gun in a handbag

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RetiredUSNChief said:
When I was overseas, I'd usually take part in a little misdirection, myself. I habitually carried two wallets....one in my front pocket, which had my bare-bones military ID, credit card, phone card, and cash. The second was in my hip pocket and contained just a little bit of the local currency.

The idea was to provide a pickpocket with the typical tempting target of a wallet in a hip pocket as a distraction from the real McCoy. Never had my pockets picked, fortunately, but several shipmates did. Amazing how many didn't think it was such a silly idea after they'd lost their wallets. Several took up the habit afterwards, and one did, indeed, have his decoy wallet stolen.
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It's a shame the decoy trick's not really feasible with a firearm. Great idea though.

I own a couple pairs of cargo pocket shorts that have front pockets deep enough to hide a 1911 in. With a long-tailed T-shirt, I can easily conceal a full size 1911 in a place that's easily accessible. How easy it would be to lift it from me out of that pocket, I can only guess...
 
9MMare said:
^^^ Here is an essential different between men and women (including physically).

Carry extra stuff in pockets.


No.
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No arguments from me.

My wife rarely carries a purse, preferring by far to keep it simple and carry a wallet. Even when she does carry a purse, it's almost always juuuuuust big enough to carry her wallet and keys and no larger.
 
two gun charlie said:
In fact I am very much in favor of the laws prohibiting women to carry fire-arms in their handbags , it's just too much like giving guns to criminals in my opinion
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I understand that many folks feel this way/that way about carry. But new Law, or revisited Law is not something needed, IMO we don't need no stinking law.
 
OK I can see that certain people are trying to change the direction of conversation because of one simple word ,lets try and forget my comment on the LAWS ....OOOH THE LAWS , the IN_LAWS :D

I still feel it is irresponsible carrying a fire-arm in a "bag" that is often the specific target of criminals , and I say it because I personally know three women who lost their guns to bag snatchers , in one particular case the woman didn't even notice her handbag was missing out of her shopping trolley until she left the shop. To me that is not "carrying responsibly" :scrutiny:
 
yip that is a good argument , if you don't like something do as you please instead of rather thinking of the consequence and adapting to a more responsible way of doing things , isn't that what this type of forum is all about at the end of the day
 
kyew said:
It's a shame the decoy trick's not really feasible with a firearm. Great idea though.
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actually it is not only possible but has been and probably still is often done , unfortunately I cannot go into detail , because it's a trick I use myself , and it only works because people don't know , wouldn't work if everybody knew , but if you think about it carefully you will figure it out
 
actually it is not only possible but has been and probably still is often done , unfortunately I cannot go into detail , because it's a trick I use myself , and it only works because people don't know , wouldn't work if everybody knew , but if you think about it carefully you will figure it out
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Surely you don't walk around with a fake gun on your hip as a "decoy".
 
... do as you please instead of rather thinking of the consequence and adapting to a more responsible way of doing things , isn't that what this type of forum is all about at the end of the day
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I really like doing things the best way possible.

I don't like little pocket and sub-compact guns. The little guns are generally quite a bit harder to shoot accurately and folks don't usually practice with them enough to overcome the detriments of their small size and poor sights. I feel they represent both a decreased chance of successful self-defense and an increased danger to bystanders due to errant shots.

But I'd rather people were armed with a KelTec .32 than with nothing.

I don't like purse or other off-body carry. I think it becomes far too easy to mislay a purse with a deadly weapon inside it, or to have it stolen. I DO think a purse is a target for thieves and I'm against any action that tends to increase the number of guns going into the hands of criminals. I would argue quite firmly that any woman (or man with a bag habit) should eschew that sloppy carry form for a strong-side belt holster of some type (and carrying a medium to full-sized gun that they can shoot well).

But I'd much rather they purse-carried than that they went unarmed.

Everything is a compromise. Not everyone will make the compromises that I make. Not everyone will make the same choice today that they'll make next week (like...after their purse is snatched, perhaps?).

But to tell them NOT to carry because they won't do it your way is throwing the baby out with the trash. Great intent, horrible execution. Don't lose sight of the goal. 1st, get them TO carry. 2nd get them to do it as you see best.
 
Just like differing opinions on leaving a gun locked in a car, or in this thread, off-body carry, I see the risks.

However I do not agree with accepting responsibility for guns 'ending up' in hands of criminals. I am not responsible for the actions of criminals. It's not a firearm just left laying around, it requires a deliberate criminal act to take it.
 
JustinJ said:
Surely you don't walk around with a fake gun on your hip as a "decoy".
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Justin I carry concealed , but there are people out there that aren't fooled , they see the little bulge under your shirt and they know what it is , and some of them are the kind of people who would kill you to get it. Now if they happen to surprise me and they demand my gun , I will be giving it to them without an argument :D ............:evil: and that is all I have to say about that
 
Posted by two gun charlie: Justin I carry concealed , but there are people out there that aren't fooled , they see the little bulge under your shirt and they know what it is , and some of them are the kind of people who would kill you to get it.
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Not likely if you know what you are doing, and probably even less likely than having a man who is running off with a snatched purse somehow divine that it contains a handgun, stop, grab the gun, turn back, and shoot the victim with her own gun.

