Carrying in the Workplace (No CHL)

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Sgt.Murtaugh

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I have a good friend who just started a job in a very dangerous area of town. It's a restaurant, and he's the Manager, so he's often closing late at night and is the last person to leave. Due to the fact that he's handling large amounts of cash each night and his office is pretty close to a back alley exit, he gets really worried that someone could very easily rob him as he's leaving or even as he's sitting in the office counting the cash.

Now, he wants to get a gun for protection while at work, but he doesn't have a CHL nor does he want to get one. Being that we live in Texas, I know you can legally carry in your car without a CHL, and furthermore, you're allowed to carry from your home to your car while transporting the gun (obviously). My question is, does this same law apply to the workplace and your vehicle? In other words, assuming the owner would allow him to keep a gun handy in the manager's office, would it be legal for my friend to carry while in the workplace? And I don't mean carry on his person, but rather keep the gun stashed in the office so that it's handy should a situation arise. Would he also be allowed to transport from vehicle to his workplace without breaking any laws?

I tried to find the pertinent information on a google search but couldn't find what I was looking for. Thanks for any help you may offer.
 
He doesn't need or want to carry anywhere besides the workplace. In fact, he owns no handguns, currently, and feels he doesn't need a handgun in his home.
 
If he doesn't want a handgun in his home where will he keep it at night? In his office? What if he's robbed opening/closing? Assuming he's not taking it with him, it won't help him if he's ever robbed while leaving.
 
IMHO you either need to decide you want/need to carry or that you don't. Being luke warm about it is a disaster waiting to happen. Things like leaving it in your car or having it at your home without a safe etc. is what seems to happen when you are not serious about carrying all of the time.
 
lol you guys are getting caught up in the "why" of the situation rather than just answering my questions. I don't know all his reasons for not wanting a CHL (perhaps because all the local CHL courses are on Sat/Sun and he works 12 hr shifts those days? I really don't know). I do know that he wants a pistol for when he closes at work because it is a really dangerous area of Dallas. I also know that he isn't concerned about keeping a handgun in the house, as he has no kids. He just prefers to keep a shotgun for home defense, something that's not really an option at a restaurant.

Can someone take a handgun into their place of employ as long as the owner consents even if they don't have a CHL? BAsically, is the workplace an extension of the home in that regard?
 
THIS IS AN OPINION BASED ON MY KNOWLEDGE OF ARKANSAS LAW. IT MEANS NOTHING REGARDING TEXAS LAW!

In Arkansas the workplace wouldn't be considered an extension of the home however, if it is private property and you have the consent of the property owner, it wouldn't be an issue here.
I would assume Texas is similar, but I'm not qualified to say for sure.
 
He needs to get a CHL. That's all there is to it. The course is now only 4 hours long. Why play around with fire? What's four hours and a $100?
 
Some legal issues:

  • Does he have/need the permission of the business owner to have a gun on premises? Does the business have a policy on employees having a gun at work?

  • With the consent of the business, it's likely that he could, under Texas law, have a gun at the workplace. And Texas law permits (perhaps with some conditions) a gun in one's car even without a CHL.

  • But there might be a problem carrying a loaded gun between the workplace and car without a CHL. Of course the gun could be transported (i. e., unloaded and cased) between the workplace and car, but then it would be useless for self defense at that time.
 
There are two things at play here, Texas law and company policy.

Your friend needs to look at company policy. Usually companies have an employee handbook regarding what policies it imposes on it's employees. And usually a perspective employee has to sign an agreement ...agreeing to company policies as a condition for employment. (Unless it is different in Texas) ....

Generally If the company spells out in the handbook that the employee is not allowed to bring any weapon onto the premises then that means no. In that case your friend needs to speak to the owner about these concerns and having the policy changed in writing. How did the last manager deal with this issue? It would be nice if your friend could speak with the former manager.

I know little about about Texas Law, but like others have stated, I would suggest getting a carry permit if your friend gets permission from the owner to carry.



***Though not applicable in this case, in New Jersey you have to be an owner (or part owner) of the business in order to carry at the business...within the confines of the business property.
 
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If he is serious about wanting protection because he is fearful he might be jumped or robbed then he needs a CHL. <--snip-->To many negative legal ramifications without a CHL. Even if the owner lets him have the firearm on property he still has the law to contend with when he is going to and from his vehicle which is what he is concerned about in the first place. Also he can't have it on his person while at work, what's to say another person can't access it from his office when he's not around? Logic would say get a CHL or find another way to defend yourself.
 
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thanks, guys. Very helpful information and much of what I suspected seems to line up with your thoughts.

