Trigger Job on S&W M640?

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Looking at a brand new Smith and Wesson 640 for my Wife...being DAO and according to "Internet" reviews the biggest complaint about these guns is the long, heavy trigger pull.

I thought I'd ask folks who might actually own and use one - should we consider a trigger job right out of the box on one of these (remember it's likely gonna be carried by a slight female) or is the trigger pull likely to be OK. Try it first?

Your experience and opinions from M640 owners and users is much appreciated. And Thank You!

VooDoo
 
The DA pull on a J-Frame is stiffer in general than on a larger revolver, the parts are smaller, the geometries are different, and the leverages are different.

Your wife may find the factory pull too stiff for her hand.
A good action job can smooth up the surface engagements, which can reduce friction slightly & drop the pull slightly.
If you go too far with aftermarket springs, you can take the pull down a bit, but you may compromise reliability.

My 640 is do-able for me & retains its factory trigger weight.

Try one out if you possibly can before committing.
I'd recommend a good action job in your case, but don't expect the results to be comparable to the LCR.
Denis
 
Trigger pulls can vary between individual revolvers of the same kind so it’s important to handle and try before you buy. Also with use (or dry firing) double-action trigger pulls tend to get smoother and feel lighter, although they really aren’t.

The biggest problem with small-frame revolvers is that the triggers have less leverage to rotate the hammer backwards, and lighter/small hammers require stronger springs to insure absolute reliability under all conditions. Any trigger pull job that includes weaker springs will to some degree reduce reliability. The question is, “how much reliability are you willing to give up to get a lighter pull?”

Another model you might consider is Smith & Wesson’s .38 Special Bodyguard, that supposedly has a better D.A. pull, and comes with a laser sight as standard equipment. It’s their answer to Ruger’s LCR.

If you are willing to look at the used market, be aware of the S&W model 1903 (round butt) and Regulation Police (square butt) that were made before World War Two up into the 1960’s. They were chambered in .32 S&W Long and .38 S&W. The most common barrel length is 3 ¼ inches, and they are about the same size as your Colt .32 Pocket Model. Very accurate, with recoil close to that of the Colt pistol.
 
The plastic Bodyguard can run into the same recoil problems to some degree as the LCR.
S&W can't service those older guns , ammunition for those calibers can be expensive, and the round-nosed lead bullets are much less effective in terminal performance.

Just an FYI to consider. :)
Denis
 
Well you do have some good points, but...



The plastic Bodyguard can run into the same recoil problems to some degree as the LCR.

True, but it's an alternative that should at least be looked at.

S&W can't service those older guns , ammunition for those calibers can be expensive, and the round-nosed lead bullets are much less effective in terminal performance.

Again true, but in my experience they seldom need any factory-level service.

I noticed in an earlier post that Vodoun da Vinci was handloading the .32 ACP. He could do the same with the .32 S&W Long and .38 S&W. Both of these cartridges are underloaded because they can be used in older top-break revolvers of questionable quality.

I see no way you are going to find a combination of high-performance ammunition in a small ultra-light snubby revolver that will have a recoil level that meets the requirements needed by this lady.
 
Super thanks for the advice and comments, Guys!! :)

Getting our hands on a 640 will probably mean ordering one after we have tried the option available to see if the heavier revolver solves the recoil issues...I'm pretty sure it will. We played (dry fired) with a S&W model 60 last evening that had an Apex Tactical drop in trigger kit installed and the trigger was acceptable. Not as good as the Ruger LCR but I find that particular trigger to be pretty awesome.

I think the 640 and the 60 share the same relative action as they are both J frames.

Or maybe she'll be taken with the SP101 2" to the point that we will buy one of those. She handled the Ruger SP101 and thought it would do but it is rather "tank like" compared to the S&W 60 which is why we are rolling the 640 idea around.

In any case, if we buy a 640 we'll give it a go at the range before altering the trigger as she doesn't seem to have trouble with the heavier/longer pull on the Ruger SP101 and I find it patently dreadful using the S&W model 19 and my Dan Wesson as comparisons.

VooDoo
 
Something will have to give, somewhere.

I'd also note the 1927 I-Frame Reg Police I had produced a DA trigger pull no better than a good modern J-Frame .38. :)

A current steel J-Frame S&W .38 Special with an action job and using standard velocity Nyclads may be one of the most practical compromises.

The steel weight mitigates recoil over a comparable plastic frame, the trigger won't be as good as the Ruger LCR, and the standard velocity Nyclad won't be quite as effective as a good +P HP, but the Nyclad does have a decent rep in its class.

There are also a number of grip options available for the J-Frame that can improve both fit in the hand and overall control.

When I worked with the .38 LCR, I got to know it quite well. It was the only centerfire handgun I've ever put over 5000 rounds through in about five sessions, and while I did like the trigger, I already had three S&W J-Frames in the caliber that were easier to shoot well for me, and nowhere near as unpleasant to shoot. Triggers admittedly were not as light, but the trigger wasn't the sole consideration, in my case. It may be for others.

Possibly if I hadn't had those (all pre-lock & pre-MIM), I might have kept the Ruger.

In saying this, I'm not knocking the centerfire LCR. Just saying it's not the best choice for everybody.

I also compared a .22 LR LCR side by side on the range to an alloy .22 LR Smith DA J-Frame.
The LCR was slightly more accurate, BUT that was firing both guns off a rest.
In actual real life use, a revolver with a single-action hammer option would trounce it in free-standing use for sheer accuracy.

I didn't keep that .22 LCR either, because it was not practical as either a defensive gun or a plinker/hunter, for me.
Inadequate ballistics, no single-action capability for longer distances & precision shooting.

