Powder weight is kind of secondary..

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Katitmail

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Is anybody else like me? Trying to explain..

I do understand working up a load and careful approaching max. BUT. With that in mind - I don't really try to weight loads precisely.

With loading different calibers and having just one powder measure (Dillon) it was PITA to dial in load every time. I got UniqueTech micrometer adjustment mod for powder bar.

This thing is excellent, it allows you to return to previous setting and it really does it accurately. Now I use scales just to double-check but even developing loads - I go by micrometer. So, I did 4gr, I added "15" units - it somewhere around 4.2, added 15 units - it's about 4.5gr. Instead of trying to get precise weight - I just set micrometer to round numbers in steps. Next I chrono those loads and call it done when I hit velocity I need.

So, basically weight is important but to me it's more important to repeat charge when I need to easily. Now in my loading book I have approximate weight (can be +-0.1-02 gr) and micrometer setting.

I guess idea is similar to Lee disks but with full range of adjustment.
 
"I have approximate weight (can be +-0.1-02 gr) and micrometer setting."

Interesting. How do you confirm that .02 gr accuracy?
 
Typo, should be 0.1-0.2

I determine with scales. But not by waiting 3 hours to settle, I can tell pretty quick now when it's "there"
 
I use a Dillon 550b, and my solution is to have a different tool head for the cartridge I load. They stay setup with the charge I want. I may have to do so little adjustment, but I don't have to change out powder bars when going from .223 to .44 Mag.

Try having different caliber change kits. Makes things a lot easier.
 
I have the UT micrometer adjuster on all my Dillon powder measures. They are very nice, but I DO NOT trust the marks. 15 marks may equal .2gr of say Benchmark, but 15 marks may equal .4gr of AA2230, H335, WST, or Titegroup. Besides .2gr of Titegroup can mean the difference between a nice shooting load and a major KABOOM! I don't bat an eye over .1gr average difference when weighing 10 charges together, but when I drop 3.7gr of WST, I want 3.7gr! Not 3.8, or 3.9.
 
re: 3 hours. It is not "actual" time. All I'm saying it takes long.

I do have conversion kits but don't want to buy stands and powder measures for each head. Would be nice but space and $-wise prohibitive.

All my loads usually in a middle of range and extra .2gr with powders I use won't make kaboom. And yes, I'm aware about 10-20-30 not being linear on how powder actually drops.

All I'm saying that with micrometer I found quicker way to get back to setting I want. I do check but not as carefully as I was when "re-dialing" each load. I.e. I don't wait for scale to stabilize and don't do it many times. I put 4 drops on a scale, weight them and good to go.

Just sharing my personal findings. I'm reusing same powder now for 3 calibers I load and quickly readjusting drop is what I always wanted.
 
Btw, I really don't want to use powder where .1gr makes so big difference :) I don't think I trust any powder drop to be that precise.

With Unique and 9mm I think it was like 1gr difference for 100fps.

With W231 and 9mm it was 50fps per 0.2gr step when I was developing load.
 
I don't mind a .3 difference when loading plinking loads for .223. It is not over max with the charge I am using, and I have seen the same variance on factory loads.

None of the powder I use with the charges I am throwing will go over with a .3 +/-, and I don't really see it when shooting.
For loading hunting rounds in .25-06 I uses an arbor press with hand dies. I don't load large lots of .25-06, and I weigh out each load to be right on. Because there are times I might shoot 300+ yards, but to be honest. I have found a factory load that shoots wonderful in .25-06 so I don't always reload for it. The Winchester Supreme Silver Tips in 115 grain are the most accurate load I have shot out of my rifle.
I have to shoot up some RL-19 and IMR4350 before I buy some Win 780.

I also did a test, and in my tests the primers made more of a difference in accuracy than the actual powder or powder charge.
 
I use a Dillon Square Deal and a Dillion beam scale. No micrometer on the powder measure adjustment screw. Only load 9mm and 45 ACP. When changing calibers or powder type it takes only a few minutes to adjust the charge weight. What helps me is that on the wall I have a piece of paper that says, turn the screw this way to increase the charge weight and that way to decrease it. For some reason my mind has never been able to remember something this simple.
 
I also use a Dillon SDB, but i purchased a MRDial knob to use instead of the screw head. It allows me to adjust to a near precise load change. One number increment is nearly .1 grain change. Makes it real simple to change loads.;)

I normally do not use Max or Min loads, this allows for any variance in the powder drop to keep me safe.:eek::D

I Confirm the load on my Gempro 250 that reads to .02 grains.

As mentioned already, when loading 9mm, .1 or .2 grain does change the velocity and pressure if you are near max it may be very important to monitor what you are doing.
 
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I guess I see what you're saying but I like for my weights to be very precise.

You're also the guy that doesn't need manuals too though, right?

Im just picking at you, I remember that thread for some reason.
 
Weight vs Volume

There is considerable support for the contention that weight variations are less important to accuracy than volume variations. Have a look at this thread on another forum.

