Probability of Bad Guy Snatching Gun

Well, if you carry concealed, no one should know you have one so snatching one before you have a chance to present it is pretty low. There was at least one recent article, however, that talked about a guy in an open-carry state that got shot when a robber snatched the guy's gun and shot him with it. But the owner was open-carrying it, which changes things.

Also, situational awareness is important. If you do have to present your gun, it should be before the BG is right in your face and you should be aware of the surroundings, in case he's got buddies sneaking up on you.

There is going to be practically zero realistic statistical data about this. Very little actual data is even available about self-defense shootings, period, and so the info on gun grabs is going to be entirely anecdotal.

There are several strategies for guarding against it which break down into the following:
1) Conceal it. They don' know it is there, so they can't know to grab it.
2) Retention holster: If you open-carry, use a holster with some sort of restraint mechanism that make it more difficult for anyone by the person wearing the gun to draw it.

(Or do both!)

Strategies and tactics are numerous:
Situational Awareness -- a good idea all around anyway.
Positioning -- Make conscious efforts to stand and sit in such a way as to position yourself between the gun and other people.
Learn retention techniques. A good trainer can show you how to resist a gun-grab.
Carry a weak-side weapon like a "get off me" knife (or even a second gun!) that you can use to violently resist if someone get their hands on your gun and tries to yank it.

What Sam1911 said.

This is why just about every holster I own has at least a thumb break for retention. Also why I prefer to conceal carry and why I don't tell manly people I own, let alone that I carry a firearm, constant scanning the area around me. I'm so paranoid that I carry a knife and a BUG on my weak side. On a side note I tend not to dress like a "gun person" so no 5.11 pants gun t-shirts, I do have a few that I ware at gun shows or events like that. In other words try to look harmless,but not helpless.

Statistically, it's very small. There is no database for this type of information that I'm aware of. I will say that the statistical likelihood of a takeaway is exponentially reduced even further with sensible carry techniques, situational awareness and proper training in deployment and retention of the handgun.

Stay frosty out there!

Logically, if that were true then bad guys and cops wouldn't bother to carry guns for the same reason.

The anti-gun position is an absurd one where only criminals and le/military are capable of using guns and citizens would automatically be weak buffoons at it.

What would I do if someone tried to grab my gun? Shoot them in the face or slam my forearm into their throat (then shoot them).

It happens. Some attacks provide no warning at all...

MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) – A 34-year-old Minneapolis man has been charged in connection with a recent incident where, without warning, he attacked another man and stole a gun that the victim had a permit for, according to police....
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/05/30/man-accused-of-stealing-gun-from-conceal-and-carry-holder/

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If you're serious about defending yourself you should learn and practice some basic hand-to-hand techniques for dealing with an attacker with a club, a knife, or even just punching or choking. It could give you the time you need to get your gun into play.

If it were so easy for a bad guy to snatch a gun from you, it would be equally easy for you to snatch it right back.

IIRC - police are shot with their own gun about a third of the time. I would have to find the reference for this but that's what I remember from some report. That is obviously not directly comparable to concealed carry types.

Several schools teach retention techniques and there are videos and books.

Concealment and not wrassling with folks might be a start.

Stephen P. Wenger has documented over the years many more bad guys having their guns taken by good guys than vice-a-versa.

Food for thought.

Video of armed robbery thwarted on a Metro bus.

We might take issue with the technique and situational awareness of the
fellow with the glasses, but not with his attitude and response.

http://www.king5.com/video?id=236508751&sec=548932

From a Insights mailing - thanks, Dave.

Tony k said:

What strategies tactics and training drills do you practice to prevent this?

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Shivworks ECQC covers this and much more.

"They say you can’t use a rifle or shotgun indoors because a bad guy will grab the barrel. Yeah? Well, he better hang on, ‘cause I’m gonna light him up and it’ll definitely be an "E" ticket ride." - Clint Smith

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Gotta love Clint

Kleanbore said:

If you draw your firearm, you will do so because it is immediately necessary--that is, you have no other choice--to defend yourself against an imminent threat of death or serious harm from the blades, bludgeons, or bullets of one or more violent criminals.

The decision to remain incapable of stopping such an attack because the attackers may also grab your weapon would seem on the face of it to be illogical and imprudent.

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Excellent point, and really, this is enough logic to abruptly and effectively end this type of discussion if it should ever come up again. It's foolish and illogical to become a willing victim based on the mere chance - however high - that an attempt to fight back will backfire.

GEM said:

IIRC - police are shot with their own gun about a third of the time. I would have to find the reference for this but that's what I remember from some report. That is obviously not directly comparable to concealed carry.

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What's overlooked in that report is......the cop had the gun in his own hand when he was "shot with his own gun."

IE; he shot himself.

Kinda changes the pertinence of that stat, doesn't it?

