CCW & home defense Lots to consider …

CCW is also different from home defense.

Click to expand...

for me it's not, my CCW comes out of the pocket and goes on the dresser when I go to bed and it's the first gun I reach for.

Depending on the weather I carry a Springfield 1911 or a Taurus PT145. The Taurus is an excellent carry during the very hot summers here, 10 rounds in the mag of .45acp, they did discontinue them so you may want to look at other lightweight guns. Mine has the stainless slide, and my holster has a sweat guard.

In the home, I'm fine with the .45. I would also say depending on your situation a dedicated house gun may be better, and not very expensive. Mossberg 500 series are great shotguns.

While your new to CCW, find out holsters that feel good, you can hide a larger gun that you think. Good holster, and a good belt make a difference.

I like the compact size 9mm. they carry comfortably with proper holster and have a wide range of differing loads. I stay away from +p loads for the concern of over penetration. I really like Hornady's critical defense. They have a insert in the hollow point to prevent clogging and ensure expansion. I use the Ruger SR9C and like it a lot,but honestly you may be different. Try many different brands and styles and see what fits you. If possible go somewhere where they rent guns see what suites you. Good luck.
Since you have been away from hand guns for quite a while, you may consider some training classes for you and your wife. They can help with defensive shooting technique," different from target shooting", and from there practice to develop muscle memory. Usually your local LE can turn you on to instructors.

I have to second the Ruger SR9c. It is a great pistol at a great price and for a shorter barrel it doesn't have that bad of a recoil. It also comes with a 10 and a 17 round magazine so you have options there. You could use the 10-rounder while CCW and load the 17 when at home. They are also very accurate with good triggers. I would recommend whatever pistol catches your interest, this guy has made probably a video to see it. This video happens to be the SR9c.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT1q1C_PnIY

This is a big can of worms. My quick answer would be a Springfield XDs in .45 or 9mm, AFTER the recal is settled.

Easy to carry in a hybrid holster. Accurate. Light. Easy to shoot. And with the extended magazine it holds enough rounds and becomes a gun with a full grip to work for home defense as well.

As far as strategy goes. I think you're on the right track. I keep a 7 shot .357 next to the bed, and a 1911 in the living room, as those are the places I'm most likely to be in the event of a break in.

No kids. If there were I just unload them and put them away.

15 years ago your carry weapon was a Glock 21. Assuming that firearm was comfortable for you, I would recommend a firearm with a similar setup such as a smaller framed Glock or XD. 15 years is a long time to spend out of the loop so that is why a smaller firearm would work better for you than a full size. Because of the climate where you live I would recommend a polymer framed pistol since they are often more comfortable to carry in hot climates instead of steal. All depends on what you are used to.

5.) Penetration – Two issues, … stopping the assailant, and stopping the assailant but putting others in danger because the bullets have continued their merry way through the assailant and are exiting on their own flight plan, possibly into bystanders.

Click to expand...

Penetration is often a result of the ammo chosen and less about the caliber. As you will have ammo of varying performances in all calibers. Ruger SR pistols are a good choice, the only real differences between them are caliber and dimensions as the triggers, safeties, features etc are similar from the SR45 to the SR9c. The SR9 or 9c would be hard to beat as a firearm to get accustomed to again. Good luck and welcome to THR.

↓ maybe?

Like most of us here, you will start a collection and it will grow, you will talk, read, surf all about it, and probably overly concern yourself with details that generally do not matter in the big picture: All part of the learning process. You will eventually determine your favorite weapons and everything will work out. Don't miss the forest for the trees.

Firstly, you should be congratulated on your excellent articulation. Good job.

In order, the three most important factors when selecting a SD firearm are;

• Reliability.
• Practical accuracy.
• Power.

I won't go into describing these since I'm sure you understand their meaning and significance, save for number two. Practical accuracy is the ability of the shooter/firearm to deliver rounds to target consistently, accurately, and confidently. Notice that power is the lowest of these factors, not because it is of lesser importance but rather if the other two don't exist then power becomes pretty insignificant.