It's a local business and not a corporate setting. The owner is cool with it so I guess the main issue is transport from car to building and vice versa.
 
If he parks in the restaurants parking lot he would be ok, with the owners permission to carry. If parking in off property, he would be in violation (unless cased I think)
 
double bogey said:
If he parks in the restaurants parking lot he would be ok, with the owners permission to carry....
Click to expand...
I think that would work if it's a private parking lot exclusive to the restaurant. But if, for example, the restaurant is in something like a strip mall and shares a parking lot with other businesses in that strip mall, I wouldn't be too sure.
 
Since nobody has addressed the law in Texas, yet, I guess I will.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm#46.02

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or

(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:

(1) the handgun is in plain view; or

(2) the person is:

(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic or boating;

(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or

(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.
Click to expand...

Now that I've posted the statute, I can't really offer much advice. Is it legal for him to carry the loaded handgun on the premises of the restaurant? Unless he is the person in control of the premises, the answer appears to be no. The only mention of an employee exception to carrying a handgun without a license is further down in the statute (is the person supervising the operation of a restaurant with an alcoholic beverage permit?):
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(7) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises;
Click to expand...

Now, the law does allow for carry directly en route to a motor vehicle owned by the person, but the law never specifies en route from where?

Anyway...that's the law. I would get the CHL or ask an attorney.
 
I have a good friend who just started a job in a very dangerous area of town. It's a restaurant, and he's the Manager, so he's often closing late at night and is the last person to leave. Due to the fact that he's handling large amounts of cash each night and his office is pretty close to a back alley exit, he gets really worried that someone could very easily rob him as he's leaving or even as he's sitting in the office counting the cash.

Now, he wants to get a gun for protection while at work, but he doesn't have a CHL nor does he want to get one. Being that we live in Texas, I know you can legally carry in your car without a CHL, and furthermore, you're allowed to carry from your home to your car while transporting the gun (obviously). My question is, does this same law apply to the workplace and your vehicle? In other words, assuming the owner would allow him to keep a gun handy in the manager's office, would it be legal for my friend to carry while in the workplace? And I don't mean carry on his person, but rather keep the gun stashed in the office so that it's handy should a situation arise. Would he also be allowed to transport from vehicle to his workplace without breaking any laws?

I tried to find the pertinent information on a google search but couldn't find what I was looking for. Thanks for any help you may offer.
Click to expand...

He could be setting himself up for deep crap (see, unlicensed carry of a firearm blaablab alcohol.)


Frank the mod said:
Of course the gun could be transported (i. e., unloaded and cased
Click to expand...
I don't think OP will find that wording or definition of transportation anywhere in the Texas law.
Castle doctrine seems to apply whenever the premises is under someone's "control", but who knows. I'm not a lawyer, and that's exactly what your friend needs.
 
Based on my experience as a night-club manager in Austin, Texas, back before there was such a thing as a CHL:

Court decisions had held that I was okay in the club, en route to my car from the club and then on to either a bank deposit station or home while carrying my handgun.

It's even simpler and easier, now, with the way "travelling" is covered in the law.

A club manager at work is by definition in control of the property. He is subject only to the wishes of the owner of the business as to carrying a weapon of whatever sort--but that is separate from Texas law.
 
Now that we know your friend is in a seedy part of Dallas,I would say he NEEDS to get a CHL and carry 24/7 and think seriously about keeping a BUG at work.I have not spent much time in Dallas since I left to move to Austin in 1981(At that point I never wanted to return.)If things have gotten any worse since then(I am sure they have not got any better)your friend needs to take responsibility for his own personal safety in a big way.Perhaps the owner of the restaurant should consider paying for your friends time spent training and qualifying. Art;which club did you manage in Austin?,if you don`t mind sharing that with us.Perhaps we crossed paths back in the day.I was in Austin from 81 to 87.Great times back then.
 
In '81, "Snaveley's" folk music club on 6th St. Otherwise, I hung out at Maggie Mae's; Greg the manager was a member of the IPSC club I started. Hill Country Practical Pistol Club. I was one of the "corner sitters" at Wylie's at happy hour with Terry Booth and a bunch of other ne'er-do-wells. :D
 
I remember Snavelys but I doubt I ever set foot in there.I was in Maggie Mays several times and liked the vibe of the place.I remember some graffiti permanently preserved on the wall across from the bar that proclaimed"Drink Guiness and make your enemies wives weep and lament!" I remember Wylies but doubt I ever went there either.Hole In The Wall and Antones were my favorite places.
 
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