9mm carry ammo...115 or 147

I don't carry a 9mm, but if I did it'd be with 147gr ammo. Less flash and blast, better chance of adequate penetration if you get good expansion. I'm a heaviest bullet for the caliber guy in general.

Only con to me is about 30% more weight in the magazine compared to 115 gr ammo.

Placement, placement, and penetration are the three most important factors in handgun effectiveness, so IMHO carry what you shoot most effectively.

We like expansion, we NEED penetration. Generally, heavier, slower bullets penetrate better, Gold Dots always seem to be at or near the top of all ballistic tests I've seen. I carry the Short Barrel ammo in my PF9. I have a couple of boxes of Ranger Ts, 115+P+ I carry in my full size S&W, seemed like a cool idea when I bought 'em, I do like Ranger Ts, if I buy them again, they will be at least the 127gr or 147s. The light weight bullets, 90, 105s the Barnes bullets are designed for DECENT expansion to allow adequate penetration. Not a bad idea for the micro nines, allow faster follow up shots.

I prefer the NATO Standard for 9mm which is the 124 gr bullet. If I had to choose between 115 and 147 I'd choose 115.

As far as the whole argument about expansion and all that goes I'm on the "we want both" argument and I have to agree that if we shoot a BG between the pockets he's probably gonna cease and desist as hastily as we can make that happen. The problem is that getting a straight on chest shot is like getting a head shot that you can count on. Not as likely as an angled shot that might need to penetrate thru a jacket, thru the upper arm, thru a jacket again, thru the ribs and a wider part of the torso thru muscle and tissue to get at the lungs, aorta, or maybe thru to the spinal cord.

I'd rather lean towards the side of more penetration than to have a 115gr fast hollow point start putting on the speed brakes between passing thru the upper arm and starting to penetrate the rib cage.

I don't think we can likely count on a "three to the chest" scenario and that gelatine tests only show the relative functionality/penetration/expansion of the various rounds tested on a level playing field. I'm not certain that any conclusive evidence of relative injuring power can be derived by comparing tests in gelatine but it's all we have short of shooting folks.

VooDoo

If I carried a 9mm it would be a... Never mind. I carry a 4" model 29, .44 magnum inside the waistband and a couple of speedloaders nearby. Go big or go home!

May be a different approach

I am not a great fan of the 9mm I do have a Glock 19 but it sits a lot .
I do prefer the heavier projectiles in most of my guns. Be it a 30-06 180 gr or 38 special 158 LSWC.
In the 9mm I trend mix magazine Heavy in first then lighter such as silvertip. Last in is a Glasier of the 3 round mixture.
MY theory is you never know what will be necessary . Penetration, expansion etc. It is not a plan for targets either.
SO what do you think about this?

Not that plan on a 9 for carry. I have a J frame for this 158 GR LSWC
Sometimes a K in .357 686 Plus 3 inch.

IBEWBULL said:

I am not a great fan of the 9mm I do have a Glock 19 but it sits a lot .
I do prefer the heavier projectiles in most of my guns. Be it a 30-06 180 gr or 38 special 158 LSWC.
In the 9mm I trend mix magazine Heavy in first then lighter such as silvertip. Last in is a Glasier of the 3 round mixture.
MY theory is you never know what will be necessary . Penetration, expansion etc. It is not a plan for targets either.
SO what do you think about this?

Not that plan on a 9 for carry. I have a J frame for this 158 GR LSWC
Sometimes a K in .357 686 Plus 3 inch.

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I'm not much for mixing up the ammunition like that in my guns. My concern with this is that when I shoot, the primary focus is putting rounds on target, where I want them to be. All else is necessarily secondary to that purpose.

Mixing ammunition like you mentioned means that I have rounds with different masses of bullets, different velocities, and different geometries to their designs.

All this means that the first couple bullets may hit at point of aim, the next may hit above or below point of aim, recoil may be different between shots, bullets of different physical shapes may not feed as well as others, etc.


Also, I ultimately would have no more selection as to terminal performance characteristics on demand than I would if I had just went with one type of ammunition: I'd be cycling through a different type of ammunition every few trigger pulls with no guarantee that any given type of ammunition would be any better suited than the next under the changing circumstances in a gun fight. Not only that, but in the actual heat of the moment I'm not very likely to be thinking: "I just shot my first three Ball rounds, next three up are Gold Dot hollowpoints, then I've got 3 85 grain TerminalShocks..."


I suppose if one feels they must do this for whatever personal reason, they could choose ammunition of the same mass and velocity which have at least demonstrated on discernable differences in reliability and accuracy on the range. This way their ammunition will at least be going where they aim, regardless of what type gets chambered.

But to mix and match to the extent you postulated? Nah...I wouldn't recommend that at all. I still recommend what I posted back in post #5.

147 grain Bonded Winchester Ranger JHP is my choice.

147 is better. more FTLBS and more penetration.

115s are better for longer range application, better velocity and less bullet drop.

I personally carry and hunt with 147gr bullets.