Enter into this mix the user's own criteria and that is where you are. You should first determine what size and configuration (single stack vs double stack) is likely to suit your requirements. Once you have narrowed this down, then caliber can be considered. I'm going to take the assumption that a mid-sized gun may be your best bet.

One thing I would like to dispel is the idea that one or two shots will be all that is needed if they are well placed. This is a myth in that there are no certainties when it comes to shooting an assailant. It could take one or it could take the entire magazine. Every incident is different so unless you manage a solid hit to his cranium the likelihood of dropping him in one or two shots is better left out of your mind.

1.) Stopping power
Great many arguments nearly every day on the net on this one. First, one has to define stopping power and I say that because there are differences of opinions on what stopping power actually is. As a general rule of thumb, the more powerful the cartridge, the more stopping power it is going to have. But please do keep in mind that this is so variable in that bullet design plays a huge part in this. I would say your best bet is to choose the caliber that works best for you. The one with which you can satisfy my number two criteria above. And also keep in mind that different pistols will handle the same caliber loadings differently. For example, the Smith and Wesson M&P 40 tends to be easier to shoot than the Glock 23 due to its grip. This will hold true for a number of different guns so keep your mind open here.

2.) Penetration vs. over penetration
If this is a major consideration, consider using frangible ammo. However, it is better to use quality modern ammunition (Speer Gold Dot, Federal HST, etc.) when your life is on the line.

3.) Size / Comfort for CCW (Carrying / Shooting)
A famous gun writer once said that a carry gun should be comforting, not comfortable [Jeff Cooper]. One should consider the fact that he uttered these words years before the explosion in variations of modern pistols. Still it does carry weight. It's not difficult to find a pistol that is both easy to carry and satisfies most all of your requirements. Your best bet is a major gun show where you can handle a large number of guns to see which ones you like and which ones you wish to avoid. Stick to quality and guns with a proven track record of reliability (there's that word again).

4.) Accuracy
I covered this above under "Practical accuracy".

5.) Capacity
I can't think of anyone who has ever written or said that they wished they carried less ammunition. Carry what you believe is best for your specific needs and err on the side of prudence. If you must carry a single stacked gun, carry at least one back up magazine.

6.) Sweat, moisture, …
Some of the best pistols to carry in these conditions are the plastic wonders. Glock, Ruger, Smith and Wesson M&P, Springfield XD, and so on. All internal metal parts tend to be stainless steel and hold up very well to such adverse conditions.

In closing, I would strongly suggest that you seek out quality training for both the use of handguns in your defense AND the laws of your state when having to do this. Never stop learning.

It's always a battle of comfort vs stopping power for CCW. What you choose depends on you. After owning 4-5 CCW guns I carry a small .380 FWIW.

Home defense is a can of worms. You will hear 50/50 for long gun vs pistol. My setup is a powerful long gun in the closet(shotgun) and a plan in place to get to it(across the room). This plan is rehearsed and understood by my significant other and the pistol on my nightstand if for in between.

Aaaahhh ... another take on the classic,

"I use my pistol to help me get to my rifle."

Well written post and the considerations for both home and self defense are things I consider. Pay attention to firearm safety.

You have a couple shotguns at home, so the immediate home defense issue is taken care of. But I'd keep at least one of them out of the safe, loaded, and accessible.

If you have no firearms and you're concerned about self defense, the self defense (carry) issue should be addressed first.

Carry is not something I am all hung up about and I choose a small S&W J-frame revolver in 38spl for that purpose. Pocket carry works for me. But they aren't particularly fun to shoot. There is a trade off.

I think if you liked Glocks, that is the first place you should look since you are probably still modestly familir with them. I use a Gock 23 as one of my home defense weapons and an occasional carry gun. Glocks are very reliable and that's important. They are not hard to disassemble and if necessary replace parts.

In general, I think you're good to go with either 9mm or 40 & calibers in semi-autos; 38spl or larger on revolvers.... I honestly prefer revolvers. I keep a 3" Ruger GP-100 at home loaded for home defense purposes and it is likely the one I would grab in the event I needed to protect myself at home. I would nudge my wife to grab the Glock.

