22 LR Solution - RAISE PRICES THROUGH THE ROOF

I don't know what is worse....

I've been to at least 20 different Walmarts and other big box stores as well as quite a few local gun shops since this all started and I've yet to see "real" .22LR ammo for sale. Is this better than seeing a full shelf for $45 a brick of bulk packs or $12 for 50 CCI Minimags yet find them online for the same price from a guy named Billy Bob or whomever?

I think I'd rather see it at that price on the shelves because if I really needed a box I'd know where to get it. I don't need any .22LR right now since I had enough for my needs thru this shortage. However, there are a lot of people buying it at these ridiculous prices because they keep listing it at these prices.

I know that the real shooting public won't pay the super high prices and it would only be a matter of time before that $45 box goes "on sale" for $35 and then $25 when they stop moving them.

I'd rather see the factory get the "extra" profit instead of Billy Bob or some greedy (but to be fair, rightful) middle man. They could use this extra profit to give employees bonuses for their 24/7 production and maybe some equiptment upgrades or repair. I believe that if the producers got the "extra" profit that we (buyers) would benefit in the long run.

Right now Billy Bob and his 6 cousins are doubling and tripling their money (why not? It's a free economy) but since it has been proven that a small handful of people will pay this high price I feel it should go to the producer until supply and demand equalizes and we find the "new" everyday low price. As it stands, Billy Bob gets the extra profits because he has the time to stand in line at his local big box store with his family because that has now become a well paying job for him and them.

We'd all jump at the chance to double or triple our money if we could but we seem to put other things in priority like a full time job or family responsibilities. I don't begrudge Billy Bob for cashing in on this short-lived influx of income but, to me, if someone is going to make this money I'd rather it go to the guys making it, not the guys scalping it. That's just my opinion.

Maybe the suppliers should stop shipping 22l until they get a months supply or more loaded. Then send it out all at once and it would flood the market.

The way to stop hoarders, flippers and gougers is to limit the number of boxes they can buy.

I've read too many stories of a store finally getting in a boatload of ammo and then let ONE guy buy it all. Don't worry, that guy will be be happy to sell you some at the next gunshow.....at inflated prices.

If you limit it to 1-2 boxes until supply catches up, the flippers will have to make too many trips to buy enough ammo to make it worth their while.

but I don't understand how someone rationalizes paying too much for something where the raw resources, materials, manufacturing, labor and shipping costs don't even merit it.

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How do you know that? Besides, you left out the main reason a business is in business - profit, without which it can't stay open. My wife's company has seen their health insurance go up every year for the past three years because of a law that hasn't even gone into effect yet - the point being, there are a LOT of costs most folks do not either know about or add in to the final cost of a product. Marketing costs are huge, salaries/insurance/taxes have all gone up, etc., etc..........

But just like gas prices, these products should be priced at market demand pricing - high for a little while, but available to those who truly need to get some

Limits have been in place for almost a year now on 22LR at most (all?) retailers, but it does not work.

I just can't imagine paying that much for 22LR, and don't know why anyone else would either. I guess I'll just ration the stuff I have and hope that the market will stabilize before I need more.

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There ARE folks who have a large discretionary budget and do not care what it costs if they want to do or buy something. Those folks buy luxury cars like Mercedes and Cadillac, they own large homes with pools and manicured lawns, they don't drink cheap beer or vacation at a Motel 6. And that is their choice to do or not do anything of that ilk, including spending that amount on .22 ammo. If you had a young child who was promised a .22 for Chrostmas/birthday/good report card, whatever and that time came, but you had no ammo, would you disappoint that child or suck it up, buy the ammo at that time (maybe just not as much), so they could have that memory?

The two major things in business - location, location, location, and timing, timing, timing is what allows these guys to proliferate because the chains were pricing their inventory too low

You have it exactly 100% backwards and upside down. I wrote exactly the opposite of what you are accusing me of.

You wrote “'price gougers', babies, scarcity -> hoarding -> price scalping -> scarcity.

Raise prices by a multiple of 4 times (to reflect demand), and you'll see people who have a NEED actually buying the ammo.”

