DHS says people with handguns, rifles, and shotguns may be terrorists

ssyoumans · Oct 23, 2013

Weapons do not have to be “cached” in remote locations to meet the standard for suspicious activity. According to the bulletin, weapons could be stored in an “individual’s home, storage facility, or vehicle” and may include common firearms such as “rifles, shotguns, pistols” as well as “military grade weapons.” The illegal possession of large amounts of ammunition is also listed as a potential indicator of “criminal weapons possession related to terrorism.”

Anyone able to clarify what "illegal possession of large amounts of ammunition" is?

For your reading pleasure:
http://publicintelligence.net/weapons-discovery-terrorism/

Queen_of_Thunder · Oct 23, 2013

There are 100 million plus gun owners in the U.S. so how are they going to handle that.

HankR · Oct 23, 2013

One at a time?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=732606

piece of meat · Oct 23, 2013

This corrupt entity needs to be disposed of. Their ideology is absolutely clueless and dangerous

buck460XVR · Oct 23, 2013

Njal Thorgeirsson · Oct 23, 2013

These people are idiots (for countless reasons), but with respect to this article in particular, they are idiots because their claim is note even supported by their evidence.

They essentially use evidence that indicates: [terrorists and criminals are likely to have large stockpiles of weapons and ammunition, especially mass-murderers]. Well no s---. Of course they do.

But its logically unsound and backwards to flip that evidence and say [people with large stockpiles of ammunition and weapons are likely terrorists].

Terrorism and criminal activity are indicators of firearm and ammunition stockpiling. Firearm and ammunition stockpiling ARE NOT indicators of terrorism and criminal activity.

Cee Zee · Oct 23, 2013

Gee that means I must have been a terrorist for 20 years and didn't even know it! I wonder what I'm planning on shooting up or blowing up. I've always wanted access to the mind of a terrorist to see how they think. I didn't suspect it would be my own mind I got to study. I think I'll write a book about it but I'm sure it will be seen as propaganda probably by everyone on both sides.

gspn · Oct 23, 2013

Wow...they are gonna crap when they come to my house.

Lethal Threat · Oct 23, 2013

DHS

And they are right, they may be terrorist. Who are we to discount the integrity and knowledge of the DHS anyway.

Mauserguy · Oct 23, 2013

I've always worked hard, paid my taxes, done my jury duty and even donated blood on occassion and now I may be a terrorist. Gee, thanks DHS.
Mauserguy

gspn · Oct 23, 2013

Mauserguy said:
I've always worked hard, paid my taxes, done my jury duty and even donated blood on occassion and now I may be a terrorist. Gee, thanks DHS.
Mauserguy

I'll be watching you Mauserguy...the most suspicious person is the one who always tries to fit in...you're normal...a little TOO normal...

MErl · Oct 23, 2013

ok, the PDF release linked to there http://info.publicintelligence.net/DHS-FBI-Weapons.pdf has this as the meat:

Possible Indicators of Criminal Weapons Possession Related to Terrorism
The following activities could indicate attempts to stockpile large quantities of weapons or explosive materials for use in an attack. Depending on context, time, location, personal behaviors, and other indicators persons who attempt to acquire explosive materials or precursors should be reported to appropriate authorities.

Illegal possession of firearms (rifles shotguns, pistols, and military grade firearms) and ammunition.

Possession of explosives such as IEDs (including rockets, grenades, pipe bombs, and other homemade explosives) and other destructive devices; and

Dangerous objects artfully concealed at security screening checkpoints or in areas where weapons are not allowed.

Constitutional activities should not be reported in a SAR or Information Sharing Environment (ISE) SAR absent articulable facts and circumstances that support the source agency’s suspicion that the behavior observed is not innocent, but rather reasonably indicative of criminal activity associated with terrorism, including evidence of pre operational planning related to terrorism. Race, ethnicity, national origin, or religious affiliation should not be considered as factors that create suspicion (although these factors may be used as specific suspect descriptions).

Note the last paragraph.

(if someone has the link for that pdf directly from a gov agency it would be good to post to be sure it is real)

Fast Frank · Oct 23, 2013

I see clear logic in their thinking.

"Terrorist like to have weapons, so if you have weapons you might be a terrorist".

So, if that's true, then this is true as well for the same reason:

"Ducks like to swim, so if you like to swim you might be a duck".

Brilliant.

I wonder how the millions of people that go to the beach every year feel about our government thinking they are ducks.

I bet they feel the same as the millions of people that have weapons. They feel like normal Americans doing normal American things.

medalguy · Oct 23, 2013

So if terrorists have large quantities of guns and ammo, then it follows that possession of large quantities of guns and ammo makes one a terrorist. In that case, following that reasoning, then isn't it correct that if terrorists are muslims, then being a muslim makes one a terrorist? No? That's the same line of (un)reasoning DHS is putting forth here. Sad.

OARNGESI · Oct 23, 2013

some suicide bombers carry backpacks too.

easy · Oct 23, 2013

Firearm and ammunition stockpiling ARE NOT indicators of terrorism and criminal activity.

Unless of course you are the government.

lobo9er · Oct 23, 2013

If someone can put a link to actual DHS website that would be great I did quick search and couldn't find it. Before we start writing our senator and what not it maybe better we have some facts from legit sources.

hso · Oct 23, 2013

You might want to work back to the source instead of trusting someone else to interpret the information for you.

http://info.publicintelligence.net/DHS-FBI-Weapons.pdf

(U) Possible Indicators of Criminal Weapons Possession Related to Terrorism

...

(U//FOUO) Constitutional activities should not be reported in a SAR or Information Sharing Environment (ISE) SAR absent articulable facts and circumstances
that support the source agency’s suspicion that the behavior observed is not innocent, but rather reasonably indicative of criminal activity associated with
terrorism, including evidence of pre operational planning related to terrorism. Race, ethnicity, national origin, or religious affiliation should not be considered as
factors that create suspicion (although these factors may be used as specific suspect descriptions).

flphotog · Oct 23, 2013

The DHS has been an evil joke since day one and has only gotten worse over time. We need a real president who will rein it in or better yet do away with it completely.

blue_ridge · Oct 23, 2013

"DHS says people with handguns, rifles, and shotguns may be terrorists"

And people with cars might be Nascar drivers...

HexHead · Oct 23, 2013

We might be terrorists? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

SouthernBoy · Oct 23, 2013

"Anyone able to clarify what "illegal possession of large amounts of ammunition" is?"

I don't have a clue about what they mean with this statement. In my state, there is no limit on the amount of ammunition one can have.

rodregier · Oct 23, 2013

symbolic logic - fallacy of affirming the consequent :-(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent

Arguments of the same form can sometimes seem superficially convincing, as in the following example:

If I have the flu, then I have a sore throat.
I have a sore throat.
Therefore, I have the flu.

But having the flu is not the only cause of a sore throat since many illnesses cause sore throat, such as the common cold or strep throat.

Logical fail for DHS.

stevelyn · Oct 24, 2013

Is there anyone here that really did not think that at the inception of DHS that it would be turned inward on us as an internal security apparatus?

I remember back in the day people on this very board and a couple others that said we were the tinfoil hatters and that DHS was need to keep us saaaaaaaaafe and that it could never be misused against us.

Outlaw Man · Oct 24, 2013

How many of pur founding fathers would be classified as terrorists by this definition?

DHS says people with handguns, rifles, and shotguns may be terrorists

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