What's Your Favorite J Frame??

LOL... must be why they have been in production for over 63 years and are still one of S&W's best sellers.

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That does not make it good and glossing over its failings does no good. There are much better solutions available today. Tradition is a powerful force and people get suckered into the J-Frame when they really need a Model 10 with four inch barrel (or similar gun).

Back on topic...if forced into it, I'd get a Model 60 with 5" barrel. This will make it easier to shoot.

That does not make it good and glossing over its failings does no good... Tradition is a powerful force and people get suckered into the J-Frame

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Your OPINION. Your entitled to it just like everyone else. I've personally carried one as a part of my employment since 1977 (both on and off duty). See NO NEED to change at this point.

M&P 340. XS Dot night sight. CT 405 Grips. 13.3 ounces .38 spl - .357 Magnum.

tomrkba said:

That does not make it good and glossing over its failings does no good. There are much better solutions available today. Tradition is a powerful force and people get suckered into the J-Frame when they really need a Model 10 with four inch barrel (or similar gun).

Back on topic...if forced into it, I'd get a Model 60 with 5" barrel. This will make it easier to shoot.

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Everything has a shortcoming or two.

A 5" J-frame might be easier to shoot, but harder to conceal and draw.

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I know it's a K-frame but I love to carry my model 65. I think the 3" bbl is the perfect length for the K-frames.
My practice ammo is a hand load using the 148 grain hollow base wad cutter. With a two hand grip 6 shot groups will make one ragged hole in a paper target at twenty five feet.
With full power magnum loads they will perform almost as good if I do my part.
It's not a pocket gun but it hides pretty well in a good holster.

David,

You mentioned your Model 60, 3 inch, as being one of your favorites. My Model 36-1 has the 3 inch heavy barrel. It does make a difference on the range. I've found accuracy to be about the same with the shorter barreled guns, but the heavy barrel and longer sight radius really tames the recoil and gives you a quicker sight picture. The older blued gun does seem to have a little better trigger to me.

My Model 60-9 has been a real performer - the wife has laid claim to it. it's never a bad thing when your wife shares your favorite hobby.

One of my all time favorites is the Model 649. I just like the lines of the gun. Conceals easy and shoots great. Mine is a 1985 first year production of the SS model.

Snubbies are plenty accurate and excellent for their intended purpose. They are dead simple to operate without any safetys, slides, gadgets or widgets to operate. They're available in several of the best self defense calibres ever invented. Their smaller magazine capacity is of little or no disadvantage. I no longer own any revolvers with barrels greater than 4 inches and most are either 2 or 3 inch. The snubby has been around even before Colt popularised it about 1926 and there is a reason they're still going strong. They're accurate, sturdy, concealable, powerful, dependable, and shootable from almost any position even pushed up against an adversary or from inside a pocket.

None. Snubby J-Frames completely suck at all things except concealment. They especially suck in the recoil department. If I were forced into it, I would get a J Frame with five inch barrel. The four and five inch barrels work so much better, and capacity is so low, that the snubby is a waste of time. I also dislike the Ruger SP101 for many reasons, but even the version with 2 1/4" barrel is superior to a J-Frame with 1 7/8" or 2" barrel.

If you need a small gun, get a small semi-auto in 9mm or 380. The guns are usually easier to shoot and have higher capacity (but typically only one or two extra shots...which are statistically important).

This is my small revolver and I am not fond of the three inch barrel.

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Well, your opinion is noted.

Many people carry and shoot j-frames pretty well. IIRC, the M642 is S&W's best seller, year over year. If you do a search, you might find that many people can shoot a j-frame very well...as in, 50 to 100 yards well.

FWIW, I am not necessarily a big j-frame proponent. I've owned a bunch of them, from steel .38s to Scandium .357s. I don't shoot any of them particularly well...but there are a lot of folks that do...and I am not willing to dismiss that, just because I cannot match it.

Perhaps you could learn something from this.

S&W Model 60-4 (first version of the 60 approved for +P), though my 442 gets carried more often ...

M&P 360 is a joy to carry and for me it has proven easy to shoot well out to about 15 yards.

I carry an old Model 36 daily. It hides well, and is a .38 Special. Works for me.

None. Snubby J-Frames completely suck at all things except concealment. They especially suck in the recoil department. If I were forced into it, I would get a J Frame with five inch barrel. The four and five inch barrels work so much better, and capacity is so low, that the snubby is a waste of time. I also dislike the Ruger SP101 for many reasons, but even the version with 2 1/4" barrel is superior to a J-Frame with 1 7/8" or 2" barrel.

If you need a small gun, get a small semi-auto in 9mm or 380. The guns are usually easier to shoot and have higher capacity (but typically only one or two extra shots...which are statistically important).

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No thanks, why would I want something that holds more ammo but is very likely to malfunction or, depending on the situation, limp wristed? You also mentioned recoil, have you actually fired any of the pocket autos that are about the same size as a J Frame? You've got your opinion, I've got mine.