Who determines if I really NEED ammunition?

And how many rounds?

In what calibers?

With price controls you are putting the item out of the reach of the poor and creating a instant black market. You are simply deciding which groups contribute enough in your opinion to be allowed to defend, hunt and enjoy the same rights as the rich.

When one man or group of men have the authority to determine the needs of the others it is elitism.

Who determines if I really NEED ammunition?

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You do, by putting your cash on the counter.

With price controls you are putting the item out of the reach of the poor and creating a instant black market.

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The only price controls in place now are the ones keeping retail prices artificially low. How's that working out?

You don't seem to know what a "price control" really is, or how "need" is defined in the context of 100-level economics.

The whole point is if you raise the price of 22LR 4x, demand for it at that price point will diminish. This will allow supply and demand to reach an equilibrium, where ammo is on shelves available to purchase at a price higher than many here are willing to pay.

And if you "need" it (ie. are willing to pay the market equilibrium price), it is available for you to purchase at that price point.

With price controls you are putting the item out of the reach of the poor and creating a instant black market.

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Its already what we have.

We'd all jump at the chance to double or triple our money if we could but we seem to put other things in priority like a full time job or family responsibilities.

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Oh really? I have a stash of .22's that I happened to purchase before this madness started, much of it long before. It was all purchased because it was on sale, much of it in the $5 to $6 dollars a brick range. I have not tried to sell any of it, however I have given some of it away to jr. shooters.

What kind quantity of am I speaking of? 30,000 to 40,000 rounds. Did I buy it to hoard, hardly, just bought it because it was on sale and I do use it.

So....ammo prices should be even higher? Despite no rise in the cost of production?

Some of us would never be able to shoot again. (Some of us find it hard enough to do as it is).

And if you "need" it (ie. are willing to pay the market equilibrium price), it is available for you to purchase at that price point.

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I think the word "need" is wrong.

The act of shooting in most cases is not a need, it is enjoyment. I know many who are competitors, but they have not the "need" to compete.

No one "needs" to go on an afternoon drive with the family nor do they "need" to go out for dinner, but they do for the enjoyment.

I think the word "need" is wrong.

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Agree, which is why I defined "need" and even put the word in quotation marks.

So....ammo prices should be even higher? Despite no rise in the cost of production?

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Yes...because economics.

Supply equals demand. Demand spikes and outstrips supply (current situation). Economics theory dictates prices rise, which causes demand to fall, until it meets supply. Once supply outstrips demand, prices fall, which causes demand to increase, until once again supply and demand meet equilibrium.

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We'd all jump at the chance to double or triple our money if we could but we seem to put other things in priority like a full time job or family responsibilities.

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Oh really? I have a stash of .22's that I happened to purchase before this madness started, much of it long before. It was all purchased because it was on sale, much of it in the $5 to $6 dollars a brick range. I have not tried to sell any of it, however I have given some of it away to jr. shooters.

What kind quantity of am I speaking of? 30,000 to 40,000 rounds. Did I buy it to hoard, hardly, just bought it because it was on sale and I do use it.

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So, how did what you say relate to what you quoted me saying? I said people would stand in line to get a chance to double or triple their money, if they could. You bought yours well before there were these lines. Nothing was said about hoarding. Where does your point figure into this? You could 10x your money if you wished to but you choose not to. So?

You do, by putting your cash on the counter.

Exactly. Just as it has with firearms and high capacity magazines or any other merchandise

The only price controls in place now are the ones keeping retail prices artificially low. How's that working out?

Just as it should. You probably been missing out on the 22 ammunition available especially on the Internet. MidwayUSA had bucket of Remington 22 LR for sale last week. But then it is more fun for some to complain on the wire than to spend the time and energy to improve the situation.

But never fear. As I said as long as there is the Internet there will be plenty of folks that will complaining and forecasting doom. Meanwhile some of us that came up short or shorter than we like will take advantage and add to their inventory.

So, how did what you say relate to what you quoted me saying?

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So, How? Simply because I did not even make any attempt to double or triple my money by selling any of my stash.

