Hunting with your Hi Point Carbine

stressed said:

What's the rifle twist rate on a HiPoint? On ballistics by the inch the 9mm +P averages 600 ft lbs out of a carbine barrel. I'm sure a +P+ or handload could rasie the bar another 30-50 ft lbs to 630-650 ft lbs. Hell, one guy on THR said was loading double charges and said his HiPoint ate them up no problem.

FPS: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

Energy: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/megraphs/9mm.html

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I will stand by my earlier comment...... its not the best choice

Do you hunt? Do you hnt medium game like wild boar that can go 300 to 400 plus pounds?

Is a 9mm what you want between you and a charging boar?

Also
Have you seen an animal in pain because someone used a bullet that is too small / slow?

You are quoting muzzle energy as well, which is not a hunting distance...... try 50 to 100 yards or more..........

The 9mm slows way down even at 25 yards


Unless the animals in your woods come up to you, where you can put the gun to their head....... you will not see those energy levels

Its a cool plinking gun........ decent for HD at HD distances

yeah davek I didnt want to be the thread hi-jacker but why would you shoot an Owl to began with?

Any back on topic...
HD and plinking, not hunting. Unless it's your last option and your hungry.

Kill anything that crosses the light? That was a poor attitude towards living creatures. Unfortunately I do come across that attitude in the hunting and shooting community from time to time, but I guess that is for a different discussion/thread.

Hey, we were all young once!

I am very late to this conversation but a hipoint is more than capable of taking all of the above. some states have very strict criteria for centerfire rifles that exclude hipoints but in states that don't(like montana, Idaho, Texas, Virginia ETC) it is completely legal and very capable. people often forget that hipoints come in more than just 9mm. a 45ACP shooting a 230gr bullet out of a carbine is almost the equivalent of a 45 caliber muzzle loader, who here claims those are incapable of killing a deer or hog? it's been done fore centuries and I'm sure Lewis and Clark would be quite amused at what people claim is necessary to kill game nowadays.

tahunua001 said:

I am very late to this conversation but a hipoint is more than capable of taking all of the above. some states have very strict criteria for centerfire rifles that exclude hipoints but in states that don't(like montana, Idaho, Texas, Virginia ETC) it is completely legal and very capable. people often forget that hipoints come in more than just 9mm. a 45ACP shooting a 230gr bullet out of a carbine is almost the equivalent of a 45 caliber muzzle loader, who here claims those are incapable of killing a deer or hog? it's been done fore centuries and I'm sure Lewis and Clark would be quite amused at what people claim is necessary to kill game nowadays.

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I have hunted for many years

No one I know, nor have I ever seen anyone pull out a Hipoint Carbine to go deer or Hog hunting

The words "capable" of killing could fit to many things

A 22LR is "capable" of killing an elk...... if you stand next to them, and shoot them right throught the eye.

That doesnt mean its the best choice.

Of course the Hipoint is capable of killing.......... I agree with you....

But...... for ethical hunting of mid size game.......There are much better choices.....

But....... If thats what you got...... go for it

I have a friend(yes, I personally know him) that takes his deer and black bear every year with his SKS shooting cheap fmj. Another friend that does the same with his 7mm mag, and another that has used his .416 rigby on black bear(he uses .308 for deer). Another that goes for brown bear with both .44mag and .500sw. Then there's my buddy that shot that brown bear twice with his compound bow and then was bit in the butt by the bear. Does it matter? Nope. The only one that has never had to track a bear is the one with the SKS.

Point being, it doesn't matter. Sure, everyone has their own opinion as to what is ethical, but it's just that, your opinion. If it's legal and gets the job done, why not. Maybe they want the challenge just like the handgun hunters...?

Point

just get ya a real hunting rifle. a sensible caliber.

ethical is a very arbitrary concept. your opinion about what an ethical hunter is is very different than what your best friends concept of an ethical hunter or mine or any other person that's ever hunted. I shot a small doe last year that had both legs on one side destroyed by a single glancing shot from a 7-8ish millimeter bullet(by my guestimation). I dropped it cleanly with a single shot from a 243. that shooter, in my opinion was unethical because they took a non broadside/quartering shot and then left a very wounded animal to die.

I have also seen deer that were gut shot with a 300 win mag and then the same shooter calls me unethical for a clean shot to the heart with a 243!

I've also been called unethical for loaning my 30-06 to my little brother so he has something for elk season this year because he needs something good out to and possibly beyond 300 yards.

ethics can not be argued, explained or imposed in a hunting forum because everybody has a different idea of what constitutes and ethical hunter.

now to shift gears from my rant about ethics.
yes, there are many more suited rounds for hog and deer than 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP but if you are disciplined and limit yourself to muzzle loader ranges and take your time to line up a good clean shot then all are more than sufficient.

Chris-bob I would disagre.
I woud say it does matter. We aren't living through the apocalypse, we have options. LOTS of options. 9mm shouldn't be considered an option unless there is an extreme reason and that a person needed to put food on their plate. True we are all free to but doesn't mean we should. If we only have money for one gun and we are planning on hunting buy a gun that can go hunting. Plenty of inexpensive rifles that can be used to plink and hunt deer. Just my opinion of course.

So you are against bow hunting because a rifle is a better choice?

Well actually I'm not a bow hunter. And a bow might be, I wouldn't be an authority since I'm not a bow hunter, a better choice than a 9mm in bow hunting ranges. I was at dicks a couple nights ago killing time and was looking at some of the new arrows and was impressed. Making a 2.5 inch wound channel through lungs and heart I think would be better than a 9 for hunting.