I would suggest you decide on what you like or where your leanings are and get a similar 22 handgun for range practice. You can learn a lot shooting them with less cost that translates over to larger caliber handguns. Having a 22 rimfire handgun in your home that can be used for home defense is not a bad thing especially when you may be more likely to be able to shoot it well. People use them all the time, but seldom recommend them for this purpose due to the factors you mentioned, BUT they still use them regardless. That's important.

You should keep your home defense firearms loaded. Then treat every firearm as if it is loaded regardless. You don't want any mistakes. Both of you can learn about safety together.

Firearms are becoming more easily viewed and found in variety at gunshops now. Take your time to handle your preferred guns before buying. Ideally you should shoot them, but that is not usually possible. Rental is an option, but I generally just learn as I go. Figure if I just hate the gun, I can always sell it.

Buy good quality guns known for their reliability.

Unfortunately a CCW weapon is a very personal choice. I have been through many myself trying to find the "perfect one". What may be perfect for me may not work at all for you. My mode of dress dictates what I will carry on a given day.

Some carry pocket/mouse guns, some small revolvers all the way up to full size service pistols and all points in between.

The only thing I will add is a good horsehide holster will help guard against sweat.

I would recommend that you put as much effort in holster and belt selection as you do in firearm choice and caliber. A poor fitting or cheaply made ( not to be confused with inepensive) can make even the smallest handguns a chore to carry. A good holster and belt can make carrying a G21 comfortable. The average belt may work ok when new, but later stretches and sags, leaving two choices, buy belts frequently, or pay more initially for a good quality belt..

The best CCW for you is going to be a gun that feels comfortable in your hand, that you're comfortable manipulating, and that you enjoy shooting. Because the gun you enjoy shooting will be the gun you're most willing to practice/train with, and the gun you practice/train with is the gun you'll be most effective using. And that's the most important feature of a gun.

I find that many new shooters will do a lot of research and find that "perfect gun," but the "perfect gun" on paper often does not turn out to be the best gun in real life.

Meanwhile fan boys and gun forum trolls will argue until they're blue in the face why their particular gun is the "best," but it's only the best gun if you can hit something with it.

So the best advice I can give you is to find a range that rents guns, and try them all out. Try the GLOCK, M&P, XD, Sig, Kahr, J Frame and everything else that's been recommended. Then you tell us what works best for you.

Aaaahhh ... another take on the classic,

"I use my pistol to help me get to my rifle."

Click to expand...

The wheel is better than the square..

Lots of good advise already. I'll just add my own $.02

1.) Stopping power

Click to expand...

Gun enthusiast love to argue relative stopping power of their favorite rounds. IMO the truth is that if you chose any of the current serivce pistol rounds (9mm, .357SIG, .40W&W or .45ACP) there isn't really all that much practical difference between them. If you do your job they will do their's. Its only when you drop down to .38SPL, .380ACP, .32ACP, .25ACP or .22 rimfire that "stopping power" starts to become a concern.

6.) Sweat, moisture, …

Click to expand...

THere is no gun that is totally imune to these problems. If you are really concerned about it the best response is probably a stainless gun, although this will be heavier than a alloy or polymer frame gun. If you clean and oil your gun regularly, though, it probably won't be a problem with any quality gun.

I stay away from +p loads for the concern of over penetration.

Click to expand...

This is actually mistaken thinking. With JHP ammo, low velocity is often the cause of overpenetration. One of the big critisisms of the early 147gr loads for 9mm was that their subsonic velocity was too low to cause the bullets to expand, resulting in overpenetration compared to faster, lighter rounds.

I would recommend that you put as much effort in holster and belt selection as you do in firearm choice and caliber.

Click to expand...

I totally agree with this. I was amazed at the difference a proper, lined gun belt made as far as carrying comfort.

Meanwhile fan boys and gun forum trolls will argue until they're blue in the face why their particular gun is the "best," but it's only the best gun if you can hit something with it.

Click to expand...

yep hit with it but not just one shot at a time good stance range shooting hit with it.

