siglite
Member
You cannot legislate away stupidity, nor can you legislate away crazy. All you can do is infringe on the liberties of the masses under the banner of "protecting them from" <insert rationale here>.
Is Constitutional Carry a good idea?
- Thread starter monotonous_iterancy
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You cannot legislate away stupidity, nor can you legislate away crazy. All you can do is infringe on the liberties of the masses under the banner of "protecting them from" <insert rationale here>.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Many states (most?) have no such class required as it is. And yet, there is no public safety problem or harm to society because of this.
Here in PA no class of any sort is required and yet there are ZERO calls for reform or elimination of our LCTF.
It is a boogeyman raised by folks who think it "should" be a problem, but it isn't a problem that actually EXISTS.
Salmoneye
Member
Being a native Vermonter and never having known any system other than 'constitutional carry', I can not understand when others seem to think that mandatory training will "weed out" any problems...
People are just not going around willy-nilly shooting each other here...
People are just not going around willy-nilly shooting each other here...
Ivy Mike
Member
NV already has no law against open carry so I can pack whatever the hell I want as long as everyone can see it.
I would have to get a permit to conceal a handgun but that permit signifies that I understand the laws of my state regarding the use of a gun in defense and that I have demonstrated I am capable of handling the deadly weapon I strap to my belt.
Can't say it bothers me to have to get a permit, especially considering the gravity and potential legal issues of carrying that gun. Quite frankly, I didn't bother renewing my permit and I don't carry anymore.
I know I'll catch some flak but I don't consider the 2nd amendment to be absolute.
I would have to get a permit to conceal a handgun but that permit signifies that I understand the laws of my state regarding the use of a gun in defense and that I have demonstrated I am capable of handling the deadly weapon I strap to my belt.
Can't say it bothers me to have to get a permit, especially considering the gravity and potential legal issues of carrying that gun. Quite frankly, I didn't bother renewing my permit and I don't carry anymore.
I know I'll catch some flak but I don't consider the 2nd amendment to be absolute.
Why does it matter if a gun that ends up being used was carried openly or concealed? The same laws regarding justified use of force apply either way.
You sound like you are OK with the way NV is, why is open carry fine without a permit and concealed carry not?
You sound like you are OK with the way NV is, why is open carry fine without a permit and concealed carry not?
Ivy Mike
Member
Yes I'm OK with NV the way it is. It provides citizens a way to still carry a gun without having to pay for a class and permit. It is a legal method to avoid paying a tax.
I feel most people with concealed carry permits are woefully undertrained but that is another matter.
gamestalker
member
Not only is it a good idea, it's a reality, and I support it 100%.
If thugs can carry, I think it's only common sense that law abiding citizens should have the constitutional right to defend their selves, and without having to get a permit. The state of Arizona seems to agree with that.
An angry exchange or words, is just that.
GS
"When seconds count, the police are minutes away"
If thugs can carry, I think it's only common sense that law abiding citizens should have the constitutional right to defend their selves, and without having to get a permit. The state of Arizona seems to agree with that.
An angry exchange or words, is just that.
GS
"When seconds count, the police are minutes away"
NavyLCDR
member
Most people are capable of living their lives and handling their affairs without government assistance.
This is a hard pill for some people to swallow.
Especially since a pill like that is not covered by Obamacare!
CoalTrain49
Member
I'm going to have to disagree with this.
Does one not learn anything about how our gov't works in high school? I can say I had a pretty good idea about our system of gov't and my responsibility as a citizen when I graduated. Most people get some high school classes now days with civics. If you decide to not vote, which a lot of people do, it's not because of a lack of educational opportunities.
If you become a citizen from another country you have to pass a written and oral test with lots of civics related questions.
So the system is in place to educate the public. All the classes in the world aren't going to get some people up to speed.
siglite
Member
I assume then that you advocate licensing and governmental blessing in the form of a fee and a database check as a prerequisite for posting on THR?
Unless you happen to live in Philadelphia. Where the world is just a touch different.
Id like some reform or eliminate the requirement for a LTCF.
PiratePenguin
Member
I think basic firearm safety should be taught in schools. We teach kids how to be safe with "stop, drop and roll", Mr. Yuck, and swimming lessons, right?
arizona_cards_11
Member
Nanny-state paternalist. 
I am a believer in individual freedom/rights. One example is the 2nd Amendment. Wyoming has chosen to allow me to carry a concealed firearm without a permit, classes, training, etc. beyond something like a hunter's safety calss. The only restrictions are "forbidden establishments". It certainly amazes me how so many pro 2nd Amendement people would be in favor of further restricting the rights and privledges already granted to me by my state. Unless of course, we are talking a national carry permit with no attached regulations, requirements, restrictions, etc.
brboyer
Member
We actually already have one: ". . . the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
JustinJ
Member
Its true that people who intend to use guns to commit crimes tend to disregard laws against carrying them. However, all illegal use of firearms aren't done by people who intended to do so. The guy in florida who shot the guy for texting did not wake up in the morning and decide he was going to commit murder. The real question, I think, is if required training regarding the use of CC weapons actually sinks in on the dotes who end up disregarding it anyways.
brboyer
Member
You cannot 'train' stupid out of folks. Stupid people will ALWAYS do stupid stuff.
There is no training in my state. You are allowed to OC if you are allowed to own the gun, and CC with permit. Constitutional carry (and purchase, IMO) is good. If you're not trustworthy enough to have a gun, you're not trustworthy enough to be in public.
megatronrules
Member
I'm for permitless carry some people don't have the time or money for a training class. That being said I think owning a gun is a big responsibility and anyone who chooses to do so needs to learn the laws and safe handling aspects.
However I don't feel that the state should be able to mandate such things,before a right is exercised.
However I don't feel that the state should be able to mandate such things,before a right is exercised.
km101
Member
Constitutional carry is the ultimate goal.
"If one accepts that it simply isn't about keeping guns out of the wrong hands, because such a mission is folly, what is left as rationale for restriction? " siglite
Well said Sir!
"If one accepts that it simply isn't about keeping guns out of the wrong hands, because such a mission is folly, what is left as rationale for restriction? " siglite
Well said Sir!
JRH6856
Member
This. And if people behave irresponsibly, there should be laws to deal with them after they do so, not before.
herrwalther
Member
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Growing up in Vermont I saw the best and worst of permitless carry. The pros are everything you imagine. The cons are you can have some fellow wander in on their 21st birthday, buy a firearm/ammo/holster and throw it on their belt without so much as glancing at the manual. On several instances I witnessed this happening, the 4 rules were crying in a corner. I am not advocating mandatory training classes by any means, but even a Youtube video on gun safety (for those that don't know it) is a better idea than buying a gun because it was used in Call of Duty.
Another downside of VT permit less carry is it is not recognized by any other state. I can't recall which of the other states handle it but I believe some have permits for carry in other states.
Another downside of VT permit less carry is it is not recognized by any other state. I can't recall which of the other states handle it but I believe some have permits for carry in other states.
siglite
Member
The optimum scenario is permitless constitutional carry within the borders of your own state, and the retention of some permit system to allow those who wish to take advantage of reciprocity agreements between states.
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