12 Gauge 2 3/4" Ammunition for Defense/ Hunting

Preferred defense and Hunting load for 12 gauge.


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For those of you using the Federal with FC wad in 00 buck for HD- I'm curious as to your choice : Not that its wrong, I was just under the impression that the FC wad was more beneficial for long range use.... am I missing something ?

Shotguns are the go-to long guns here. We live in a rural area on several acres, it's 51 yards from the front door to the gate across the driveway, and another 100 yards out to the road from the gate. So potentially, longer range than across the room IS a consideration.

And at 30 feet, it doesn't much matter what buckshot load/choke you use...
 
Looks to me like you would be in a world of hurt even at 60 feet let alone 15 !...............
Hurt, and effectively stopping a threat are two entirely different things. The first three inches of ballistic gel are equivalent to the elasticity of human skin. That's why the FBI minimum standard is twelve inches penetration in calibrated ballistic gel. Even at close range bird shot makes nasty looking wounds, but they're only superficial surface wounds. Bird shot is for birds.
 
303tom, that's 8 not 9. Also, try shooting a mammal with said combo. Won't work too well.
 
Low-recoil slugs for HD.
3 inch 00B for hiking.
Whatever is appropriate for the hunt.
 
I don't hunt with buckshot anymore. For hd any buckshot down to no. 4 will work if the distance isn't too far.
 
The Firearms Tactical Institute report recommends #1 Buck

For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.

Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances.

A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma. In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm
 
The Firearms Tactical Institute report recommends #1 Buck

Yeah, so did the instructor in the first hunter safety class I ever had, back in the 1970s. Problem is, I have yet to find a barrel that will pattern #1 worth a darn, even in 40 years of looking. I have heard there are barrels that do well with #1 - I just haven't found one.

And I will take patterns over pellet count any day...
 
The beauty of the shotgun is to not be limited on ammo.
I stock slugs, 00 buck, #2 buck, #4 buck, #6 steel shot, 7 1/2 shot and #8 shot.

And that's just in 12 gauge 2 3/4" shells.
 
Hurt, and effectively stopping a threat are two entirely different things. The first three inches of ballistic gel are equivalent to the elasticity of human skin. That's why the FBI minimum standard is twelve inches penetration in calibrated ballistic gel. Even at close range bird shot makes nasty looking wounds, but they're only superficial surface wounds. Bird shot is for birds.
Do you have a clear 60 foot shot inside your house ?..............
 
Do you have a clear 60 foot shot inside your house ?..............
That's completely irrelevant, because even at 10 feet small bird shot like you're recommending won't even penetrate seven inches. Any load capable of stopping an attacker is going to penetrate multiple layers of drywall.
 
I saw the link the first time. Post a summary please. If you're trying to correlate drywall penetration to penetrate in ballistic gel, there is no correlation. What exactly are you trying to prove?
 
I have 2-3/4 #4 buckshot in my HD shotgun because most of the tests I've seen indicate it's "just enough". I've been tempted to load bird shot as the first round to minimize the possibility of over-penetration through walls and it's likely to stop the average intruder from advancing plus they'll surely seek medical attention and get caught. However, I'm concerned I may not get a second shot if needed. I might stay with #4 for the first round or two and change to #1 or #0 though. I really wish folks would stop making me think... it hurts too much.
 
I might stay with #4 for the first round or two and change to #1 or #0 though

Wouldn't you want to use #1 or #0 first since they are more effective at stopping an advance than #4 ?

If I could, I'd use a 10ga loaded with #1 Buck to increase my chances of stopping a threat immediately. I certainly would feel better with that setup if faced with an attacker.

Seems to be an error in logic ramping up from smaller shot to larger shot
 
Wouldn't you want to use #1 or #0 first since they are more effective at stopping an advance than #4 ?

If I could, I'd use a 10ga loaded with #1 Buck to increase my chances of stopping a threat immediately. I certainly would feel better with that setup if faced with an attacker.