I'd also like to see those statistics showing that one or two extra shots are "statistically important".

Model 37, bought new in 1978, ever faithful companion.
Stu

Okay, fine.

Obviously, if you feel comfortable carry a J-Frame, carry it. I certainly will not turn down your help in a gun fight. But do not try to gloss over the deficiencies of the platform.

No thanks, why would I want something that holds more ammo but is very likely to malfunction or, depending on the situation, limp wristed? You also mentioned recoil, have you actually fired any of the pocket autos that are about the same size as a J Frame? You've got your opinion, I've got mine.

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A modern semiauto is just fine. I have fired many pocket semiautos in 9mm and 380 and they're just fine. They are not as snappy as my 442 with 38 Special +P Speer Gold Dots.

Many people carry and shoot j-frames pretty well.

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Stop with the revolver love BS. I do not see a rash of consistent and accurate slow or rapid J Frame fire on the local ranges and in classes. What I do see is large groups with consistent vertical stringing (recoil anticipation) and indications of poor trigger control. These folks would benefit from a Model 10 with four inch barrel. In several cases, I showed them how to shoot with one of my N Frames and they improved due to a bit of coaching and the longer sight radius.

Many people carry and shoot j-frames pretty well. IIRC, the M642 is S&W's best seller, year over year. If you do a search, you might find that many people can shoot a j-frame very well...as in, 50 to 100 yards well.

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What I see on the range is three, five and seven yard shooting. Just because Bob Munden and Jerry Miculek did it does not mean the average shooter does it. Such shots require a high level of skill that is not present in the population. Again, what I see are consistent shooting problems that are persistent because the shooter does not train (with a revolver instructor) and does not practice consistently.

Dframe Snubbies are plenty accurate and excellent for their intended purpose. They are dead simple to operate without any safetys, slides, gadgets or widgets to operate. They're available in several of the best self defense calibres ever invented. Their smaller magazine capacity is of little or no disadvantage. I no longer own any revolvers with barrels greater than 4 inches and most are either 2 or 3 inch. The snubby has been around even before Colt popularised it about 1926 and there is a reason they're still going strong. They're accurate, sturdy, concealable, powerful, dependable, and shootable from almost any position even pushed up against an adversary or from inside a pocket.

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Ah, yes, the imaginary pocket shooting advantage. So much for using your sights for every shot. How many people train this? People do not do hundreds of reps from the pocket to get it right. Determining what horizonal means for a revolver takes work under normal conditions. You deserve prison time if you take a shot from a pocket and hit another a bystander (NYPD is apparently exempt).

The rest of your justification is almost as silly. Stop and think about it for a bit. There are many semiautos that are as easy to use and do not have the complicated reloading sequence required of the revolver. I already covered accuracy as dictated by skill. If you actually trained, you would know that it is easy to press a semiauto on the adversary and back up a quarter inch before firing (try it with Simunitions in SouthNarc's ECQC class since those guns are exceptionally sensitive--not that you will attend ECQC). The "best caliber ever invented" argument is also worthless since 38 Special is known to be on the bottom of the power scale for defense. Velocity doesn't even come close to Speer Gold Dot 9mm out of a four inch barrel (my G19 chronographed at 124's at 1150; Speer shows 985 FPS for 38 Special on their site). You are not going to get 1450 FPS out of 357 Mag from a 1 7/8" barrel--be happy with ~1000-1200 depending upon bullet weight. This is 9mm territory.

The paper showing the statistical significance of the sixth shot are here on The High Road in one of the mega threads on the topic.

I am all for revolvers and my current favorite is the Ruger GP100. However, I think we need to have some honesty in our conversations regarding the revolver as a defensive tool. Like it or not, the platform has been eclipsed by modern semiautomatic designs. Rather than exaggerate the positives of the revolver, we should address its deficiencies with good training designed to mitiate them as much as possible. This means mastering Ayoob's reloading technique, lots of dry firing, practicing CQB techniques and mastering shooting to 25 yards. Vic Stacy ran into a gun fight with criminal armed with a rifle with only six rounds (and passed his AR-15 on the way!) and prevailed with five hits at 65 yards. But, he did mention he left one shot in the chamber in case the felon closed in because he had no reload. This was poor tactics on his part, but he won anyway.


MODS: If you want to break this out into a new thread, please do so. A good title would be "Honesty in Revolver Advocacy as a Defensive Weapon" or similar.

tomrkba, I think you dismiss the J-frame too easily.

I actually prefer autos to revolvers. I shoot them better, I like the higher capacity and I've owned a number of them that are pretty much as reliable as any revolver I've ever met. I've carried a few autos as well...in fact, I'm carrying one right now. But an Airweight J-frame is the 21st Century Derringer. It's the little gun you have with you when you need to back up your big gun or when you can't carry your big gun. It's a "get off me" gun for close quarters, enough EDC gun for the vast majority of people who are not subject to frequent dangerous conditions. And, yes, there are numerous small autoloaders available these days that are smaller and more powerful than the J-frame but those that are (pocket nines and forties) are no easier to shoot well and often have reliability issues that need to be addressed before they can be depended upon.