Now if they happen to surprise me and they demand my gun , I will be giving it to them without an argument ............ and that is all I have to say about that
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Well, I suppose it might depend upon the exact situation, but I cannot imagine willfully handing a loaded gun to anyone displying criminal intent.

Should a violent criminal actor happen to determine that a potential victim is carrying concealed and decide to try to acquire the firearm, I rather doubt that he would go about it by demanding that the victim hand over his weapon.
 
Justin I carry concealed , but there are people out there that aren't fooled , they see the little bulge under your shirt and they know what it is , and some of them are the kind of people who would kill you to get it.
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Other items, smart phones for example, that people carry with them create bulges below one's clothing. If a criminal runs around trying to mug everybody with a bulge he very rarely will turn up a gun. If, on the other hand, the print of a gun is blatantly showing then the carrier needs to review and adjust his carry method. However, i'm only speaking of the states so things may be different in your country of residence.

There is one clever little holster which mimics a wallet but holds a mouse pistol such as a ruger lcr instead of one's money and ID. I would not like to rely on such for my primary carry weapon but it could be handy if a criminal demands one's wallet while but I wouldn't want to rely on that if a gun were trained on me. The problem then becomes that one may have to hand over the gun to a criminal who initially was just seeking a wallet.
 
.........I am not going to say that again Klean , if it went over your head then it went over your head :evil: sometimes there is more between the lines than you see at first , I suggest you read my statement again , slowly ;)
 
Oh, I see....

But that's a most unlikely scenario, don't you think? Should they happen to "surprise" you, don't you imagine that it would be by slashing tendons or hitting you in the head from behind?
 
Kleanbore said:
Oh, I see....

But that's a most unlikely scenario, don't you think? Should they happen to "surprise" you, don't you imagine that it would be by slashing tendons or hitting you in the head from behind?
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nope , most of them know you can't draw from concealed faster than they can slash you with a knife , so they just walk up with a knife and ask you to hand it over (a partner might be standing a little behind you) most people will resist (and get stabbed) if you don't resist you will more than likely get shot with your own gun. And therefore the clever little trick , because once you hand over the gun , they concentrate on the gun , instead of on your other hand :evil:
and yes this situation has played out a few times ... I would love to tell you more but as you can imagine I am bordering on what some might see in the same light as entrapment ...and in this country it is severely frowned upon by the powers that be.
 
Posted by two gun charlie: nope , most of them know you can't draw from concealed faster than they can slash you with a knife , so they just walk up with a knife and ask you to hand it over (a partner might be standing a little behind you) most people will resist (and get stabbed) if you don't resist you will more than likely get shot with your own gun. And therefore the clever little trick , because once you hand over the gun , they concentrate on the gun , instead of on your other hand
and yes this situation has played out a few times ...
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Well, I won't say it cannot happen, but I do not think I have ever heard of anyone demanding a firearm from a concealed carrier in this country.

Every so often someone takes, or tries to take, a firearm from an open carrier, but I don't know of any situation in which the crook asked for it first.

The subject of police officers being shot with their own firearms was raised earlier. Because police officers are charged with the duty of stopping fights and effecting arrests of persons who are likely violent and who may be very desperate, that is an obvious risk. But it has nothing much to do with the discussion here.

Back to concealed carry: as JustinJ said, either the "bulge" is much more likely to be a cell phone [or amulti-tool, etc.] than a firearm, or the carrier is not concealing properly.

I carry whenever I can, and I am not aware of anyone ever noticing. Yesterday, I twice walked past several seated peace officers who were eating lunch, and while they were obviously being observant and watched me approach and pass, none of them glanced at my IWB carry position.

Having to draw from concealment puts the victim of a close quarter attack at a disadvantage, but giving fair warning would tend to even up the odds. I cannot imagine why any violent criminal actor would take the chance.

I would love to tell you more but as you can imagine I am bordering on what some might see in the same light as entrapment ...and in this country it is severely frowned upon by the powers that be.
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I wondered why you have been beating around the bush. In this country, there would be little question about the justifiability of using physical force, or even deadly force if necessary, to prevent the taking of a firearm in a robbery. The question of entrapment would never come up.
 
9MMare said:
Very cool. Is your wife carrying a semi-auto? I have practiced dry firing from inside my purse....from practice and what I've read, the slide isnt going back into battery after that first shot. So that first shot is all the more important because she really needs to draw after that. Has she found that?
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No, she has a J-frame .38 Special. It works just fine fired from inside a bag. ;)
 
Funny things happen over here I can tell you that much and the law of the jungle often supersedes the law of the court , criminals here can often be so arrogant they look like they just walked off a Hollywood movie set.

For the most part it is just like any other third world country and some parts are pretty much like first world countries , but don't let it fool you , one wrong turn off the highway and five kilometers later you drive right into the twilight zone , where anything can and often does happen. :scrutiny: you have to keep your wits about you.

Make no mistake , it doesn't mean that if such things don't happen state side today , that it wont happen there tomorrow.