Effects of Tiny Variations

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/924102918?r=924102918#924102918

paying attention to the posts from these:

quoted by wboggs
http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/dec96reloadrecipes.html

Rat Motor jagter and wboggs

http://www.shootingsoftware.com/loadens.htm

Food for thought.

I think weight has become the standard way of expressing recipes because it is easier to express (and measure consistently) than volume.

Lost Sheep
 
I guess I see what you're saying but I like for my weights to be very precise.

You're also the guy that doesn't need manuals too though, right?

Im just picking at you, I remember that thread for some reason.
You remember because you were just starting and it was different view ;)

I still don't use them. Just for reference. I have Lyman 49 and I use it to get "base" weight. From that - I just take it in .2gr increments and chrono. I got even lazier and follow advice from this forum. Now I take middle of the reccomended range and start from there.
 
I'm of the opinion that volume is more important than weight. Before you crucify me, let me explain.

You throw a charge from a measure and weigh it to ensure it is within the accepted standards of published data. You find one of these charges that performs well in your rifle with a particular case, bullet, primer and OAL. You make a whole bunch of them and shoot to your little hearts' content.

Now you've got a bunch of empty cases and components. You are usually better off throwing charges from the measure at the same volumetric setting, rather than changing it ever so slightly to gain or reduce that tenth of a grain from the last lot of powder.

Modern powders are remarkably consistent. With this consistency, you can usually get better accuracy by verifying a given volume is within published data by a margin and sticking with it.

For example, I use a LEE measure. The settings are in cubic centimeters. I throw a charge, verify it is the 26.something grains I am looking for and test it. It comes back accurate in my rifle, so the next time I load for .223, I set the measure to the same setting, verify by scale there are no wild variations, but make no adjustment to repeat exact weight. Withing a tenth or two I'm still well within accepted data and filling the case to the same volume as my initial load.

I find a scale necessary to verify I am not deviating from published data, am not losing my mind and substituting another powder (keep a notebook) or otherwise having a bad day. But technically I load by volume with a scale merely as a check system.
 
When I started out many moons ago my pop was there watching my every move. We loaded up our ammo on his Wells press, and weighed each charge out with the Wells scale. This thing would take forever to finally balance in between the small lines and finally settle on that all important middle one.

As I progressed he would show me a little shortcut here and there, like the awesome, set your thumb under the beam of the scale, so that it only had to travel half the distance and would settle out in 1/4 of the time. Wow we got some stuff loaded then. To me that little step was akin to having a progressive press.

He also schooled me on the fact that with most powders, within a certain burn range, .02 grains usually meant nothing to the final load or group. Shooter error and climate conditions would usually throw more rounds out of a groups than the small spread would. This was when we started to use a powder measure to start throwing some of the charges instead of weighing each of them out. Granted with the little Wells measure we had at the time this really only worked well with ball powder period. The little drum and short arm on the measure left a LOT to be desired when trying to cut through just about any stick powder.

Granted this all went on back before I was a teenager, and plenty of these finer details were erased from memory once I found out that girls were not actually contagious. Then again we were usually only loading for three calibers through those early years anyway and the '06 was usually the most loaded.

In the mid to late 80's I was shooting several more calibers, and making trips the the range on a weekly if not more basis. I would load up sometimes several boxes of ammo and go sit shooting them in small incremental increased batches until I had worked through a range of a particular powder. All the while I was picking up little tid bits of knowledge form the BR shooters who also shot there. It was them who blasted through the fog in my brain and got me back into throwing my charges again.

Like some of them, I made up a chart, somewhat like a load map. I had my Uniflow set up for quick mounting with a C-clamp. So I sat down one weekend and with just about all of the usual powders I worked with, and depending on what it was, I started with around 5grs or so lower than the lowest charge weight I would ever use and weighed them incrementally up through about 5 grains higher than I would ever use, and I jotted down the low and high end settings form the stem of the measure. Now I have a nice page of powders, and spreads to which I can quickly find an area to start off with, when working up loads. When I find a particular load I am looking for I jot down the measure setting for future reference. It might look like the, .308 150gr Nosler, Powder - 42.5grs Rel 15 at 4+ 3.5 turns. ( the preceding load information was simply pulled out of the air as an example do not use it for actual load data.) This gives me a starting point so that I am well within the charge range for the load I am looking for. Granted powders do change in weight even the same brand and type from a different lot. But I can set the measure and dump charges to verify on the scale and adjust very quickly one way or the other to hit the desired weight I am after.

With all of my Uniflow measures the stem has incremental numbers on a nice flat side. I found that it is around 5 full revolutions to get from one number to the next. Each turn can be easily broken into what ever ratio I find necessary. I normally use 1/4 to 1/8 turns depending on how fine grained the powder is I am working with or how dense it might be. Some powders weigh more than others for a given amount volumn wise.

This has worked out for me through many years of loading and most of my loads will usually shoot within 1" easily at 100yds and some well within that at 200 and sometimes beyond depending on conditions. I still DO weigh up charges but only to verify the actual loads I am throwing. After I dump 5-8 charges and they all hit the weight I am after I go for it using the Uniflow for what it was made for.
 
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