Seems to be an error in logic ramping up from smaller shot to larger shot
As I alluded to in my previous post, I do have some concern about over-penetration. I'm in a semi-rural environment with neighbors just a few hundred feet away in many directions. Most of them have young children. I don't know if I could live with myself if I accidentally seriously injured one of them with stray projectiles while saving my own neck. Don't misunderstand... I will defend myself. I just want to minimize the possibility of harming innocent bystanders.

RE #4 buckshot: Most tests I've seen show this to be "enough" most of the time.

EDIT: I should add that my answer/vote (#4 buck) is based on defense (home defense) only. Partly because I don't hunt and partly because that part of the question was too ambiguous to answer.
 
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I would normally say 00 buck like the majority. I voted 000 buck simply because that is what I have on hand right now and after testing it I found it acceptable for my use. The patterns out of my coach gun are pretty good and the effects on targets are devastating. I'm sure there are better grouping loads but this is what I have and I am satisfied with it. 8 .36 caliber balls hitting at once is pretty impressive. For hunting I would choose specific loads for specific prey though. Slugs for deer, 7/8oz loads for doves, etc.
 
I answered this unclear and somewhat silly "defense/hunting (game type/weight and range unspecified)" as if it for just "defense".

My favorite defense load is a hot 15-pellet plated 00 load in a 3". I usually use winchester Double-X Magnum.

Now what are you hunting? Deer? Rabbit? Coyote? Birds?

Mike
 
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/02/robert-farago/shotgun-penetration-with-various-rounds/

#8 Birdshot - 4.5"

#5 Birdshot - 8"

#4 Birdshot - 6.5"

#2 Birdshot - 9"

#1 Birdshot - 9.5"

Lead BB - 12.5"

#4 Buck - 14.5"

#4 Buck Magnum - 15.5"

#1 Buck - 16.5"

Foster Slug - 27"

Brenneke Slug - 26"

Note:

The nose design of these slugs is such that very controlled expansion occurs with the slug retaining 97% of it’s original mass. The slight expansion and geometry of the expanded head are such that as the slug travels through target media it cuts a larger diameter wound tract. As compared to most regular foster styled slugs cast/swagged from soft lead, the brennekes are manufactured from a harder alloy that largely accounts for the slug holding together better at the higher velocities.

When pushed in the neighborhood of 1600 fps, the softer lead slugs tend to deform significantly; losing their penetrating potential as the slug either expands so much as to present huge cross sectional area or breaks up into smaller, less efficient fragments. As the brennekes hold together better, they are a more appropriate slug when deep penetration in dangerous game is required.
 
Slugs really over penetrate. Years ago I shot up an old house/hunting cabin that was going to be burned by the fire department.
It was built to code and the slugs went in one side and out the other unless they hit a ceramic bathroom fixture.
They even went straight through the hot water heater, which was empty.

Years ago my dad shot a wild dog after he got back from bird hunting. A boring low brass shot shell packed with 7-1/2 or 8 put a hole in the dogs chest from 10 to 15 feet away. Killing the dog as effectively as buck shot. Had it been #9 instead 7-1/2 or 8 I don't think the dog would have noticed the difference.
 
We've never had a home break in, but last time we checked out a loud noise on the porch, there was a 300 lb black bear. It ran off and I don't intend to do bears any harm, but if I have to use the shotgun its because I need a slug. Slugs tend to be more precise for me on the range as well. No spread and I know with the Brennekes that the wad will be attached to the slug. That said I am fond of the plain old Remington 00 buckshot as well. I like the wax seals on the crimp.
 
I know of no one who really enjoys being a juror. That said years ago I was a juror on a murder 1 trial where I lived. Victim was hit twice with a load of #8 shot from a 12 guage pump. Both wounds appeared to be lethal in autopsy photos. Saying bird shot is not lethal because of limited penetration in gel is in my limited experience not real life.

blindhari
 
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