How does one pick a ccw? there's only so much that can be gleaned by forum posts and as to what to buy most of the quality brands would work.Instead of fussing over caliber, penetration and whether a gun will melt from sweat I believe the best way to go is to decide how you're going to carry, then after six months (if you didn't chose pocket carry ) go out and buy a pocket gun.

Blazing, welcome to the forum...

The trouble with asking what you should carry is all the answers you get are for what the person posting should carry. You are asking for too much, everything concerning handguns is a compromise. Which cartridge to carry is a compromise between felt recoil and stopping ability. Size of the handgun is a compromise between concealability and being able to hold on to the gun. I think you know what I'm getting at.

When asked these questions here at home I tell people to choose a handgun they can shoot well in a cartridge they can control well enough to get good hits with. Then dress around what you decide to carry concealed.

Also, CCW and HD are completely different animals. At home you can use a larger handgun with a longer barrel than can normally be concealed well. The longer barrel and heavier handgun makes shooting it well easier. Practice is also more enjoyable because the weight of the gun reduces the felt recoil. My HD weapon is a short barrel shotgun loaded with #4 Buckshot. You said your shotguns are not accessible but that's your fault. It may take a little time but you can lock them up when you're not home and make them ready when you're home. (especially since there are no children in the home)

Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear but IMO it's what is right. Only you can decide what's best for you and your wife has to decided what's best for her.

My thoughts: If there are no kiddos in the house, I would keep one or both shotguns more at the ready than they are if that is your long arm of choice, and pick out a pistol that is comfortable to shoot and carry.

For me, with a young child in the house, I only keep one loaded firearm in my fast access safe, and that's my FNS-40. It's got night sights, good magazine size, and I like the .40 performance. The rest of my guns are locked up unloaded with the ammo locked in a different safe. I feel that the danger of my 3 year old stumbling across something outweighs any potential threat that I couldn't take care of with 14 rounds and a reload of hot .40 S&W.

My CCW is a Glock 26 that I keep locked in my truck in a nano safe when I get home. It's boringly great at this role for me. Like yourself, I was looking for reliability, durability, and comfort. The only more comfortable gun that brings at least 9mm performance is my .38 LCR in a jacket pocket holster.

If you liked the 21 you had years ago, why not a 30? It would be familiar, would be easier to conceal and pack around, and could take a 21 magazine if you want to go from 10 to 30.

For me, I went with the 26 over the 30 simply because i wanted a lighter gun. I have found myself more and more electing to not carry if the gun isn't comfortable. I have no qualms with 9mm over .45.

I have three ccw guns .A lcp for rare specific situations at work .
A kahr CM9 I carry a lot and a Glock 26 also carried a lot. Home defense
its a Glock 19 in the bedroom and my 26 in the front of the house.
The lcp carries FMJ rounds the 9mm carries gold dots.

Good questions!
1) There's no such thing as "stopping power" as it can't be measured or reproduced scientifically. All handguns are relatively poor "stoppers" regardless of caliber or bullet used. Shot placement and sufficient penetration are paramount, all else is secondary. Barring a hit to the CNS or a psychological stop (ie: BG chooses to end the encounter even though still physically capable of continuing), the only way to stop an aggressive and determined BG is shutting down the brain from oxygen deprivation due to bleedout (that's where shot placement and sufficient penetration come in). Conventional wisdom is to choose the most powerful cartridge you can shoot both quickly and accurately.

2) From http://www.pointshooting.com/1afbi1.htm :
"An issue that must be addressed is the fear of over penetration widely expressed on the part of law enforcement. The concern that a bullet would pass through the body of a subject and injure an innocent bystander is clearly exaggerated. Any review of law enforcement shootings will reveal that the great majority of shots fired by Officers do not hit any subjects at all. It should be obvious that the relatively few shots that do hit a subject are not somehow more dangerous to bystanders than the shots that miss the subject entirely.