I said people would stand in line to get a chance to double or triple their money, if they could.

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I'm retired, I very easily "could", I have a sales license to conduct retail sales legally. But again I do not, why, see no reason to treat my fellow sportsman in such a way.

Simple isn't it?

I don't get how the current retail prices are artificially low. They are what they are based on the margin added to the retailers' cost. Same goes for the manufacturer. What is currently occurring is a bubble. Inflating prices in response to a bubble is a bad idea. Look what it did to the housing market. The manufacturers are not working as though they don't know what to do. They have seen this before as have I.

The inflated prices from grabbers and flippers, I cannot simply call supply and demand pricing. If they would stop buying every last box on the shelf, where would the demand be? They are buying all of a product at a retail price, and simply saying if you want some pay triple what I did. Let's imagine if someone went to every gas station and bought every last drop of gasoline in a city, then they set up to sell it at triple $ and was the only available option to get fuel. I know that gasoline is not in the same category as 22lr, but at least it illustrates my point. I find it hard to call supply and demand when it is essentially forming a monopoly, and price fixing. Both are illegal.

ColtPythonElite said:

Raise the prices til the we quit buying and the stores flood with product and quit ordering to restock, then manufacturers can lay off employees and eventually shut the doors....sounds like a marvelous game plan.

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No,

Raise prices and other manufactures will start making .22 lr. as well as current manufactures will increase output to get in on the gravy. That will increase supply and the prices go down.

But I do wonder, the new ban on lead smelters (last one in U.S. just closed), are they having a shortage of lead wire to make .22 slugs?

Deaf

The scalpers are proving that prices are artificially low simply because they are selling the ammo at a multiple to what it sells for off the retailer's shelf.

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I'm betting they are setting on much more than they sell.

Regarding the selling price of ammo, in a normal market is it better to sell one box of an item and make $10.00 profit or is it better to sell 5 boxes of a product and $40.00 profit because its easier to sell 5 than sit on the other 4.

Winthepennant continues to explain the correct economics. The only correction I would add, is that price controls turn scarcity into. shortage. There is a difference. They do not turn scarcity into. more scarcity. They turn scarcity into shortage.

In economic terms everything is scarce. There is a not enough of anything for all of us to have everything that we could possibly want. Not even oxygen!

So when things are scarce, and everything is scarce, price sets how much you decide to buy You get to make a choice.

When price controls have their effect, shortage occurs. Shortage is when product is not available at any price! Thankfully, we still have some vestiges of free-market, so we don't have complete shortage in 22 LR. But for people like me we sort of do, because I'm not willing to hunt to find the places where it can actually be found. For most of my colleagues at the hospital, true shortage exists, they have no idea where to find it. Choices been taken away from them by the price controls.


Dictated to Siri in a very noisy McDonald's restaurant. Sorry for the bloopers.

Lets suppose for a second that prices were to increase. As of right now Ammo manufacturers are selling at a profitable margin, as are the retailers. All of the production is selling and they are humming along as a well oiled machine. Why would they raise the price in order to reduce their sales? That would be similar to throwing themselves down a steep ridge. An effort to raise prices on an emotional reaction type bubble, in order to get people to stop buying, would ultimately harm their company. An effort to due so would result in a sudden drop in demand, and also a sudden drop in income to the manufacturer and the retailer. Now with the retailer, they have x amount of stock at a higher cost, that they must ultimately take on the chin to get moved. The ammo manufacturer sees a reduction in orders and in turn income. Production is ramped down, including lay offs and reduced hours, all at their own hand. A reaction as such in response to a bubble will result in hitting a brick wall. There is nothing artificial about the current retail pricing. The only thing artificial is the demand, which is ultimately a bubble that will pop.
Same thing happened in 08 with the election of Obama. Like a light switch all 22 lr was gobbled up in an emotional reaction that resulted in a bubble. When that bubble popped, It was as though some one flipped the switch again, and suddenly overnight 22lr was back on the shelves.

I buy quality ammunition (SK Pistol match)... The price of my ammunition has not risen very much at all (about 15%)... It's the cheap stuff that is not available and jumping up in price...