Ruger sells a lot of LCRs, and obviously people do like 'em.
I merely point all this out to give my perspective of the gun as a defense piece.

If it works in your hands, great.
If it doesn't, there's no embarrassment in admitting it. :)
Denis
 
The steel weight mitigates recoil over a comparable plastic frame, the trigger won't be as good as the Ruger LCR, and the standard velocity Nyclad won't be quite as effective as a good +P HP, but the Nyclad does have a decent rep in its class.

For me the Ruger trigger is outstanding...probably the premier feature of the gun. That and the low/no maintenance frame/finish. We don't expect to duplicate that trigger in a Smith but have read a lot of bad stuff about the new J frame triggers right out of the box....like the TTAG review of the 640 Pro and others.

Nice to know there are options available.

She'd have bought the M60 we handled except for the hammer snag hence the potential playing of the M640 card. Plus the dang thing is stainless and good looking. So, if the added weight mitigates the recoil to the point it makes it doable with a snubbie I think the 640 will be on the to get list. I'd like to add that the Girl really isn't really all that recoil sensitive as she handles 124 gr. 9mm recoil out of a subcompact and 125 gr. .357 out of a 4"S&W M19 just fine. Her main squeeze used to be a Colt Officers ACP shooting full house 230 gr. hardball. She's not really a wimp - the LCR recoil is really just THAT bad.

I'm still stunned at the folks that say it ain't no big deal. I shoot the LCR pretty good for my first snubbie at 13.5 oz but it makes my hand numb...I can understand the differences in recoil tolerance but I really think 90% of the folks who have the LCR only shoot it 20 rounds at a time and carry it 99.99% of the time instead of practicing with it. :confused::D

VooDoo
 
My first test session with the .38 was about 150 rounds & it tore skin, as I mentioned.
That hand was sore for a couple days.

I was able to get up to 500-round test sessions, with a glove that also tore, but still didn't enjoy it. :)

I understand arthritis, it's not going to get better with age.

If you go with the 640, don't stick to the factory grips.
Get her something better that fits & helps spread out recoil & improve control.
Denis
 
If you go with the 640, don't stick to the factory grips.
Get her something better that fits & helps spread out recoil & improve control.
Denis

Absolutely! And also look at a larger K-frame snubby, such as model 10 or 15 where you can do more constructive things with the double-action; and bob off the hammer spur if necessary. Also the "10" can be found with optional 3 and 4 inch barrel lengths, and both round and square butt frames.
 
I own and sometimes carry a M640 and it's probably my favorite J frame but for the weight.

You mentioned you were worried about the DAO trigger, there are alternatives. The M649 is a Bodyguard frame revolver which has a covered hammer but can be cocked for SA shooting it you want. Of course there's the M60 with the exposed hammer but many feel there's too much a chance of catching the hammer when drawing. (I don't)
 
I have both, the 640 & 649.
The 649's oogly, but I do like the single-action capability.
Denis
 
The usual reason conventional revolvers should have the action reduced to DAO (double action only) and the hammer spur bobbed (cut off) is to eliminate the chance of it snagging while the revolver is drawn from deep cover.

A lesser reason is that after a justified shooting a lawyer can bring a civil suit for wrongful death, claiming that under stress the shooter cocked his revolver and then unintentionally touched the trigger (they describe as a "hair trigger." Sounds far fetched, but it has worked.

These are issues one has to work out for themselves.
 
The Ruger lcr in .38 hammerless has the best trigger of any s & w j frame. I like my j frames just fine, but if you're looking for a smooth short trigger the Ruger is the way to go.
 
The Ruger lcr in .38 hammerless has the best trigger of any s & w j frame. I like my j frames just fine, but if you're looking for a smooth short trigger the Ruger is the way to go.

Yeah, this inquiry/thread is a carry over from my thread about our Ruger LCR. We love it...it's our first snubbie revolver. Unfortunately it kicks like a very angry mule with standard .38. At 13.5 oz I suspect yer gonna have that.

I'm looking for options for my Wife while staying with the snubbie revolver platform 'cause she loves it and is intuitive and comfortable with everything 'cept the recoil...we are betting that a 21 - 26 oz revolver like the Colt DS or a S&W 60, 640, or 649 will tame enough of the recoil to make Mama happy.

And we all know what happens when Mama ain't happy... :what:

VooDoo
 
I haven't read the other responses so I don't know what direction this thread has taken.

Going back to the OP's original question, I have owned several S&W revolvers. Older S&Ws had excellent trigger pulls, including a 20+ year old J-frame. Newer J-frames have pretty stiff and rough trigger pulls. Of the 3 Airweights I've owned, I had action work done on two of them pretty much right away. I did shoot the guns first but then immediately took them to a custom gunmaker in my area who also does action work on revolvers. This was one of the best decisions I ever made other than buying the guns originally. I should have done the third Airweight but I never carried it so I never got around to it.

If the gunsmith who does the action work is really, really good at it, the trigger pull should be smooth but not necessarily extremely light. Given the short pull to trigger break in the J-frame S&W revolvers, the results of a good action job can feel deceptively lighter.

So, to the OP, if you have access to a really good gunsmith I would recommend getting action work done on the 640. I would shoot it first--a couple of boxes of range ammo--and do some dry firing as well. That can wear down the rough edges in the action and get it ready for the gunsmith to work magic.
 
So, to the OP, if you have access to a really good gunsmith I would recommend getting action work done on the 640. I would shoot it first--a couple of boxes of range ammo--and do some dry firing as well. That can wear down the rough edges in the action and get it ready for the gunsmith to work magic.

Excellent advice, Sir, and I will proceed exactly in this way. Thank you for the perspective and the benefit of your experience! :)

VooDoo
 
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