Volokh Conspiracy and Negro Gun Ownership

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NickEllis

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An interesting series on the Volokh Conspiracy, recently moved to the Washington Post website, treating the black ownership of firearms. Some good quotes here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...roes-and-the-gun-the-black-tradition-of-arms/
Over the next four days I will give a sampling of this, beginning tomorrow with detail including the generally unacknowledged planning and practice of armed fugitive slaves and freemen who embraced Fredrick Douglass’s advice that a good revolver was the best answer to the Fugitive Slave laws.

And previously here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...he-early-naacp-championed-armed-self-defense/
Dubois continued to champion armed self-defense as a core private interest. Indeed, in some instances, Dubois seemed to cast self-defense as a duty. After a lynching in Gainesville, Fla., he wrote: “No Colored man can read an account of the recent lynching in Gainesville without being ashamed of his people. Without resistance they let a white mob whom they outnumbered two to one, torture, harry and murder. In the last analysis lynching of Negroes is going to stop when the cowardly mob is faced by effective guns in the hands of people determined to sell their souls dearly."

For Wells and for many of her contemporaries — the “New Negroes” of the late nineteenth century — the Winchester Rifle was a potent rhetorical tool. At a meeting of the Afro-American Press Association, fiery editor of the New York Age, T. Thomas Fortune, spurred by a recent spate of lynchings erupted, “We have cringed and crawled long enough. I don’t want any more ‘good ******s.’ I want ‘bad ******s.’ It’s the ‘bad ******’ with the Winchester who can defend his home and child and wife.” W. A. Pledger of the Atlanta Age followed Fortune on the dais and affirmed the sentiments of the group that terrorists were “afraid to lynch us where they know the Black man is standing behind the door with a Winchester.”

And here:http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...and-the-gun-a-winchester-in-every-black-home/
Surveying the landscape in the summer of 1892, Ida B. Wells advised, that “the Winchester rifle deserved a place of honor in every Black home.” This was no empty rhetorical jab. She was advancing a considered personal security policy and specifically referencing two recent episodes where armed Blacks saved their neighbors from lynch mobs.

(eta: apparently THR doesn't like quotes from I.B. Wells)
 
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I used to be very active in usenet discussion groups.

BEYOND DOUBT, the second most racist group of posters I EVER encountered in usenet were White anti-gunners. They "authorized" themselves to be racist, anti-Semitic AND homophobic because they were... "LIBERAL". They were "liberal" alright... with racial slurs. These they of course dismissed as "politically incorrect".

Only self-avowed neo-Nazis were more bigoted and hate filled... and then not by much.

A lot of anti-gunners aren't afraid of guns.

They're afraid of BLACK people with guns.
 
A lot of anti-gunners aren't afraid of guns.

They're afraid of BLACK people with guns.
When the Black Panthers started openly carrying guns around in California in '67, the legislature was quick to follow by banning open carry. (I find it amusing that it passed with bipartisan support.)
 
When the Black Panthers started openly carrying guns around in California in '67, the legislature was quick to follow by banning open carry. (I find it amusing that it passed with bipartisan support.)

And sadly they passed that with the backing of the NRA, which is a huge problem for us to overcome. It came up over and over again during the Sandy Hook debates, that the NRA was racist because it supported disarming the Black Panthers.
 
It is an unfortunate thing that the deaths of voluntary politicians is more important then the rights of the people. Dead voluntary politicians can always be replaced, the rights of the people not so much.
 
owen said:
And sadly they passed that with the backing of the NRA, which is a huge problem for us to overcome. It came up over and over again during the Sandy Hook debates, that the NRA was racist because it supported disarming the Black Panthers.

Many of the Black Panthers in my area have rap sheets a mile long. So I am perfectly fine with those members being disarmed.
 
And sadly they passed that with the backing of the NRA, which is a huge problem for us to overcome. It came up over and over again during the Sandy Hook debates, that the NRA was racist because it supported disarming the Black Panthers.
Times and organizations change. Do not hold me responsible for the sins of my parents. Unfortunately we usually do have to pay for them.
 
Many of the Black Panthers in my area have rap sheets a mile long. So I am perfectly fine with those members being disarmed.

And how many of those convictions are for non-violent crimes things like carrying a concealed firearm, or possession of a joint? While the NRA now is a different organization than the NRA in the 60s (I bet every single board member from the 60s has passed on) when the anti gunners say the NRA is racist, for once they have a factual event to point at.

How many people bring that up in the "black folk don't:" video? http://youtu.be/LcNbheN5a-c

I think its something the NRA really needs to work on, and has made some progress with Colion Noir, but there is a long way to go.
 