Large parts of this country used to be some of the safest places in the world, just a few decades ago you could walk unarmed through Pretoria at midnight without any fear , you would be hard pressed to find a sane person that would walk through those same areas in this day and age even with a gun.
 
two gun charlie said:
Justin I carry concealed , but there are people out there that aren't fooled , they see the little bulge under your shirt and they know what it is , and some of them are the kind of people who would kill you to get it. Now if they happen to surprise me and they demand my gun , I will be giving it to them without an argument :D ............:evil: and that is all I have to say about that
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Sooo...

Now we've gone from 'don't ever carry concealed in a handbag because the bad guys might get your gun under X circumstances' to 'don't ever carry concealed under your shirt because the bad guy might get your gun under X circumstances'?

Why carry a gun at all, with that kind of logic?


Once again, how and what a person chooses to carry is a personal choice and is made based upon a variety of reasons and circumstances. Each has its advantages and disadvantages and these should be considered and, where necessary, compensated for by a variety of methodologies.

I will not gainsay a woman (or a man, for that matter) who chooses to carry a weapon concealed in some kind of external bag any more than I would gainsay a person who chooses to carry a weapon concealed by any other method, be that IWB, ankle holster, thigh holster, shoulder rig, or one of them fancy under-the-bra-thingies.

Carry as one sees fit for whatever circumstances, be proficient at it, and take the appropriate precautions.

Period.
 
Posted by two gun charlie: Make no mistake , it doesn't mean that if such things don't happen state side today , that it wont happen there tomorrow.
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No question about it. Things are very bad in some areas and may well get worse in others.

What I cannot get my arms around is the tactical question: (1) how would any criminal find with any degree of confidence, from among all of the people on the street, which one was carrying concealed, and (2) having done so, why on Earth would would he put the potential victim on alert by announcing that he wanted his gun?

It is not the peaceable environment of the streets of El Paso or Memphis that makes that a virtually unheard of event. It is that it is not a reasonable way of successfully going about the acquisition of a firearm.

Better ways to do it might include the smash and grab of an auto parked outside a no-gun facility (there's some small chance that there may be a gun in the car); getting in line behind an open carrier, where that is allowed, and attacking first with violent effect (100% chance that there is a gun, but the perp may not get away); or trying to mug someone coming out of a gun range (high chance of finding a gun that is probably cased and unloaded, but very risky).

But looking around in Memphis (5% of the people have permits, but far fewer carry all the time), looking for someone with some kind of bulge, and then demanding that the victim hand over a firearm would seem to combine the chances of success of drawing on an inside straight and trying to survive Russian Roulette with four rounds in a J-frame.
 
two gun charlie said:
actually it is not only possible but has been and probably still is often done , unfortunately I cannot go into detail , because it's a trick I use myself , and it only works because people don't know , wouldn't work if everybody knew , but if you think about it carefully you will figure it out
Click to expand...

Possible, sure, but not feasible to carry a second gun of comparable weight and dimension as your carry gun. I get the image of carrying a plastic facsimile in a more readily identifiable position than your carry gun, and while they're intent upon taking the fake from you, you show them the real deal. That just seems like a bit more trouble than I'm willing to put up with myself. And I know I won't be carrying a second non-functional 1911 to hand someone; those things are too heavy to carry two every day!

I haven't gotten my CWP yet, but it's happening soon. I'm presently researching the different methods of carrying large pistols concealed. That's one of my biggest "musts"; that it be in a position I can protect it and also draw it easily. So far the closest I've come is the Spandex-looking vest, that has a holster in it, that goes under a shirt. I'm still looking though, as I don't like the idea of wearing another layer of clothing (it gets too hot here in SC).
 
9MMare said:
Just like differing opinions on leaving a gun locked in a car, or in this thread, off-body carry, I see the risks.

However I do not agree with accepting responsibility for guns 'ending up' in hands of criminals. I am not responsible for the actions of criminals. It's not a firearm just left laying around, it requires a deliberate criminal act to take it.
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I'm with you on that. No one can take the weight of the world on their shoulders. Assess the risks, decide your course of action, and live with it. It's really just that simple.
 
kyew said:
Possible, sure, but not feasible to carry a second gun of comparable weight and dimension as your carry gun. I get the image of carrying a plastic facsimile in a more readily identifiable position than your carry gun, and while they're intent upon taking the fake from you, you show them the real deal. That just seems like a bit more trouble than I'm willing to put up with myself. And I know I won't be carrying a second non-functional 1911 to hand someone; those things are too heavy to carry two every day!

I haven't gotten my CWP yet, but it's happening soon. I'm presently researching the different methods of carrying large pistols concealed. That's one of my biggest "musts"; that it be in a position I can protect it and also draw it easily. So far the closest I've come is the Spandex-looking vest, that has a holster in it, that goes under a shirt. I'm still looking though, as I don't like the idea of wearing another layer of clothing (it gets too hot here in SC).
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If I lived where you live , I wouldn't either , but I don't , and yes off course the dummy is plastic , it only needs to fool a person for about two seconds , after that there isn't very much he can do
 
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