If you use basic caution, you should be fine. This includes not wearing clothes that will "print" your gun to the outside, keeping your side with the gun away from people, standing at the back wall in an elevator, learning basic retention skills, etc. Tell no one who doesn't need to know that you carry.

I personally don't open carry for many reasons, but if you decide to do it, get the best retention holster you can, level 3, and practice with it (unloaded) so you can easily remove the weapon when you need it.

If you have to draw your weapon, and I'm assuming it will only be to protect your or another's life from deadly physical force, don't have your gun anywhere someone else can reach it. If someone armed is coming towards you, and after being told to stop they continue, draw a mental safe line on the ground, and if they cross it, use your weapon to stop the threat before they can reach you.

A person with a knife is just as deadly as a person with a gun, and people can cover ground surprisingly fast. Be prepared to stop them before they can reach you or your weapon.

OK, got all that? Now just practice it on a regular basis.

FBI collects data.

For 2012

Weapons

Of officers killed in 2012, most (44) were killed with firearms. Of these, 32 were killed with handguns. (A breakdown of the types of weapons used in these slayings is provided in Table 27.)

3 officers had their weapons stolen.
1 officer was killed with his/her own weapon.
7 officers fired their weapons; 2 officers attempted to use their weapons.
24 officers were slain with firearms when they were 0-5 feet from the offenders.

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Most officers are uniformed on duty, and 'open carry'.

The problem with statistics about police officers is that the dynamics and social factors involved with their activities are very, very different from the armed citizen's. Most armed citizens carry concealed and don't wear a uniform. Almost infinitesimally few armed citizens will be trying to arrest/detain someone.

So aside from saying "it surely can happen" there's very little valuable insight to be gained from comparing the two.

So, according to the data Librarian posted, 43 of 44 officers shot to death in 2012 were not shot with their own guns.

Kinda puts a damper on the "1/3 killed-with-their-own" theory.

It did used to happen more often, but higher training, better equipment, and more bad guys with their own guns already have lowered that rate.

Tony k said:

Last night my mom was trying to convince me that "carrying a firearm for self defense is stupid because the only thing that's gonna happen is the bad guy is grab your gun and use it against you."

My mom hates guns, and that's whay she made that statement is such absolute terms. Sure, I understand that can happen and has happened. Rather than bicker with my own mother about guns, I figured I'd ask you all about it.

My questions are:

Does anybody know how often that actually happens in self-defense situations?

What strategies tactics and training drills do you practice to prevent this?

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No, I do not have any answers to your two questions. Perhaps some more knowledgable and experienced people on this site might be able to provide you with what you are asking for.


However, the statement by your mother is a defeatist one. If you carry ANY weapon, there will ALWAYS be a danger that someone MAY take it away from you and use it on you. People who claim this are, in my opinion, fearful of guns in general, are predispositioned to submit rather than defend themselves when attacked, or are completely ignorant with respect to what a violent assault really is and how to defend oneself.

However, that danger she is so afraid of is NOT a certain thing, as she implies.


If you carry a gun, someone could take it away and use it on you. If you carry a knife, someone could take it away. If you carry a club, someone could take it away from you. If all you have is yourself, someone could STILL take your ability to use your limbs away from you and use that against you afterwards.

The difference is that a gun can be used over distances in which knives, clubs, and other weapons cannot. Which gives you MORE options, not less.

Of course, a gun does not, by any means, make someone invulnerable or invincable. But it CAN give you a very important edge.

I tell my concealed carry students, if I had time to teach one more thing in my class, it would be retention. The focus and practice of making sure that you keep your gun and no one else can get it away from you. Anyone who tries to disarm you should be regarded as a deadly threat. You need to learn the focus of being aware of your surroundings, taking physical measures to make sure no one can disarm you, and emergency techniques to use in the event someone tries to disarm you.

The bulk of my retention technique comes from "The Book of Two Guns" by Tiger McKee.

If you draw your firearm, you will do so because it is immediately necessary--that is, you have no other choice--to defend yourself against an imminent threat of death or serious harm from the blades, bludgeons, or bullets of one or more violent criminals.

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Taking this to the logical conclusion, the opponent would then be closing the distance as you pull the trigger.

That's what Mom is missing, but her statement was meant as concern for the OP's well being. In the long run, with training and experience, she would willingly accept the notion said son would be more than competent to protect her with a gun.

It's basically coming from the feminine point of view, not a logical examination of fact. That won't likely be exposed to her much as the argument is simply one in an arsenal of statements used to defend her real position - that no harm should come to her son.

Many women express their concern in ways that don't really have anything to do with the real issues of guns - the lump all danger their progeny might be exposed to in the category of absolute separation. They say and do anything to keep them safe, it's part of their psychological makeup and has some serious drive behind it.

Good call on the OP's part, not the time and place to pick the fight. You have a good understanding and it will serve you well in married life.