... the NRA was racist because it supported disarming the Black Panthers.

Oh, brother. "Because they were black." That's not playing the race card, is it? I'm sure that it had nothing to do with them being a bunch of criminal thugs.
 
Oh, brother. "Because they were black." That's not playing the race card, is it? I'm sure that it had nothing to do with them being a bunch of criminal thugs.

First point, perception is reality.
Second point. An awful lot of the black panthers platform was around be allowed to protect their community from a marauding government. sound familiar?
 
I think that you've been spending too much time at Nick's. ;)

First point: If "perception is reality" and I perceive you to be full of horse-hockey then you are, in fact, full of horse-hockey.

Second point: " ... the black panthers platform was around be allowed to protect their community from a marauding government ... ". Then I (as a Scots-Irish/Germano-American) should be thinking of Machine Gun Kelley and John Dillinger as being freedom-fighters.

Does that about some it up?
 
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Have you listened to much rap "music"? You'd want that type disarmed, too, if they were purple polka dotted.
 
owen said:
And how many of those convictions are for non-violent crimes things like carrying a concealed firearm, or possession of a joint? While the NRA now is a different organization than the NRA in the 60s (I bet every single board member from the 60s has passed on) when the anti gunners say the NRA is racist, for once they have a factual event to point at.

Non violent offenses on the Black Panther's rap sheets is icing on the cake. The cake itself is arson, murder, extortion, death threats, and armed robbery. I have many friends on the police force and they all describe the Black Panthers in this area the same way: a gang with a Facebook page. When my son was born, the top BP in the state said to his followers at a rally to kill every white newborn they could find in hospitals to make up for all the black children killed. Hospital lockdowns all over the state are fun for a new dad.

The NRA has come a long way from its racist upbringings. And I am willing to bet Colin Noir is not their only black member.
 
"An awful lot of the black panthers platform was around be allowed to protect their community from a marauding government. sound familiar?"
Yeah, sounds an awful lot like equally unacceptable fanatical groups devoted to holing up in compounds, tattooing crooked crosses on their faces, or heckling mourners. None of these extremists is particularly sympathetic to anyone hoping to live in a cohesive civilization. Defense is one thing, offense quite another. The Panthers formed from and played at the former, but were rightly infamous for the latter (though that aspect was played up greatly by the press).

What I take issue with is that the "rap sheets" aren't what are used --rightfully so if truly the case-- to lock dangerous people up, and instead 'shortcut' laws are made to circumvent previously agreed-upon covenants on acceptable behavior to persecute the undesirables of the moment. Lots of unintended consequences when you operate that way. If the Panthers really are raping and pillaging the town, why not bring them in on that? If they really are just following officers around armed as the law had allowed them to do to monitor their activities around sympathetic protests, as the law had allowed them to do? What is the problem in that instance? And if there is none, why make a law prohibiting that acceptable behavior?

"I have many friends on the police force and they all describe the Black Panthers in this area the same way: a gang with a Facebook page"
1) What gang doesn't these days? :rolleyes:
2) I'd bet an awful lot of cops feel the same about any organized political group of armed men*

"The NRA has come a long way from its racist upbringings."
Elaboration? I mean, it was formed by a bunch of white guys as opposed to black guys, but that doesn't necessarily equate to racism. I've never seen anything suggesting that was ever the aim or purpose uniting the organization. Honestly, their repugnant endorsement of the ban on open carry in CA was probably a protest of widespread societal turmoil as much as anything uniquely racial. Especially seeing how even-handed the organization was in many instances in the deep Jim Crow south at that time and historically.

I think what really gets lost in all this is how the notion of organized armed men weighs on the powers that be, like the Bonus Army and numerous other similar incidents. In every one, some very terrified politicians made very short-sighted and unconstitutional decisions in the name of the common good to better protect their sorry butts. Whether you think the BP protests (alone) were legal, it is foolish to ignore the impact they had.

The state's/nation's governments were transfixed on these terrifying black men wielding power equal to the police; regardless of history or politics, it should be a chilling reminder just how effective a deterrent the RKBA is at controlling governmental behavior. The lesson should be had to use that influence to illicit a desired response, rather than a panicked response that ultimately benefits no one.

TCB

*I say 'armed men' simply because I'm unaware of a protest movement or major conflict involving dissident armed women. For all I know, the reaction would be different. Armed men have a very direct connotation; soldiers and war, which bring up very primal responses in people.
 
I'm not talking about the 2014 Black Panthers. I'm talking about the 1960s Black Panther, a completely different group. The New Black Panther Party is largely Nation of Islam folks.