Autoloaders have proven themselves and, for the most part, have replaced revolvers for most people. But there are still valid reasons to own and carry revolvers, the J-frame Smith being the first choice of many. That's why it continues to be popular with shooters, even those of us who prefer the autoloader.

These preoposterous arguments against snubbies have become a bore. One simply can not reason a person out of a base predjudice using logic. I'm done here.

Gotta realize it's the internet. Trying to convince someone who already knows it all, and is anonymous, is similar to Columbus telling his naysayers the world was not flat. Modern does not necessarily make older obsolete or ineffective. This is not a discussion likely to change anyone's opinion.

I would suspect that most who've posted in this thread -- those of us who are fond of the J-frames -- are quite well aware of the limitations of the platform.

If I were the original poster, I might just be a little offended by someone coming into my thread and pooping in it by lecturing us all on the "deficiencies of the platform."

I should add the Model 37 behind my Model 60 and 442 ...

A 642 with action work and a set of CT Lasergrips, for EDC.

For a kit gun, a 3" 36 with adjustable sights.

When the 360 M&P 357 scandy J frame come out I just had to have one. I've had it for several years now and I still haven't shot any 357s out of it. If I could do it over again I'd get the 442 moon clip model and save about 250 bucks. So I did the next best thing--I sent the cylinder to Pinnacle High Performance, he machined it for moon clips; he did a perfect job, I use TK Custom moon clips, that 5 pack of 38 +Ps drops in the cylinder just as smooth as 45 acp moon clips do in a 625 Smith. There are no better moon clips than TK Customs! If your considering a J frame take a close look at the 442 moon clip model (you can shoot 38s in the gun with or without the moon clips). If you have a J frame, consider having your cylinder machined for moon clips, it is a luxury.

Tomrkba, the OP just wanted to know what your favorite j-frame was, if you hate them, then don't post, now if he had asked what the pros/cons of them where then, a post such as yours would have been of more use to the OP.

My favorite was my Model 60 .357 magnum. A fun range toy that I could manage to inch groups with at 10 meters double action. Long gone with the ban on short barreed guns here in Australia.
As I've gotten older I've come to appreciate blued steel and walnut, so a 4 inch barreled .32 S&W long Regulation Police is something I keep an eye out for. If I can find one it will be my new 'favorite' ( and only) J frame, sitting alongside my N frame Highway Patrolman and my K frame Model 18.

A lot of 638 lovers here, count me among the many. Mine has glow in the dark sight paint applied (day glow orange and green) and a set of crimson trace 405's. I find it a nifty little package. I also find it much easier to carry than my Glock 19, 36 or SP101 which I also love.

I do have a Kahr CM9 which shares pocket duty with the 638, but with either or, I never feel undergunned. I shoot my guns a lot and often and while I am not as tactical as some, I keep my head on swivel and do my best to avoid issues before they arise. That plus being armed at all I feel puts me in a better survival bracket than many and it is all I have time to prepare for in my busy life. Kudos to those who can do more, I hope one of you will be getting my back when things go sideways.

My Model 36 Chief Special..........saved my arse twice.

I've owned a number of "J" Frame revolvers over the years: 442, 642, Model 60 Ladysmith, 940, and a 640-1 chambered for .357 Magnum / .38 SPL and it's a "Pre-Lock".
I love the gun for the simple reason of it's shootability and versatility. I mainly carry it as a Back Up Gun these days as for roughly the same size and weight, I can carry a 9MM polymer gun with 3 times the ammo and for these days where there are multiple assailants, well, it just works. The other reason is, the gun is easily replaceable. I can go to my shop and have another configured just like it in about 15 minutes. The 640? Nope. Not only are these hard to find, but to find one again with my trigger pull that is pre-lock? It's possible with some time and money.

What I like about it is the weight. Yeah, it hampers it for carry just a bit, but I carry it either in an IWB holster, or in a pocket holster so it's generally decent. What I HATE to do with those airweight "helium" specials is to shoot them. THAT is why I no longer have a 642, a 442, etc. They're just annoying to shoot. The 640 is a joy to shoot .38 SPL rounds out of, and makes .357 Magnum tolerable. For those that have a 340 Airweight in .357 Magnum? I salute you.

It sounds like someone hating on J frames can't shoot them well....

Comparing ballistics from a 4" barreled 9mm to a 1 7/8ths" barreled .357 is glaringly biased.

Due to recent physical issues, I carried a 442 for a bit. Soooooo light, it's easy to carry. Almost to the point of forgetting it's there. Wanting more than five shots, I slipped a 642 in the pocket. Speed strip in the watch pocket could feed either one.

I was surprised how easy it was to carry TWO of them. The J-frame lends itself to an easier draw from the pocket than the .380's and launches a heavier bullet if needed.

There are a few things to do to enhance the guns shootability, but that's another thread.