Also, a bullet that completely penetrates a subject will give up a great deal of energy doing so. The skin on the exit side of the body is tough and flexible. Experiments have shown that it has the same resistance to bullet passage as approximately four inches of muscle tissue.(37)

Choosing a bullet because of relatively shallow penetration will seriously compromise weapon effectiveness, and needlessly endanger the lives of the law enforcement Officers using it. No law enforcement Officer has lost his life because a bullet over penetrated his adversary, and virtually none have ever been sued for hitting an innocent bystander through an adversary. On the other hand, tragically large numbers of Officers have been killed because their bullets did not penetrate deeply enough."

For CCW I prefer to err on the side of penetration (YMMV) and use Hornady's Critical Duty as it reaches 15" (the middle of the FBI's suggested penetration range of 12"-18") seemingly regardless of bbl length or barriers. Of course, this is achieved at the price of less expansion but I would rather have a bullet w/less expansion that reaches the vitals than a bullet w/more expansion that doesn't.

In an apartment I wouldn't fault someone for choosing an effective rd that limits penetration.

3) I have a SIG P250 hybrid (subcompact slide on a bobbed 15+1 grip module) that I can carry CCW. However, it's not as comfortable as the 8+1 SIG P290RS I normally CCW so the P250 is usually my nightstand gun even though it has greater capacity and I shoot it faster/more accurately. The P290RS is *very* comfortable for me to carry so there's little chance I'll leave it at home even though "I'm only making a quick trip to the store." Better the smaller/more comfortable gun you have than the larger gun left at home. It can take a lot of experimentation to find the right handgun/holster combo that works best for *you* so don't get discouraged if your first couple of tries aren't as successful as you might like.

4) Hard to quantify this, did you have specific requirements? All quality handguns *should* be capable of acceptable combat accuracy, the big question is the shooter. I practice Mozambique drills (2 COM {center of mass}, 1 to the head) at 5-7yds, trying for an even shooting tempo (ie: bang, bang, bang instead of bang, bang, (hesitation while aiming at head), bang). Don't worry about speed, that comes w/practice. Instead, concentrate on getting those hits as a slow hit is better than a fast miss (slow is smooth, smooth is fast). As a general rule, heavier guns & smaller calibers are easier to shoot well than smaller gun & heavier calibers.

5) For CCW, capacity will be determined by 3 factors: How much capacity you think you need, how well do you shoot a larger capacity handgun vs a similar smaller capacity handgun and how comfortable/easy is it for you to carry either capacity. Ex: My SIG P250 hybrid holds 15+1 shots and has the superior trigger when compared to my SIG P290RS that only holds 8+1 shots. I can shoot the P250 a little faster & more accurately than the P290RS. However, the P290RS is much more comfortable to carry and it's much easier to conceal thanks to the thinner grip (and shorter grip if I use the 6rd mag instead of the extended 8rd mag). So, guess which I carry most of the time? Of course, my speed & accuracy w/the P290RS is acceptable by my standards otherwise I wouldn't carry it regardless of how comfortable it may be. Everything else being equal, larger capacity is always more desirable (as my cop friend once said "I never heard of anyone complaining about having too much ammo after a gunfight") but can be compensated for by carrying more mags (w/my P290RS I always carry 2 8rd reloads for 25rds total whereas w/the P250 I carry one 15rd reload for 31rds total).

Action type: Lots of personal preference here w/the main types being SA (single action), DA/SA (double action/single action combo) and DAO (double action only, like a revolver). All have their advantages/disadvantages and you may have to experiment a bit to find what suits you best.
I chose DAO for my CCW & nightstand needs for the following reasons:
1) Under stress when the adrenaline is pumping and fine motor control goes out the window, I don't want to worry about manipulating a manual safety or having too light a trigger.
2) I don't care for the transition between DA & SA with DA/SA pistols or as mentioned above, having too light a trigger after the first DA shot (YMMV).
3) I want each shot deliberate and a long DAO trigger ensures this and reduces the chances of a negligent discharge when under stress.