I'm not saying the 1960s Black Panthers were saints by any means, they weren't. They did in the end, have an awful lot of convictions among their senior leadership.

However, if you go read their 10 points, there is quite a bit of common ground there with Joe GunOwner in 2014. Unless of course you do think that cops should be more abusive towards black people, should have imprison black people and a drastically higher fraction than white people who have convicted of the same crime, that black people should be segregated by force of law and custom into ghettos.

Reading up on them this morning, it sounds like their educational programs may have been onto something. Oh, they also had anti-drug programs. hrm.

You should really go do some reading on the Black Panther Party of the 60s.

Of note, their public displays of open carry, and rubbing that open carry practice in people's faces, successfully got open carry of loaded weapons banned in CA, with the support of the NRA.

1) Why was the NRA supporting that?
2) Because the law was in specific response to Black Panther protests, it puts the seed in to black people's heads that the NRA is racist whether it is or not. The perception is all that matters. Until the perception is overcome, the reality is that large numbers of black people, who in many ways should be a natural ally of the NRA, will perceive the NRA as not for them, will not engage the larger gun culture, and will generally oppose the NRA positions. All because of the perception of the NRA's racism. Perception is reality.
 
IMO 90% of the anti open carry and CCW was passed to disarm free men of color in the USA after the Civil War through the 1920's.
So, licensing handguns is a form of gun control. Gun control is racist. Obama, et al, are pro-gun control. Dear Leader and his flunkies are, therefore, racist.

Got it.
 
I was at an IPSC match back about 1980. 4 cops drove up in a black and white, 3 white cops got out, ended up shooting the match. They were offduty, but uniformed. One of the cops borrowed an offered 1911 and rig. The black cop stayed in the back seat. We asked him to come shoot, offered him ammo and gear, etc. He said "uh-uh". We asked him why? He said:" too many white men with guns here, talking about shooting ------s".
 
Yes the Black Panthers of the 60's and of today are different animals, pun not intended. The difference is mostly ideological since the classic Black Panthers were more likely to use violence for racial equality, the modern group is more focused on racial hatred. Many organizations started by catering to a select few but grow beyond stereotypes. The YMCA for example started as a Youth Male Christians Association, which is where they get the acronym from. Now I even hear they let women and black people in the door.
 
And how many of those convictions are for non-violent crimes things like carrying a concealed firearm, or possession of a joint? While the NRA now is a different organization than the NRA in the 60s (I bet every single board member from the 60s has passed on) when the anti gunners say the NRA is racist, for once they have a factual event to point at.

How many people bring that up in the "black folk don't:" video? http://youtu.be/LcNbheN5a-c

I think its something the NRA really needs to work on, and has made some progress with Colion Noir, but there is a long way to go.


I think accusing the NRA of being racist is rather self defeating! I know people who were NRA members during that time and they were not RACIST!

It wasn't all just Non-violent crimes and minor drug offences. If you know anything about the history of the Black Panthers, you are aware that they became involved in violence and murder as well as being accused of involvement in drugs, prostitution and other crimes, Huey Newton and Eldridge Cleaver both admitted their involvement in murder of police officers. And that is just what is available in the Wikipedia entry.

As far as a bunch of anti-gun control Democrats claim, I would remind you that the Democrat Party was the Party of slavery, the Jim Crow Laws, the Ku Klux Clan, elected KKK leaders to the Senate, filibustered the Civil Rights Laws, and the elected one of the leaders of those filibusters, and aforementioned KKK leader to the position of Senate Majority leader. So when they claim the NRA is racist, I would like to know where their (and your) moral authority comes from!

While many of the actions the Original Black Panther Party undertook were to help protect blacks against unjust police actions, they quickly degenerated into armed violence and crime.

I think perhaps you should do a little reading about the Black Panther Party, they weren't just a bunch of civil rights activist, in fact, that may have been the least of their legacy.
 
So, licensing handguns is a form of gun control. Gun control is racist. Obama, et al, are pro-gun control. Dear Leader and his flunkies are, therefore, racist.

Got it.
Damn STRAIGHT!

Some of my other reading shows that a lrage number of Black Activist Leaders
are openly questioning "O" and his approval ratings among blacks are down 20+
points from the peak. (96% to 75% in the article I saw) But KEY Support is eroding.
One group said he should just QUIT! RESIGN! Leave Office...
 
Blacks need ccw even more than us white folks do. Not only do they have to live with the gangbangers, they are too close in time to lynchings, etc, to be comfortable while unarmed.
 
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