to modify all of its Minis to have the lower ejection angle.

The gas block is reputedly a major factor in the hot-barrel group deterioration--perhaps because it stays clamped down on a thin and expanding barrel, making a choke spot? Anyway, what are the low-cost solutions? The M1 Carbine barrel is a machining nightmare compared to the Mini's system, and it has a *potentially* troublesome short-stroke piston that's really, really hard to open up for cleaning. But there's gotta be an affordable solution that jacks the production costs up no more than three bucks!! Maybe a little ring and longitudinal protrusion on the gas block, to mate up with a small annular groove and a slot on the barrel? Then you would not be relying on gorilla torque on the smooth barrel surface to keep the block aligned!! Reasonable torque values!!

Then we could assess Bill Ruger's claim years ago that his Mini's barrels were as accurate as any other makers' barrels.

Oh, and they could stamp little half-minute of angle value grooves on their sight base/sight assembly interface, to increase the friction and make bumping the sights off far less likely. That's gotta be cheap to do! And, the user gets to at least have a chance to roughly count the "not really clicks" to more quickly get zeroed.

BTW, I'll give ya $200 for your Mini. I'm cheap and you're disgusted and I'm ready for a tinkering project anyway.:evil:
 
Albanian, actually President Clinton was impeached. He was never removed from office though. He falls into a very exclusive club.
 
<shrug> the first group I ever fired with a Mini14 put 5 into 1 inch at 100 yards, with my handloads. Ya'll keep picking on them, I will have buy one just to see if I can duplicate the feat:D

There is one easy fix for Minis - get rid of that damn fool plastic buttplate. They're slicker than greased owl poo and it does nothing good to have your rifle butt squirting all over your shoulder during recoil, even if it is only .223 recoil.

And while you're at it, tell Ruger to start putting nice wood on #1's again:D
 
impeach :
v 1: challenge the honesty or credibility of; as of witnesses
2: charge with an offense or misdemeanor; "The public officials
were impeached"
3: charge with a crime or misdemeanor
4: bring an accusation against; level a charge against; "He
charged the man with spousal abuse"

Clinton was impeached. I guess I never really understood the meaning of the word until I looked it up. I realized that I have heard it used before but for some reason, I thought that when a president was impeached, it meant something different. I thought of Nixon and what happened to him AFTER impeachment.


Anyway, I stick by my point that the RUger Mini-14 is a good gun that is made well. It could be much better but so could a lot of guns. I like it and the only reason I sold mine was because I only shoot factory mags and I wasn't going to pay $80-100 for a 20rd factory mag. I won't pay that for any mag. If Ruger shipped them with 10rd mags, that would at least make the gun worth carrying. I don't see the point of a 5 shot semi-auto rifle.:rolleyes: If I wanted 5 shots, I could get any bost action rifle.
 
saving brass...

and while I think of it, if you want to save your brass from the autoloader, just find a cardboard box that is 18"x18" or so, and lay it down on the bench beside the rifle, and weighted down with a sand bag or two - also throw a couple old towels inside. Put it where the ejected brass will enter. The brass will mostly stay where you don't have to hunt it. Way cheaper than a brass catcher thingy.
 
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