As others have suggested before me, try to handle and shoot as many different pistols as possible to find out what size/caliber/action type works best for *you* then get some good training.
HTH, keep us posted!...
Tomac

SIG P250 Hybrid and SIG P290RS (w/extended mag):

Blazing, I do believe that home defense and carry weapons fill different options, so IMO there is a clear difference between the two. For home defense it's hard to beat a shotgun, most of the time. Either in 12 or 20 gauge, pump or side by side. I really like the looks and ease of use of the current crop of side by side "coach guns."

If you chose to use a handgun for home defense then I recommend a Smith and Wesson M-586 or its' stainless steel counterpart the M-686, either one would work just fine with a 4" or 6" barrel. Both are chambered in the powerful .357 Magnum caliber, but either one can and will safely shoot the less powerful 38 special ammo. So you have the option of loading your home defense revolver with an assortment of ammo.

As for a ccw revolver I believe that any Smith and Wesson stainless steel .357 Magnum revolver would be an excellent choice followed by any Smith and Wesson stainless steel 38 special revolver. With the K frame series being my first option.

As fine a handgun as they are I've never felt well armed with a J frame revolver, except as a back up weapon. Yet many folks carry them daily and are pleased with that option.

No matter what you decide, don't rush into any decision and best of luck whatever you do.

That's a lot of material to chew through, I won't attempt to tackle all of it. Just some initial thoughts:

1. "Stopping power" is a pretty vague term that has never been properly quantified. It's pretty easy to kill something but can be much more difficult to stop it, and handguns are notoriously unreliable at this. I read somewhere that the .45 has a 15 to 20% larger permanent wound cavity, on average, than comparable 9mm loads. Yes, this is enough to appreciate under some circumstances. But when you consider the sacrifice you have to make in terms of capacity, firearm size and weight, ammo cost, and recoil, you should be able to understand why some people are more confident in a 9mm. I am one of those people.

2. There's no right and wrong choice here. The market has never seen such diversity, or such quality. There is very little actual crap out there. Find something reliable that you shoot well, and practice with it. If it feels good in the hand, points well for you, and has controls in places that are intuitive to you, it is an acceptable choice. Confidence in yourself and your abilities with your equipment matter more than what your equipment is.

3. Straight up, too many people care far too much about over penetration. First and foremost, before you consider energy, diameter, or expansion, you have to ensure you have adequate penetration. A shallow, gaping, superficial wound channel is going to be far less reliable at stopping an attacker than a deep, narrow wound that makes it into the chest cavity and pokes holes in something important. Most of the vital organs and large cardiovascular structures that must be penetrated to reliably stop an attacker failing a CNS hit are going to be located deep in the chest cavity. If you consider that half the people in this country are overweight and over a third are obese, then consider possible clothing as well as other obstacles (if your assailant is trying to shoot you, there's a good chance your projectile will have to penetrate their hands, wrist, or forearm before it even reaches their chest), it's easy to see why those who do the research insist that its easier to get too little penetration than too much. I would use FMJs long before I used some light-for-caliber fragnible or any of the other gimmick rounds, barring access to a modern, premium moderate to heavy for caliber JHP. Consider this...if the US Air Marshalls still require their JHPs to meet FBI protocal by acheiving 12 inches of penetration through tissue simulate regardless of clothing or other intermediate barriers, even when they are five miles in the air in a pressurized cabin crammed with 200 other people, flying at 600 mph, why would you think your situation required any less?

I have a Glock 19. Never felt under protected with 15+1, Win PDX 124 gr +P. The pistol is the right size, is lightweight, has excellent capacity, and has been 100% reliable. It also has a single, consistent, trigger pull from the first round to the last, which is important to me because I detest traditional double actions specifically because I feel having two distinctly different trigger pulls on the same firearm is counter-intuitive, assinine, and retarded.

I stay away from +p loads for the concern of over penetration.

Click to expand...

Which is exactly the opposite of what you should do if that is your primary concern. When dealing with JHPs, velocity is the enemy of penetration--the faster the bullet goes, the faster it expands, and thus, the less it penetrates. If you've spent any time at all studying terminal ballistics, you should have noticed that the +P JHPs usually have less penetration than the standard velocity loads.