Not in an occupation I'm likely to ever encounter a confrontation and low chance of ever being involved in a shooting. I'd lean toward whichever one shot best in my gun. An accurate round gives me confidence I can hit my target.

Speaking as a hunter, some bullets offer better terminal ballistics than others but IME, placement and penetration outweigh paper ballistics. I would apply the same logic, as well as cost to selection of SD ammo.

Probably mentione before but, I really like Black Hills 124 grn HP

In my FN SFS HiPower, I carry a mixed load.
1 Federal 115gr 9BP in the chamber, in the mag, 2 Federal 9BP 115gr hollowpoints, followed by a Federal 115gr FMJ, then alternating loads.

The 9BP for accuracy and reliability (FMJ shape) and some expansion, the every other ball load for punching glass or other penetration requirements.
Both shoot to the same point of aim.

I carry at least 1 more 13rd mag loaded the same.

I follow the "lots of holes" philosophy

My plan is "Officer, I was scared so I kept on shooting as long as the goblin was a possible threat".

I usually carry a Kahr CW45 w/ 2 extra mags, all loaded with Federal 230 ball.

I like bigger holes.

Reliability is crucial, no bullet will stop a goblin if the gun jams.

Accuracy is crucial, a miss with a .44 Mag is worse than a vital hit with a .22LR.

I carry 135gr +P Hornady Critical Duty, and load 147gr bullets for practice.

I never cared for 115gr, but it all will work.

"Generally, heavier, slower bullets penetrate better"

I think I'm onboard with this logic. but the reason I asked earlier was partly to challenge my own assumptions. is this logic still true - if the 45-cal is fired from a very short barrel?? it would be really good for someone here to do some gelatin tests, firing the same 45 rounds, but using pistols with different barrel lengths. I think that would be educational .... at least I'd like to see it.

why assume ... when we can test and find out?

CA R

Heavier-for-caliber bullets tend to lose less velocity in a short-barreled configuration than their lighter counterparts. I think part of it is that they have less powder and lower velocity leaving more time in the barrel for the powder to burn.

147 also retain their velocity and energy better for long distance. It will drop more at 100 yds, but it will still have more steam when it gets there.

I think it depends on the bullet.

I use the 115gr Speer Gold Dot am am very satisfied.

Good expansion, weight retention and penetration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2s82NCLKQI

To IBEWBULL

I see the pot has been stirred.
Just want to mention I see you do not like carrying a 9MM
I like the .45 ACP
I also like heavy bullets. Since it gives a better chance of penetration.
I think the 38 LSWCHP is a great load. There are many hyped up gimmicks which will not do the same job.
As they say each to his own.
In the end know your gun caliber and what it can do.
SO there pops.
I will see you soon.

see this link and go to testing on 9mm luger.

www.brassfetcher.com

special thanks to Beanbag on this forum, who just shared this link as a reply to a different thread.

CA R

Depends on the season IMO. I carry 147 grain +p+ gold dots in the winter (for better penetration through multiple layers of clothing), and 115 grain +p+ federal JHP for summer loads. In cool weather, I generally pick something around 124-127 grain.

whatever said:

124 isn't locally available just yet. I am running low on hsts and i wanted to figure out the best of the locally available stuff.

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Your priority should be on what works best in your gun and on the intended target, not what is available locally. If either of those turn out to be best, fine. If not, go elsewhere or order online.

It's your life, Dude.

I don't carry my Beretta 92, but it is rotated among my home defense firearms; I have several SD loads that I use...

speer gold dot 115gr jhp & speer gold dot 147gr jhp in smaller stashes; older style federal 147gr jhp, most likely hi-shok that I got from sportsman's guide in white 50 rd boxes (larger stash); the speer gold dot 147's are in the Beretta currently

Is there ANY expanding-bullet factory-produced 9mm ammo that will not incapacitate a non-armored adult if you shoot him between the shirt pockets?

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It gets a little more complicated when the bad guy doesn't present himself like a cardboard IPSC target.

Then there's those pesky arms that always seem to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

A bit surprised by all the people with Dutch-loaded magazines.

I think really the only advantage of 9mm ball would be shooting through metal cover, and even on that a bonded JHP would do just as well.

The ogive on 9mm ball lends itself to richocets off of angled hard surfaces like auto glass.

The mixed loadings mentioned above are - in my opinion - not smart.

How on earth do you think you can plan for anything in a chaos environment. Focus on reliability and accuracy. If every round theoretically performs the same you can at least hope that they actually will in the real world. Start mixing it up and you are just trying to guess exactly how the worst day in your life is going to go.

This is almost like the other conversation involving buckshot going on currently. One individual actually said that he liked the idea of getting alot of spread because if his aim was off, he might still hit something. What if your aim is on? Presumably you could still miss right?

I suppose I could buy a bunch of different bullet weights and test them all out.

Or...

I could read the tests done by others and load my 9mm with 147gr HSTs or similar.

ETA: 147gr HSTs are 100% in my P239 and my wife's Firestar.