I am dragging this back up to ask a few more questions. I live in southern Michigan and we are not allowed to deer hunt with rifles here. We are allowed to hunt shotguns or straight walled cartridge pistols 35 caliber or larger. They are currently looking to change the law to allow these same straight wall pistol cartridges in rifles.

They have recently done away with the minimum age for children hunters if they are with a Mentor that is 21 years of age. My son is 8 and my daughter is 11 but neither is large enough to fire a 20 gauge shotgun. (That was a lot for me when I started hunting at 14)

I am considering a small rifle chambered for one of these pistol rounds for use at ranges no more than 40 yards from our elevated blind. I have been seeing lever guns, bolt actions and single shots in .357 mad and 44 mag. I have also been looking into a hi-point carbine in 45 ACP. These all seem like effective weapons for close range hunting from a controlled rest in a blind.

Can anyone give me some input?

In my opinion 45 acp is woefully insufficient for deer, I would stick with the rule of thumb of 1000 ft-lbs for deer (1000 ft-lbs at 50 yards in your case). A 44 mag from a 16" barrel should get you close, but I wouldn't push it past 50 yards. That's my two cents worth.

I am considering a small rifle chambered for one of these pistol rounds for use at ranges no more than 40 yards from our elevated blind. I have been seeing lever guns, bolt actions and single shots in .357 mad and 44 mag. I have also been looking into a hi-point carbine in 45 ACP. These all seem like effective weapons for close range hunting from a controlled rest in a blind.

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Given those parameters either of those would work perfectly well. (I'd probably pick the .357, myself. The .44 Mag is going to still produce pretty stout recoil from a light lever gun like a 5-lb Model 92, or an even lighter single-shot.)

The biggest factor is going to be that you must instruct them to be accurate shooters. If they can put every round into a saucer-sized target at 50 yards from their field rest -- and they know exactly what their aiming point is on that live animal -- those rounds will take care of business quite well.

Can't see how a .45 ACP that produces 16"+ of penetration, and we expect to shoot through both sides of a human attacker, won't do the job on a white-tail deer at such small distances.

Bottom line is the 9mm, .40, and .45 all can and do kill game up to deer size under 50 yds. I wonder if all the ethics police on here ever bow hunted. If you are responsible and take shots inside the effective range of the caliber than it is fine.

mboe794 said:

I can get around 600 ft lbs with my 9mm HiPoint.... Just sayin'.

I havent hunted anything with it myself. Although, I have fantisized about it from time to time

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This. I have chronoed some +P+ rounds getting over 700 ft lbs from an 9mm carbine.

If you can use a pistol to take said game, then you can defiantly use a carbine.

I really wish there was a 10mm carbine. Would exceed over 1000ft lbs easily with mild recoil. I've toyed with the idea of converting a .40 one.

MechTech systems makes carbine "uppers" for Glock "lowers," and they make one for 10 mm. I've no experience with it, but there's at least one way to get a reasonably priced 10 mm carbine.

http://www.mechtechsys.com/glock.php

Also, I would never depend on a 45 acp to kill anything human/deer sized. It's a known statistic that eight out nine people whom are shot with handhuns survive. By the time your deer finallly dies of infection it'll be long gone. If I need a weapon that will consistenly drop a 200 pound animal I'll take my 308 Winchester.

One would have to ask, once the bullet has gone in one side and out the other (which a stout .45 ACP certainly will do), what more can one expect it to do? But I'm sure that would be just banging one's head against the wall. So, sure. Get that .308...for the 8 year old boy and 11 year old girl. Why not? I'm sure they need it, and will appreciate your choice.

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8 out of 10 people shot -- somewhere -- survive, considering the fact that that "somewhere" might be just about anywhere (few shots on humans are carefully placed vitals shots from a prepared ambush/hunting situation), and we go to almost any lengths to render heroic medical aid to any human being that's been shot.

You might wonder if you were to shoot a random selection of white-tail deer in the gut, the hams, the leg, etc -- and then have a paramedic arrive a few moments later with Celox and plasma and adrenaline shots, and then rush them to an OR -- how many of them would survive, too?

There are MUCH better options out there for hunting.

That being said, it will work under really ideal conditions. In Ohio you can hunt with a 1911:banghead:

Iirc, a couple of years ago one of our members questioned the use of a Hi Point for hunting deer because he had a kid that had a handicap and was really sensitive to recoil.

That being said, it will work under really ideal conditions. In Ohio you can hunt with a 1911

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If I was in bow range, I'd be much more likely to kill a deer with a 1911 than with a bow.

Everyone is hung up on "best" instead of "good enough".

Are pistol caliber carbines "best" for deer? Maybe not. But since furearl is not allowed to use a rifle in S. Michigan, don't you think it's a little pointless to be talking about how much better the .308 and "-06 are?

How about instead of getting into a urinating contest about our personal preferences, we apply a little logic? If it will reliably put down a human being, it will kill a deer.

I just love it that people will cry and moan about carrying a full size CCW because it's too heavy, too big, whatever, opt for a mousegun, then whine about someone hunting eastern whitetail with a caliber larger than they've chosen to stop an assailant.

This whole idea of Moe gun means less or no suffering is stupid. Not a single person here can quantify the suffering of any animal shot, stuck, or bopped on the head with anything. You have no knowledge of it, nor can you ever have. It is wishful thinking to make you feel good. It is silly.

I have no idea of the laws in Michigan, but we have similar deer laws here. There is a minimum case length of 1.16" (.357 mag), which rules out .45 acp and .38 sp, etc.

I'd consider finding a Ruger Deerfield semi auto in .44 mag. They are accurate enough, have plenty of power, and won't be a lot more money than the Hi-Point. Extremely low recoil

Other option would a lever in either .357, .45 Colt, .454, or .44 mag.